Discrimination against Asians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you pp for those statistics. I would like to hear a direct explanation of why people find it offensive to hear “your English is so good.” If their objection is something along the lines of, “you’d never say that to a white person,” the answer is that as an Asian American you look outwardly like many people whose first language is not English, and white people don’t.

I have always considered myself a liberal but I think the characterization of many things as microaggressions has gone too far. I read a recent frustrated article by an African American doctor who was offended that she is sometimes not seen as a doctor at first glance. She acknowledged in her piece that 90% of people who look like her in her hospital are nursing staff and janitorial. So why is someone a monster if they accidentally assume something that is accurate 90% of the time?

PP with the facts here. I'm seeing this happening among the people that share my cultural background, especially the US-born ones. It is now somewhat fashionable for minorities to feel some sense of outrage because of something-something-white-people-did. This trope of "we'll never be seen and accepted as American" has shown up multiple times in my social circle. I find it repulsive as it vilifies people purely for making a generalized observation, and a compliment at that. Asians have no other reason to complain: relative to the overall US population, we live in good neighborhoods, make a good living, our kids are provided with good education, and the crime rate in our communities are low. Some of us feel left out in the "America is Racist" game and want our spot in the intersectional Olympics.

You are completely missing the point.

If people say to a black person, "oh, wow, your english is so good, it doesn't sound at all low class/uneducated, and oh you have a degree from a good college? Wow..." ... people would say that is racist and stereotyping.

Yet, you think if people stereotype Asian Americans then that's fine. I am not 100% sure that you are even Asian, but if you are, then I assume that you are ok with stereotyping, and you would also stereotype black people, and be one of those people who say to a black person, "oh wow, your english is so good.. you don't sound uneducated and stupid.. and wow you have a degree from a good college."

I would advise you to keep your stereotypes to yourself, else you will get an a$$ woopin' from said Black person.

Hard to tell if you are protesting purported discrimination against Asians or just looking for a comparatively safe way to insult Black people using hypotheticals. My money is on the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you pp for those statistics. I would like to hear a direct explanation of why people find it offensive to hear “your English is so good.” If their objection is something along the lines of, “you’d never say that to a white person,” the answer is that as an Asian American you look outwardly like many people whose first language is not English, and white people don’t.

I have always considered myself a liberal but I think the characterization of many things as microaggressions has gone too far. I read a recent frustrated article by an African American doctor who was offended that she is sometimes not seen as a doctor at first glance. She acknowledged in her piece that 90% of people who look like her in her hospital are nursing staff and janitorial. So why is someone a monster if they accidentally assume something that is accurate 90% of the time?

PP with the facts here. I'm seeing this happening among the people that share my cultural background, especially the US-born ones. It is now somewhat fashionable for minorities to feel some sense of outrage because of something-something-white-people-did. This trope of "we'll never be seen and accepted as American" has shown up multiple times in my social circle. I find it repulsive as it vilifies people purely for making a generalized observation, and a compliment at that. Asians have no other reason to complain: relative to the overall US population, we live in good neighborhoods, make a good living, our kids are provided with good education, and the crime rate in our communities are low. Some of us feel left out in the "America is Racist" game and want our spot in the intersectional Olympics.

You are completely missing the point.

If people say to a black person, "oh, wow, your english is so good, it doesn't sound at all low class/uneducated, and oh you have a degree from a good college? Wow..." ... people would say that is racist and stereotyping.

Yet, you think if people stereotype Asian Americans then that's fine. I am not 100% sure that you are even Asian, but if you are, then I assume that you are ok with stereotyping, and you would also stereotype black people, and be one of those people who say to a black person, "oh wow, your english is so good.. you don't sound uneducated and stupid.. and wow you have a degree from a good college."

I would advise you to keep your stereotypes to yourself, else you will get an a$$ woopin' from said Black person.

Hard to tell if you are protesting purported discrimination against Asians or just looking for a comparatively safe way to insult Black people using hypotheticals. My money is on the latter.

? It's hard to tell that I'm telling the ^PP that stereotyping is not ok based on what I wrote? Please read bolded.

