The cruelty and misogyny of forced birth politics

[Anonymous]

Violence is always criminal.
Dismantling the limbs of a human life is violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Violence is always criminal.
Dismantling the limbs of a human life is violence.

Forcing a woman to do something with her body against her will is violence.

Pro-birthers are just as bad as rapists.

[Anonymous]

I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

[Anonymous]

I am not only pro-abortion, but also…well the rest of what I’m really thinking would get me banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Using the pill and IUD kept me child free, thankfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Using the pill and IUD kept me child free, thankfully.

An unhealthy percentage of the GOP legislators writing these anti-abortion laws consider IUDs as equivalent to abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Why limit yourself to “those” doctors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Why limit yourself to “those” doctors?

Why the F should anyone have to go around and beg doctors for health care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Why limit yourself to “those” doctors?

Why the F should anyone have to go around and beg doctors for health care?

Which doctor did you have to beg? Zip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

This forum is largely privileged UMC folks, including myself. But lots of folks commit suicide.

The poor and miserable in this country are absolutely killing themselves. Look at the overdose rate. Look at the rates of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders. And in my circles at least, this includes several people who were adoptees. It appears that even a loving home can’t save folks from the fundamental trauma of not being wanted.

I think pro-choice people who want abortion to be accessible (or at least early abortion) and use pain and suffering of unwanted kids and our inability to care for them as an argument aren't talking about the problems of the privileged. Not to minimize suicide and addiction that also can exist among the affluent, but this isn't what it's about.

The focus is on much more dire circumstances many of these kids have to experience that makes their lives not only miserable but also quite short.
1) Babies born to addicted mothers, babies already born with addictions or other birth defects who require medical help
2) kids who end up moved through the system and are vulnerable to physical and sexual abuse and the worst of it - child trafficking. Unwanted kids are much easier targets for child traffickers, they aren't missed when they are missing, it's a fact.
3) Kids who go through the foster home pipeline straight into the prison pipeline or skid row to due addiction issues or mental illness or maladjustment from trauma.
4) Kids who are so neglected they lack the basics, those whose addicted mothers decide to keep them and raise them when abortion is denied. I have seen such kids and it's a very disturbing thing I will never forget. Why don't you ask people who work in child services and the cops what they see before you spew nonsensical whataboutism about affluent and well cared for kids turning out to be unhappy "too" and somehow being on the same page overall as unwanted kids who don't get adopted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the pro-life folks, see the “cost of having an infant threads.” People have to budget for basic things like formula and clothes. You have rich folks buying clothes on Thredup for the baby because of how expensive childcare is.

But the thing is, women forced to bear children they don’t want aren’t necessarily going to treat them well, and even if they do, the woman and her existing children are going to suffer. It’s just an unnecessary nightmare all around.

pro choice = pro child abuse?

It’s a running theme that is sickening. Not all pro choice people think child abuse is ever an option.

You are being dense.

What happens is thus: people who are forced to have children they don't want resent them. It's human nature. The parents are angry, there's not enough money typically, there may have been a forced marriage.

They try to love these unwanted children they were forced to have, buy the gun the forced bithers put to their head wrecks the parent child relationship.

Nobody on this forum who has unhappy birth or family circumstances has committed suicide. If given a choice, they have continue life. Saying a baby should be killed rather than be born into possibly less then optimal circumstances is a ludicrous and false. If that were true, the unhappy people here would have ended their own lives. No one has a perfect life or childhood or is born into perfection. We don’t kill unhappy, poor people because their lives aren’t fabulous.

This forum is largely privileged UMC folks, including myself. But lots of folks commit suicide.

The poor and miserable in this country are absolutely killing themselves. Look at the overdose rate. Look at the rates of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders. And in my circles at least, this includes several people who were adoptees. It appears that even a loving home can’t save folks from the fundamental trauma of not being wanted.

I think pro-choice people who want abortion to be accessible (or at least early abortion) and use pain and suffering of unwanted kids and our inability to care for them as an argument aren't talking about the problems of the privileged. Not to minimize suicide and addiction that also can exist among the affluent, but this isn't what it's about.

The focus is on much more dire circumstances many of these kids have to experience that makes their lives not only miserable but also quite short.
1) Babies born to addicted mothers, babies already born with addictions or other birth defects who require medical help
2) kids who end up moved through the system and are vulnerable to physical and sexual abuse and the worst of it - child trafficking. Unwanted kids are much easier targets for child traffickers, they aren't missed when they are missing, it's a fact.
3) Kids who go through the foster home pipeline straight into the prison pipeline or skid row to due addiction issues or mental illness or maladjustment from trauma.
4) Kids who are so neglected they lack the basics, those whose addicted mothers decide to keep them and raise them when abortion is denied. I have seen such kids and it's a very disturbing thing I will never forget. Why don't you ask people who work in child services and the cops what they see before you spew nonsensical whataboutism about affluent and well cared for kids turning out to be unhappy "too" and somehow being on the same page overall as unwanted kids who don't get adopted.

^^this wasn't in response to the PP (I agree with her), but previous PP, just making this clear as I lost the post I was responding to, but you get my gist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Using the pill and IUD kept me child free, thankfully.

An unhealthy percentage of the GOP legislators writing these anti-abortion laws consider IUDs as equivalent to abortions.

They are dumb AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got my tubes tied. No pregnancy, no babies, no abortion.

Having gotten your tubes tied, I’m sure you know that many doctors still won’t perform tubal ligation on women they deem “too young.”

Why limit yourself to “those” doctors?

Why the F should anyone have to go around and beg doctors for health care?

Which doctor did you have to beg? Zip.

Do you live in the south? If so, yes, you do have to beg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread should have been aborted a long time ago. There is nothing new to discuss here. There are three camps:
1) Everything regarding an unborn child is a woman's choice and anyone trying to take away that choice is a misogynist. (Most)
2) An unborn mass of cells, fetus, etc. is a human and that life should be preserved at all costs. Anyone aborting or practicing abortion is evil. (Many)
3) Until the 24th week of gestation, abortion is acceptable and legal, but after that point should be illegal except in cases of legitimate health concerns for mother or child. (Some)

What else is there to discuss?

The many, many states that are passing laws in opposition to fifty years of legal precedent? Florida, the third largest state, passed a 15-week ban and there’s been zero coverage of it in the “liberal media.”

So those states are in camp 2, but can only move the needle so much from the current (former) laws that aligned with camp 3. Again, same three camps. Nothing new here to discuss. There’s plenty to complain about, but no new ideas or approaches or camps to discuss. Discussing and complaining (which include the same old hackneyed arguments from your camp) are different things. That was my point.

What you’re really depressed about is that the camp 1 folks (you) are so emotional and extreme and angry with your prior and current arguments that you’ve driven the camp 3 folks to take action and elect state leaders that pass those laws. They are winning in those many, many states and you don’t like it. So the real question you should be discussing is why are so many states now acting this way? What’s changed? Why are camp 1’s arguments now falling on deaf ears? Males are a minority in this country. Southern males are a minority in this country. So why are they winning often? Is it that many women are also in camp 2? Is it that camp 3 folks don’t vote enough? Is it that camp 3 folks are ok with 15 weeks vs 24 and don’t see the slippery slope so are apathetic? Is it that maybe the people blogging on this forum don’t represent the country very well? Now THAT we can discuss.