Why would you buy a high-end gas car now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming into this thread now: because, in 2021, gasoline cars are the default choice. They have existed as a widely purchased consumer product for over a century. Current ones are reliable, and there is a large infrastructure in place to refuel and service them. Failure modes are well known and well understood, as is the long-term cost of ownership. Unlike, say, Tesla, there are no forced firmware updates that change the car's behavior, and most gas-powered cars don't have telemetry systems to send the owner's driving data back to the manufacturer. My mechanic (whom I have known and trusted for years) can repair virtually any gas car. I doubt that he would be able to do the same with an electric equivalent.

For the average car owner (e.g. me), there would have to be a compelling advantage to get me to buy an electric car. That could be less maintenance, signficantly lower cost of ownership over the life of the car, or something else. We're not there yet. Right now, I look at electric cars and just see range limitations and unknown future repair expenses.

Also, I live in an apartment and park on the street. I have no easy way to charge an electric car, so someone will need to figure out that one.

I'm 45. I didn't think that I would ever buy an electric car. Now, I think that I will someday, particularly as the charging and repair infrastructure grows. But we aren't there yet. And, yes, I have a landline telephone at home because it is more reliable and has better sound quality than the "modern" alternatives. So, ask me the same question in 10-20 years, and you'll probably get a different answer. One unknown at this point is the ability of the electric grid to support wide use of electric cars, but I'm not an expert in that.

Spot on. I am 55. I agree I did not think I would ever get an electric car but I can possibly see getting one in 10 or 20 years. I do think that is the time frame for widespread acceptance.

I'm 54 and we've had a hybrid for 12 years and an electric for 5 years. Every new car will be electric. It is so much fun to drive. Awesome car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Cause there's no electric car in the world as sexy as my Z4

I used to have one of those. You need to test drive a Tesla. OMG!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I don’t want an electric car. I don’t want to have to plan my trip to charge my car.

This.

I laugh every time people post this ignorant petroleum lobbying line.. You have no experience and no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Its not comparing apples to oranges. Because it still takes a lot to generate the electricity you use for the car. Who wants to be bothered with all that? Also, not everyone wants to spend $50K on a vehicle and if I do, I want a fun car, not a boring sedan. Your 30K miles a year vs. mine aren't comparable so yes, you should drive an electric, but telling everyone who has different driving habits is silly.

And, with covid, I'm not going to a mall and we work at home so your suggestions are silly. I'm not risking covid to please someone when my actual footprint is low.

Generating the electricity for the car is less harmful for the environment than burning gasoline, so that's not a great argument against the concept of EVs. Not every electric car costs $50,000. And you don't actually have to into a mall to charge your car at a fast-charging station that's located there -- we've charged at Walmart parking lots and never gotten out of the car except to plug in and unplug. It sounds like you don't drive much, so you'd have to charge even less often.

I wouldn't tell anyone to go out and replace their existing car with an electric one, no matter what powers it. But if you're getting a brand-new one, none of your objections to electric cars really seem to be insurmountable.

Exactly. Nobody is asking anyone to go buy an electric car pronto because the carbon footprint police said so. Keep your car, nobody is shaming you into driving electric, it’s all in your head. The discussion is around new buyers that have the option to go gas or electric. There are many good reasons to go electric and few to go with gas. From all you said the only part I agree with is the inconvenience of charging for street parking. The rest are non issues. Try to be open to the arguments not as to your specific case since tbh nobody cares about, but for an average driver.
Regarding the price, the total cost of ownership for a base model $37k Tesla 3 is about the same as for a $25k gas car (that’s your Camry, Accord, Sonata). In my view this is a good comparison and one of the reasons electric will win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Who installed your charger? We just got a quote for $4200!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Its not comparing apples to oranges. Because it still takes a lot to generate the electricity you use for the car. Who wants to be bothered with all that? Also, not everyone wants to spend $50K on a vehicle and if I do, I want a fun car, not a boring sedan. Your 30K miles a year vs. mine aren't comparable so yes, you should drive an electric, but telling everyone who has different driving habits is silly.

And, with covid, I'm not going to a mall and we work at home so your suggestions are silly. I'm not risking covid to please someone when my actual footprint is low.

Generating the electricity for the car is less harmful for the environment than burning gasoline, so that's not a great argument against the concept of EVs. Not every electric car costs $50,000. And you don't actually have to into a mall to charge your car at a fast-charging station that's located there -- we've charged at Walmart parking lots and never gotten out of the car except to plug in and unplug. It sounds like you don't drive much, so you'd have to charge even less often.

I wouldn't tell anyone to go out and replace their existing car with an electric one, no matter what powers it. But if you're getting a brand-new one, none of your objections to electric cars really seem to be insurmountable.

How much you use your car is equally important. You can justify it by saying electric is cleaner but if you drive 30K miles its not going to be cleaner than someone driving under 5K with gas. And, creating electricity isn't always clean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Who installed your charger? We just got a quote for $4200!!!!!

Just do a 30A dryer receptacle. It is about 1 hour worth of work, a lot of houses even have one in the garage. Tesla come with an adapter for that plug. Call any electrician, shop around, I got offers 500 to 1500. Don’t mention it’s for an electric car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Who installed your charger? We just got a quote for $4200!!!!!

Just do a 30A dryer receptacle. It is about 1 hour worth of work, a lot of houses even have one in the garage. Tesla come with an adapter for that plug. Call any electrician, shop around, I got offers 500 to 1500. Don’t mention it’s for an electric car.