[Anonymous]

We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

True that.

But if you do the counterfactual and just replace someone with another race in any context and if changes your way of thinking, this is racial bias.

Take TJ. Replace 70 percent Asian with 70 percent White or 70 percent Black. I don't think we would be having the same controversy. Therefore, people are calling out bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you pp for those statistics. I would like to hear a direct explanation of why people find it offensive to hear “your English is so good.” If their objection is something along the lines of, “you’d never say that to a white person,” the answer is that as an Asian American you look outwardly like many people whose first language is not English, and white people don’t.

I have always considered myself a liberal but I think the characterization of many things as microaggressions has gone too far. I read a recent frustrated article by an African American doctor who was offended that she is sometimes not seen as a doctor at first glance. She acknowledged in her piece that 90% of people who look like her in her hospital are nursing staff and janitorial. So why is someone a monster if they accidentally assume something that is accurate 90% of the time?

PP with the facts here. I'm seeing this happening among the people that share my cultural background, especially the US-born ones. It is now somewhat fashionable for minorities to feel some sense of outrage because of something-something-white-people-did. This trope of "we'll never be seen and accepted as American" has shown up multiple times in my social circle. I find it repulsive as it vilifies people purely for making a generalized observation, and a compliment at that. Asians have no other reason to complain: relative to the overall US population, we live in good neighborhoods, make a good living, our kids are provided with good education, and the crime rate in our communities are low. Some of us feel left out in the "America is Racist" game and want our spot in the intersectional Olympics.

You are completely missing the point.

If people say to a black person, "oh, wow, your english is so good, it doesn't sound at all low class/uneducated, and oh you have a degree from a good college? Wow..." ... people would say that is racist and stereotyping.

Yet, you think if people stereotype Asian Americans then that's fine. I am not 100% sure that you are even Asian, but if you are, then I assume that you are ok with stereotyping, and you would also stereotype black people, and be one of those people who say to a black person, "oh wow, your english is so good.. you don't sound uneducated and stupid.. and wow you have a degree from a good college."

I would advise you to keep your stereotypes to yourself, else you will get an a$$ woopin' from said Black person.

PP here. Why would you stereotype a black person as being physically violent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

True that.

But if you do the counterfactual and just replace someone with another race in any context and if changes your way of thinking, this is racial bias.

Take TJ. Replace 70 percent Asian with 70 percent White or 70 percent Black. I don't think we would be having the same controversy. Therefore, people are calling out bias.

I know a ton of second generation Asians who are indistinguishable from any other American. Maybe it depends on the region of the country, but the Asians I know sound like me, have similar interests and hobbies, I never even think of their Asian ancestry, as they don’t think of my European ancestry. We are very much alike and I am fairly sure they would agree with this. I am not in DC though. They would laugh at this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

Not just subconsciously, but consciously as well. The entire concept of behavioral statistics is using math to stereotype population based on demographics. When I, as an Asian, walked up to the polling place to vote in the 2018 election, the Democratic pamphleteers approach me while the Republican stayed back. When I refuse the Democratic sample ballot pamphlette, the pamphleteer was shocked. I thought nothing of it. You are always judged one way or another based on the group you visibly belong to. There is nothing nefarious or evil about this activity, it's simply how to human mind works to reduce the huge dataset that is our environment into manageable information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This may or may not have happened when he was younger but certainly does not happen now. He is very well regarded in his profession. No one would say that he speaks English well. How ridiculous. This is not the 80s. Come on.

I was told my English is really good a few years ago in the DC area. I was born in America but am of Indian origin. You’re deluding yourself.

Re bolded comment, this made me laugh. This still happens. Maybe not as persistently as in the past decades but the underlying current is still very much there. I am considered highly successful, in a senior position in a profession filled with graduates from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Ivies, Duke, Gtown, UVA etc. I live in an affluent area of NOVA. People in professional or neighborhood settings have commented on how polished and articulate I am. Or point out that I speak without an accent. Most of my Asian-American friends with similar levels of success have their own stories about these types of situations. You kind of laugh it off because success helps wash over a lot of things. But it is still not pleasant, and it is a form of microaggression.

