Will Manchin and Sinema crack?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so over these two. Is this what they really want as their legacy- torpedoing Biden’s agenda and the chance to actually DO something?

Dunno. It could ensure their political survival given how unpopular Biden and the Democrats are right now. Approvals are sinking fast.

..+1

Not only that - they could be the saviors for other moderate Dems who know that a vote for this monstrosity means defeat for them.

Sinema is safe. The Arizona Dems don't have anyone who can challenge a sitting Senator and win and the Republican voters like her moxy.

Same with Manchin - he's not in danger of losing his seat. If he's challenged, a Republican will take it as simple as that.

They're both speaking up for Democrats who cannot say this and keep their seats - these payouts and extensive progressive wish list is too much all at once.

It should have been - expanded TANF, expanded ACA, stronger physical Infrastructure with high-speed networks, heavy on climate change, and some pre-K expansion.

This unicorn fairy of a $3.5 Trillion bill is worse than useless - its coming at the exact wrong time and contributing to the highest inflation we've seen in decades.

Manchin is safe, you are correct. Sinema though is not. Her approval among Dems and Independents is way under water. Her main support right now is from Republicans that wont vote for her anyway.

Expand TANF? Now that's a unicorn fairy. Community College and child care is a much better idea. The rest is what's in it (the immigration stuff was never getting past the parliamentarian).

Childcare doesn't exist, TANF does. Much easier for Congress to get away with expansions at every step. And no the rest is not what's in it. It's a $3.5 Trillion bloated welfare bill with only $900 billion set aside to directly combat climate change and energy. Then there's a seperate $900 billion bill specifically for infrastructure.

The Dems put everything in like a bunch of kids hiding under a skirt and they're surprised no one wants to pay for an extra $2 Trillion?

As for Sinema, I believe she's setting herself up to win regardless of party just like John McCain did when he won 60% of the Arizona vote. If she can get the same selection of moderate Dems and fiscal Conservatives on her side - she'll win.

That's clearly what she's trying to do. But, it's not working. She can't pull a McCain when she doesnt have any core principles. She's toast right now.

Her next election is in 2024. You think she cares? She has plenty of time to shore up support and by 2024 the House/Senate/Presidency will all be in play - so everyone else will be too worried about their own seats to be focused on her.

[Anonymous]

Do you really think all those Senate Dems want to spend that money? I bet there are at least five or ten who desperately don't want to vote for that package, but fear the Dem machine.

Sinema and Manchin are both in Senate seats that could go Red on a dime. And, they probably genuinely know that it is a bad bill.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Manchin. He's totally right - more welfare programs when Medicare and Social Security are already hanging on by a thread. What nonsense is this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think all those Senate Dems want to spend that money? I bet there are at least five or ten who desperately don't want to vote for that package, but fear the Dem machine.

Sinema and Manchin are both in Senate seats that could go Red on a dime. And, they probably genuinely know that it is a bad bill.

Bad faith argument. There is no net cost to this bill amd the debt ceiling is to pay for the REPUBLICAN TAX SCAM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you Manchin. He's totally right - more welfare programs when Medicare and Social Security are already hanging on by a thread. What nonsense is this?

He’s a republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think all those Senate Dems want to spend that money? I bet there are at least five or ten who desperately don't want to vote for that package, but fear the Dem machine.

Sinema and Manchin are both in Senate seats that could go Red on a dime. And, they probably genuinely know that it is a bad bill.

Bad faith argument. There is no net cost to this bill amd the debt ceiling is to pay for the REPUBLICAN TAX SCAM.

Dude, its $3.5 trillion and has almost zero to do with actual infrastructure. You can't argue your way out of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also voting blue to protect the republic from authoritarian rule and the end of our country as we know it. GOP sycophants seem to forget that.

They refuse to acknowledge that the GOP is authoritarian. How many times have you read a sentence like “the Democrats are the real authoritarians!”? Many times on this board. That tracks with their “understanding” of things like “communism,” “Marxism” and “socialism.” They don’t know what the hell those things are, either, but they’re certain Democrats are all of them simultaneously.

Oh, they know what those terms mean, and no one needs to be a GOP sycophant to understand that too many Democrats think money should be taken from the hard working middle class to pay for freebies that get votes.

Except what is actually happening is that the upper class is vacuuming money from across the board and leaving the middle class and poor to fend for the crumbs.

So this has been happening since the beginning of time.
Only difference is that with the squashing of mom ‘n pop operations and conglomeration of corporations into Amazon et al, now instead of “skimming” off the work of 10 employees, the wealthy are getting rich off of millions, therefore, they are that much richer.
Tell me how the poor are truly worse off than they have ever been?
Don’t trot out stats from 50s and 60s. That was artificial and unsustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you Manchin. He's totally right - more welfare programs when Medicare and Social Security are already hanging on by a thread. What nonsense is this?

He’s a republican.

He’s bought and paid for. The bill is ridiculously popular among his constituents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you Manchin. He's totally right - more welfare programs when Medicare and Social Security are already hanging on by a thread. What nonsense is this?

