Marital rape?

[Anonymous]

A friend recently awakened in the very early morning hours to her husband digitally penetrating her in her sleep. At other times, she has awakened in the middle of the night to her husband masturbating in bed while groping her and digitally penetrating her. On all of these occasions she pretended not to wake up, feeling completely mortified and violated and I don't know, frozen? Said she hoped it would go away quickly if she pretended it wasn't happening. Apparently consensual sex has never been initiated in any way that would make this seem to him like a "come on" with her - aka she has never woken up at a random time wanting to have sex with him, and has never responded affirmatively to wanting sex upon just waking (just not something she enjoys, and he would know this after 5+ years of marriage). After the most recent (early morning) event she was so upset that she got the courage up to tell him that it was completely not okay with her, and he became very defensive and said she was acting in her sleep as if she wanted to have sex. A couple days later and he is very upset that she is still having a hard time, and thinks she should be able to just move on past it and that he was justified in his actions.

Is there any question that this is rape? It is so confusing, because he is an overall nice guy. I honestly always thought that a big part of her attraction to him was that she felt he was "safe" in many ways (she was previously in an abusive marriage before meeting current husband), and she is completely shocked by this. I listened and tried to be supportive, but I was a little dumbfounded myself.

[Anonymous]

Yes, this is rape. She should go to therapy and try to set up some boundaries so she feels safe. Consent is just that..consent.

[Anonymous]

What's digital penetration?

[Anonymous]

It does qualify as such.
But many men , and women, don't see it this way.
It is something that can be worked through, but both partners have to be willing to receive counseling.

[Anonymous]

Not rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's digital penetration?

NP here, but probably penetration with digits, i.e. fingers.

To the OP, it is definitely abusive, especially since his reaction was to blame her instead of apologizing. Have you given your friend that domestic violence hotline number -- 1-800-799-SAFE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not rape.

It absolutely is. People are not allowed to sexually fondle, penetrate, etc someone else while that person is sleeping and not giving consent.

[Anonymous]

I had a boyfriend do this to me. I wasn't sure what to call it. It didn't seem like rape, based on what I thought the definition was, but I did feel freaked out and knew it wasn't right.

She should not "move past it" and carry on. I hope she calls that hotline.

[Anonymous]

She should digitally penetrate him when he is sleeping and see if it is enjoyable for him.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Yes, fingering - sorry to be unclear, I think I was sort of subconsciously deferring to a more clinical description because of the subject matter.

Thanks to those who've replied. I definitely very strongly recommended that she seek counseling about it. She seems to be having a real trauma response after this last incident, but is questioning if that's warranted and I think trying hard to quell the feelings. I hope a therapist will be helpful, but I honestly wanted to sort it out for myself too, so that I can be appropriate and supportive when it comes up again, which I expect it may because we are very close and I know that she is not speaking with anyone else about this.

I think what is so shocking about it to me is that this guy is so very beta (to borrow a descriptor I just saw in another thread) in general, super nice and low key, it is just hard for me to imagine why in the hell he would do this. They have lots of kids. He knows what she went through in her previous/abusive marriage and how much she has worked to overcome a lot of what happened, has always been very supportive of her. The whole thing is just bizarre, especially his reaction when she spoke with him about it.

[Anonymous]

OP again - I also was wondering if this is something many women have experienced, and if it is somehow a "normalized" behavior amongst some guys. With a couple of people here already responding they've experienced something similar, it seems not terribly uncommon? Not trying to justify it or minimize it AT ALL, just wondering about others who've been through it, if there's some way this guy has convinced himself based on convos with other guys that this would be acceptable, if anyone has come back from this in a relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes, fingering - sorry to be unclear, I think I was sort of subconsciously deferring to a more clinical description because of the subject matter.

Thanks to those who've replied. I definitely very strongly recommended that she seek counseling about it. She seems to be having a real trauma response after this last incident, but is questioning if that's warranted and I think trying hard to quell the feelings. I hope a therapist will be helpful, but I honestly wanted to sort it out for myself too, so that I can be appropriate and supportive when it comes up again, which I expect it may because we are very close and I know that she is not speaking with anyone else about this.

I think what is so shocking about it to me is that this guy is so very beta (to borrow a descriptor I just saw in another thread) in general, super nice and low key, it is just hard for me to imagine why in the hell he would do this. They have lots of kids. He knows what she went through in her previous/abusive marriage and how much she has worked to overcome a lot of what happened, has always been very supportive of her. The whole thing is just bizarre, especially his reaction when she spoke with him about it.

Because a lot of people still have the dark ages belief that your spouse's body belongs to you and you can do whatever you wish with it whenever you want because you already gave consent when you said " I do".

In his mind what he did was not rape. In his mind rape s something a stranger in a dark alley does, not a spouse.


As a friend just be supportive and reassuring. Listen more than you talk and encourage her to speak with a therapist. Should she choose to stay with him still treat her with kindness and support.

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm a pp who had this experience with a boyfriend, and none of my other boyfriends ever did this. Nor has my husband. Not sure how common it is, but thankful I haven't had partners like that since that one.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like he was being inappropriate, but why does she not say anything when it is happening. My DH sometimes wakes up in the middle of the night turned on and may start rubbing up against me and touching me, but if I'm not into it I just snap at him that I'm tired and we go back to sleep. The times that I have been into it I sometimes just don't say anything and enjoy it. I think my Dh would be a little upset too if in the morning I told him he raped me after not objecting at all when it was happening.

[Anonymous]

Some men are at their sexual peak in the middle of the night while their partner is sleeping. Some men are denied sex so often that sleep sex is better than no sex. It might be rude but that doesn't make it rape.

Your friend sounds like she has issues communicating. Why would she fake sleep and then be mortified about it afterwards instead of discussing consent, etc. if he is such an understanding husband? Your friend probably needs counseling since she has past abuse issues.