Oh my gawd. Get over yourself. People don't form these opinions based on a vacuum. It's natural human behavior for us to hold simplified views of the world around us, especially things of little significance or importance to our personal lives. That all BMW drivers are aholes is one such belief. While it may seem offensive for others to be surprised by your excellent English, it's a common fact that most Asians in this country are first generation immigrants, with English as a second language, often learned during teenage years, leading to an audible accent. As time goes on, we have more and more Asians in this country that have a great command of English, and speak with little to no accent, and therefore people's perception changes naturally. That some are still impressed by your English doesn't somehow make it an aggression. Personally, I am glad when someone mentions to me that my English is excellent, wondering if I was born in the US. I am eager to share that I came to the US in my teenage years, but that I had a wonderful English teacher who personally recorded cassette tapes to help me with my enunciation. Next time this person encounters another Asian who speaks English well, he will be less surprised by it, and less likely to make a comment. People don't make these comments because they are impolite, but because they are misinformed. Being misinformed is the natural state, and it's not a reason to dislike someone for it. You ought to know better.

Wow, so many things in this previous post. PP really doesn't get it. Even the cited "common fact" that most Asians in this country are first generations is wrong. Also, Asian-Americans that are getting these comments are not first generation. They are often second, third generations who have spent their entire lives here in the US, which is the whole point about why these types of statements about being impressed with one's English is offensive.

PP here, my facts are based on real actual data:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/08/key-facts-about-asian-americans/

Among adult Asian Americans in the US, 73% are foreign born. When your average non-Asian American meet an Asian adult like the victim of micro aggressions above, their default assumption that the Asian is of foreign birth is statistically accurate. You may not like it, but this is simply the common fact.

Interesting how you didn't include the rest of the information:

"The modern immigration wave from Asia has accounted for one-quarter of all immigrants who have arrived in the U.S. since 1965. Today 59% of the U.S. Asian population was born in another country. That share rises to 73% among adult Asians. Yet, when and how Asian immigrants arrived in the U.S. varies, which helps explain why some groups have greater shares of U.S. born or foreign born among their populations. For example, only 27% of Japanese, who began arriving in the 19th century as plantation workers in what is now the state of Hawaii, are immigrants. By contrast, many Bhutanese arrived recently as refugees, and nearly all (92%) are foreign born."

As this study suggests, Asians are not a monolithic group. It's not appropriate for anyone to have a default assumptions about Asian-Americans or others.

The rest of the article essentially further supports the data that Asians as a group is predominantly foreign born. Your lack of willingness to admit to your ignorance and thank others for giving you real facts is a sign of poor upbringing.

Your mention about Japanese is ironic on 3 fronts: 1) we are not in Hawaii, 2)Japanese people in Hawaii do not get commented about their English because most of them are US-born, and 3) even if we were talking about Japanese outside of Hawaii, I doubt even other East Asians can pick out a Japanese, yet some how you expect a Western European American to be able to magically treat us all differently.

DP. Stereotypes may have statistical significance. But that doesn't give you a license to engage micro aggression. And you only do it to Asian people because you are not only a racist but a coward. Stereotypes of whites include abusing hard drugs, incest, inbreeding, molesting young boys, nascar fans, serial killers, rapist, bad dancer, bad vertical jumper, country music fans, systemic racism, bad math ... There might be statistics behind them but it is the definition of racism to generalize them on you because of your skin color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

Not just subconsciously, but consciously as well. The entire concept of behavioral statistics is using math to stereotype population based on demographics. When I, as an Asian, walked up to the polling place to vote in the 2018 election, the Democratic pamphleteers approach me while the Republican stayed back. When I refuse the Democratic sample ballot pamphlette, the pamphleteer was shocked. I thought nothing of it. You are always judged one way or another based on the group you visibly belong to. There is nothing nefarious or evil about this activity, it's simply how to human mind works to reduce the huge dataset that is our environment into manageable information.