It’s called Nema 14-50, There’s some informational material on the Tesla site too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Its not comparing apples to oranges. Because it still takes a lot to generate the electricity you use for the car. Who wants to be bothered with all that? Also, not everyone wants to spend $50K on a vehicle and if I do, I want a fun car, not a boring sedan. Your 30K miles a year vs. mine aren't comparable so yes, you should drive an electric, but telling everyone who has different driving habits is silly.

And, with covid, I'm not going to a mall and we work at home so your suggestions are silly. I'm not risking covid to please someone when my actual footprint is low.

Generating the electricity for the car is less harmful for the environment than burning gasoline, so that's not a great argument against the concept of EVs. Not every electric car costs $50,000. And you don't actually have to into a mall to charge your car at a fast-charging station that's located there -- we've charged at Walmart parking lots and never gotten out of the car except to plug in and unplug. It sounds like you don't drive much, so you'd have to charge even less often.

I wouldn't tell anyone to go out and replace their existing car with an electric one, no matter what powers it. But if you're getting a brand-new one, none of your objections to electric cars really seem to be insurmountable.

How much you use your car is equally important. You can justify it by saying electric is cleaner but if you drive 30K miles its not going to be cleaner than someone driving under 5K with gas. And, creating electricity isn't always clean.

Nobody really cares if you personally get an electric car, do your 5k miles a year however you want, even by steam engine if you’d like. We get it, you don’t drive enough so a new car is worth it for you. There’s no honor badge for having a smaller carbon footprint with a 5k miles a year gas car than the neighbor with the electric car that is doing 30000 miles a year. What does your argument even prove, especially for someone weighing gas vs electric in their next purchase? Nothing, it’s a useless point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people complaining about how long it takes to charge an electric car. Rent a Tesla, take a road trip. Decide if it’s inconvenient or not for your lifestyle. The amount of baseless speculation is just ridiculous.

Why? Can't we just keep going with our gas or hybrid vehicles?

Of course you can, nobody is stopping you.

PP was just pointing out that all the people who have never even driven an electric car much less taken one on a long trip confidently saying "trips are too hard in an electric car" are basically being the automotive equivalent of a toddler who has never a certain food before saying "no I hate it!" before they've even tried it.

Not everyone has access to easy charging and its not just about electric vs. gas buy how you drive and how much. If you drive 30-50K miles a year on electric you aren't being more environmental than someone driving 8K a year in a gas car.

But you are comparing apples to oranges here. The question of the OP was on someone looking to buy a new car and chosing gas or electric, and the person would drive the same number of miles with either car. Not having easy access to charging at home is a valid point. If you have a carport you might be ok. In the first two weeks of ownership I charged my Tesla 3 with a 110V outlet overnight, which was enough for a 50 mile roundtrip commute. Having a 240V outlet installed is not that difficult and it costs about $500, and you'd be set. If it is street parking, you might need to sacrifice about 1 hour per week in charging, depending how much you drive. A lot of workplaces and shopping malls offer charging options, and that could solve your problem too.

Who installed your charger? We just got a quote for $4200!!!!!

Just do a 30A dryer receptacle. It is about 1 hour worth of work, a lot of houses even have one in the garage. Tesla come with an adapter for that plug. Call any electrician, shop around, I got offers 500 to 1500. Don’t mention it’s for an electric car.

That's good advice. It's hard to hide the electric car since it's parked in front of the non functional detached garage where I'd need the plug but I guess I could park it down the street. Garage is already powered with accessible conduit, we don't need any electrical upgrades, and the quote did not include trenching the new line they say we need, but just running above ground 30 feet. I only have a PHEV so it will never be worth that, but would add substantially to the true ownership cost of a true EV. Not sure how many tanks of gas that would be. I've found places around here also charge you $50 just to come out and give you that kind of news. This place had been noted as good and reasonably priced on nextdoor. So, specific recommendations welcome.

[Anonymous]

Here's where the cobalt in your EV's battery comes from:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's where the cobalt in your EV's battery comes from:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

The sad truth is EV drivers dont give a shit about the environment/human rights abuses. They only care about virtue-signalling or buying the latest gadgets. It's the iPhone crowd. Enjoy your environmentally-frienfly EV!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's where the cobalt in your EV's battery comes from:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

The sad truth is EV drivers dont give a shit about the environment/human rights abuses. They only care about virtue-signalling or buying the latest gadgets. It's the iPhone crowd. Enjoy your environmentally-frienfly EV!

Definitely no human rights abuses or environmental concerns in the petroleum industry at any point, either, you're totally right about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's where the cobalt in your EV's battery comes from:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

The sad truth is EV drivers dont give a shit about the environment/human rights abuses. They only care about virtue-signalling or buying the latest gadgets. It's the iPhone crowd. Enjoy your environmentally-frienfly EV!

Definitely no human rights abuses or environmental concerns in the petroleum industry at any point, either, you're totally right about that.

Yes, you're correct. So why are EV drivers not concerned about the environmental carnage and human rights abuses caused by EV battery development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's where the cobalt in your EV's battery comes from:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

The sad truth is EV drivers dont give a shit about the environment/human rights abuses. They only care about virtue-signalling or buying the latest gadgets. It's the iPhone crowd. Enjoy your environmentally-frienfly EV!

Definitely no human rights abuses or environmental concerns in the petroleum industry at any point, either, you're totally right about that.

Yes, you're correct. So why are EV drivers not concerned about the environmental carnage and human rights abuses caused by EV battery development?

Who said EV owners aren't concerned about battery development? Maybe they're making a decision that they value cutting greenhouse gas emissions more than preventing damage from mining rare metals. I don't think the fact that EVs also have some associated negatives should mean we just throw up our hands and stick with gas engines, though -- better to push to improve battery technology and human rights protections in that industry than to just sneer at people who buy EVs, isn't it?