He’s a republican.

And yet he's right. Where's the money for Social Security? Because apparently we don't have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also voting blue to protect the republic from authoritarian rule and the end of our country as we know it. GOP sycophants seem to forget that.

They refuse to acknowledge that the GOP is authoritarian. How many times have you read a sentence like “the Democrats are the real authoritarians!”? Many times on this board. That tracks with their “understanding” of things like “communism,” “Marxism” and “socialism.” They don’t know what the hell those things are, either, but they’re certain Democrats are all of them simultaneously.

Oh, they know what those terms mean, and no one needs to be a GOP sycophant to understand that too many Democrats think money should be taken from the hard working middle class to pay for freebies that get votes.

Aw, you’re so cute to think that 400K is “middle class.”

You're mighty precious yourself if you think Democrats haven't raised taxes on folks making less than $400,000 over the years. Wealthy D3mocrats like Nancy Pelosi aren't worrying at all about the true middle class.

Like when, for instance?

Like, how old are you that you have to ask?!😉

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think all those Senate Dems want to spend that money? I bet there are at least five or ten who desperately don't want to vote for that package, but fear the Dem machine.

Sinema and Manchin are both in Senate seats that could go Red on a dime. And, they probably genuinely know that it is a bad bill.

Bad faith argument. There is no net cost to this bill amd the debt ceiling is to pay for the REPUBLICAN TAX SCAM.

Dude, its $3.5 trillion and has almost zero to do with actual infrastructure. You can't argue your way out of this.

Sure I can. The actual details are wildly popular among a majority of American citizens. I don’t care what they call the damn thing it is a good bill that will help our country and fellow citizens. If the only negative thing you can say about the bill is if the name fits then it must not be that bad or else you would be more specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think all those Senate Dems want to spend that money? I bet there are at least five or ten who desperately don't want to vote for that package, but fear the Dem machine.

Sinema and Manchin are both in Senate seats that could go Red on a dime. And, they probably genuinely know that it is a bad bill.

Bad faith argument. There is no net cost to this bill amd the debt ceiling is to pay for the REPUBLICAN TAX SCAM.

Dude, its $3.5 trillion and has almost zero to do with actual infrastructure. You can't argue your way out of this.

It's 3.5 trillion over ten years. The DOD spends that on toilet paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so over these two. Is this what they really want as their legacy- torpedoing Biden’s agenda and the chance to actually DO something?

Dunno. It could ensure their political survival given how unpopular Biden and the Democrats are right now. Approvals are sinking fast.

..+1

Not only that - they could be the saviors for other moderate Dems who know that a vote for this monstrosity means defeat for them.

Sinema is safe. The Arizona Dems don't have anyone who can challenge a sitting Senator and win and the Republican voters like her moxy.

Same with Manchin - he's not in danger of losing his seat. If he's challenged, a Republican will take it as simple as that.

They're both speaking up for Democrats who cannot say this and keep their seats - these payouts and extensive progressive wish list is too much all at once.

It should have been - expanded TANF, expanded ACA, stronger physical Infrastructure with high-speed networks, heavy on climate change, and some pre-K expansion.

This unicorn fairy of a $3.5 Trillion bill is worse than useless - its coming at the exact wrong time and contributing to the highest inflation we've seen in decades.

Manchin is safe, you are correct. Sinema though is not. Her approval among Dems and Independents is way under water. Her main support right now is from Republicans that wont vote for her anyway.

Expand TANF? Now that's a unicorn fairy. Community College and child care is a much better idea. The rest is what's in it (the immigration stuff was never getting past the parliamentarian).

Childcare doesn't exist, TANF does. Much easier for Congress to get away with expansions at every step. And no the rest is not what's in it. It's a $3.5 Trillion bloated welfare bill with only $900 billion set aside to directly combat climate change and energy. Then there's a seperate $900 billion bill specifically for infrastructure.

The Dems put everything in like a bunch of kids hiding under a skirt and they're surprised no one wants to pay for an extra $2 Trillion?

As for Sinema, I believe she's setting herself up to win regardless of party just like John McCain did when he won 60% of the Arizona vote. If she can get the same selection of moderate Dems and fiscal Conservatives on her side - she'll win.

That's clearly what she's trying to do. But, it's not working. She can't pull a McCain when she doesnt have any core principles. She's toast right now.

+1. McCain was a war hero who stood for core values ad didn’t waiver. Her was respected. Sinema can’t even decide if she’s straight or gay.

[Anonymous]

Seriously, you could cut two aircraft from the DOD budget and pay for most of this. Just crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you Manchin. He's totally right - more welfare programs when Medicare and Social Security are already hanging on by a thread. What nonsense is this?

He’s a republican.

He’s bought and paid for. The bill is ridiculously popular among his constituents.

He's principled.
And, while a few of the items in the bill may be popular with his constituents, I am certain the bill as a whole is not.
More importantly, he can explain to his constituents why he will not vote for it and what he expects to see in bills coming out of Congress.
He is 100% correct.