I posted above that no one has told me that I speak English well for decades. We are Ivy League educated with a seven figure income. I have been mistaken for a nail tech at a nail salon and DH once was asked where he was delivering Chinese food from. We laugh it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

Not just subconsciously, but consciously as well. The entire concept of behavioral statistics is using math to stereotype population based on demographics. When I, as an Asian, walked up to the polling place to vote in the 2018 election, the Democratic pamphleteers approach me while the Republican stayed back. When I refuse the Democratic sample ballot pamphlette, the pamphleteer was shocked. I thought nothing of it. You are always judged one way or another based on the group you visibly belong to. There is nothing nefarious or evil about this activity, it's simply how to human mind works to reduce the huge dataset that is our environment into manageable information.

Exactly, people don’t want to acknowledge that discrimination occurs with all sorts of people. Poor people, uneducated people, uncultured people, short men, loud women, thin women, fat people, gay people, elderly people, on and on, stereotypes exist for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

Not just subconsciously, but consciously as well. The entire concept of behavioral statistics is using math to stereotype population based on demographics. When I, as an Asian, walked up to the polling place to vote in the 2018 election, the Democratic pamphleteers approach me while the Republican stayed back. When I refuse the Democratic sample ballot pamphlette, the pamphleteer was shocked. I thought nothing of it. You are always judged one way or another based on the group you visibly belong to. There is nothing nefarious or evil about this activity, it's simply how to human mind works to reduce the huge dataset that is our environment into manageable information.

Exactly, people don’t want to acknowledge that discrimination occurs with all sorts of people. Poor people, uneducated people, uncultured people, short men, loud women, thin women, fat people, gay people, elderly people, on and on, stereotypes exist for everyone.

Except people feel it’s ok to verbalize them to Asians to their faces and not to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

True that.

But if you do the counterfactual and just replace someone with another race in any context and if changes your way of thinking, this is racial bias.

Take TJ. Replace 70 percent Asian with 70 percent White or 70 percent Black. I don't think we would be having the same controversy. Therefore, people are calling out bias.

If TJ were a selective magnet that was 70% White in 2020, we would absolutely be having this conversation. Schools in FCPS that are less than 70% White get called out as lily white and they aren't held out as prominently as TJ.

Granted, there's no way to prove or disprove this, but to assert otherwise suggests you are either detached from reality or have a greatly exaggerated sense of your own victimhood.

[Anonymous]

Comedians often acknowledge and lament that they can’t make disparaging jokes about any groups now but they love the fact that they can still joke about Asians. Think about that.

They can’t joke about gays, fat people, disabled people etc. but they know they can get away with making negative jokes about Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all stereotype people even if we want to believe that we don’t. Think about it, if you see a disheveled obese person with no teeth what are your thoughts? If you see a thin middle aged blonde women driving an SUV? If you see a child who has poor social skills and appears unintelligent? If you see a black woman working in a hospital? Everyone subconsciously stereotypes even if they don’t want to acknowledge it.

True that.

But if you do the counterfactual and just replace someone with another race in any context and if changes your way of thinking, this is racial bias.

Take TJ. Replace 70 percent Asian with 70 percent White or 70 percent Black. I don't think we would be having the same controversy. Therefore, people are calling out bias.

If TJ were a selective magnet that was 70% White in 2020, we would absolutely be having this conversation. Schools in FCPS that are less than 70% White get called out as lily white and they aren't held out as prominently as TJ.

Granted, there's no way to prove or disprove this, but to assert otherwise suggests you are either detached from reality or have a greatly exaggerated sense of your own victimhood.

There might be some whispers here and there but they would not do what they are now doing to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Comedians often acknowledge and lament that they can’t make disparaging jokes about any groups now but they love the fact that they can still joke about Asians. Think about that.

They can’t joke about gays, fat people, disabled people etc. but they know they can get away with making negative jokes about Asians.

This

Jimmy Kimmel did it a couple of times and nothing happened to him. Collectively Asians are a silent group. They need to engage more politically and make their voices heard.