Marital rape?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The double standards are out in force in this thread. If the husband initiates while she is sleeping and she doesn't give consent after she wakes up is is rape? But when a woman gives her husband a blowjob while his is sleeping and he "enjoys" it, it's not rape? Please, they are the same thing. Enjoying something is not "consent", we've seen enough rape trials to know that how the victim responds does not mean they consented. For all he knew she WAS enjoying it, because she gave zero inclination otherwise even though she was clearly awake.

Enjoy was a poor choice of words. If the partner in question male or female is fine with their partner initiating sex while they are sleeping or even completing sex before waking up then it's not rape.
This is something that should be given the all clear beforehand.
Personally, even with consent that's not appealing to me.

It's clear in the scenario in the OP the wife was not okay with what happened. The biggest red flag in the OP is that the husband brushed off the wife's complaints when she confronted him.
As this thread shows I can see how some people still (wrongly imo) believe they are free to do as they please with their spouse, but if your spouse tells you they aren't cool with it your response shouldn't be get over it.

It may be clear to us because she complained about it after the fact. I don't think it was very clear to her husband since she made no effort to convey her feelings. As unhappy as her husband may be about it, it sounds like if she had made her feelings clear while it was actually happening, he would have stopped. It doesn't sound like he kept doing it after that revelation.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I wouldn't stick my fingers in or on my wife's vagina while she was sleeping. She likes her sleep too much. So, based on my knowledge of her, I know she wouldn't appreciate it.

But, to the larger point, the idea that couples have specifically hashed things out in advance just doesn't fit with the real world experience of (I would guess) most couples. For example, on the other end of the spectrum, I often scratch my wife's back without her consent. I like doing it. She seems to enjoy it as well. But, I've never asked. I don't specifically recall, but I imagine I just did it unannounced one day, she didn't recoil, and so I kept doing it. But I certainly wouldn't do that with a stranger. So, the prior relationship informed my impression of what she had consented to. Thankfully I was right.

Hands in the vagina of a sleeping woman seems a little far to me. But, I will admit that I don't know precisely where or why the line is drawn if hands in the vagina is on the bad side and scratching a back is on the good side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not rape.

Are you fucking kidding me?

I woke up from a deep sleep once and my boyfriend was having sex with me. That is, raping me. No consent given.

Yes, OP. That is rape.

Not rape

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is assault. She doesn't need to tell him no. He needs to wait for her to say yes

And it has to be an unsolicited "yes." If he requests sex, some women could feel that as coercion and feel an obligation to say "yes," even though she isn't enthusiastically consenting. I don't know why men would even want coerced sex.

So, If my wife wakes me up by massaging morning wood, that's abuse? Or by a Bj, that's rape?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again, checking out for good since this is getting ugly for no apparent reason. Thanks again to all who commented with helpful intentions.

Your skin is far too thin to be hanging around places like DCUM if this thread scared you away anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you ever "woken up" your boyfriends/husbands with a surprise BJ?

Millions of women have. Does that make them rapists?

My dh had given me specific consent to do this (and more) to wake him up. if he hadn't ... I probably would try a gentler approach first.

[Hummingbird]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I wouldn't stick my fingers in or on my wife's vagina while she was sleeping. She likes her sleep too much. So, based on my knowledge of her, I know she wouldn't appreciate it.

But, to the larger point, the idea that couples have specifically hashed things out in advance just doesn't fit with the real world experience of (I would guess) most couples. For example, on the other end of the spectrum, I often scratch my wife's back without her consent. I like doing it. She seems to enjoy it as well. But, I've never asked. I don't specifically recall, but I imagine I just did it unannounced one day, she didn't recoil, and so I kept doing it. But I certainly wouldn't do that with a stranger. So, the prior relationship informed my impression of what she had consented to. Thankfully I was right.

Hands in the vagina of a sleeping woman seems a little far to me. But, I will admit that I don't know precisely where or why the line is drawn if hands in the vagina is on the bad side and scratching a back is on the good side.

Err on the side of communication and knowing each other's boundaries. DH open to middle of the night advances, but I'm not pegging him in his sleep as my sexual foreplay. Come on people. This is rape. Black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you ever "woken up" your boyfriends/husbands with a surprise BJ?

Millions of women have. Does that make them rapists?

I have. I have explicit permission from my husband to wake him up with sex at any time.

I hate that kind of thing, however, and I'd be super-pissed if he did the same thing to me. I've told him explicitly that I don't consent to being sexed up while I am sleeping.

Amazing how clear things can be if you use your words.

Absolutely. "No. Stop that." works wonders.

Sure. But that shouldn't be the default requirement - "I can do whatever I want to your body unless you tell me to stop." The default should be that you get consent - ongoing consent - in advance.

If you leave your front door open, and someone walks in, are they guilty of trespassing?

Without more context, it's hard to say for sure.

The problem with affirmative consent is that it pretends that consent can be reduced to a simple math equation. Real life is not often so cut and dried.

If they don't live there, yes, they're trespassing. Good lord, PP.

[Anonymous]

Hummingbird wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I wouldn't stick my fingers in or on my wife's vagina while she was sleeping. She likes her sleep too much. So, based on my knowledge of her, I know she wouldn't appreciate it.

But, to the larger point, the idea that couples have specifically hashed things out in advance just doesn't fit with the real world experience of (I would guess) most couples. For example, on the other end of the spectrum, I often scratch my wife's back without her consent. I like doing it. She seems to enjoy it as well. But, I've never asked. I don't specifically recall, but I imagine I just did it unannounced one day, she didn't recoil, and so I kept doing it. But I certainly wouldn't do that with a stranger. So, the prior relationship informed my impression of what she had consented to. Thankfully I was right.

Hands in the vagina of a sleeping woman seems a little far to me. But, I will admit that I don't know precisely where or why the line is drawn if hands in the vagina is on the bad side and scratching a back is on the good side.

Err on the side of communication and knowing each other's boundaries. DH open to middle of the night advances, but I'm not pegging him in his sleep as my sexual foreplay. Come on people. This is rape. Black and white.

Bottom line. I can't believe how many people here are cool with entering an unconscious woman.