Is pride really worth losing your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom was like this and her thing was she never thought a parent should have to apologize to a child for anything. And she did some really hurtful stuff. But, she's dead now and I'd take her back warts and all. It's complicated. I miss her every day.

I had a mother like this and was in the same scenario as OP. My mom did something foul towards my DW that caused me to go no-contact. After a little over year of that, she was diagnosed with cancer and passed away less than 2 years afterwards. We had a bit better of a relationship during that time (primarily because I "catered" more towards her given her terminal illness) but it was never great.

I love my mom, I miss the good parts of our relationship, but I do not regret taking a break from her. It was necessary for me, my marriage, and my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

Maybe she’s just stuck, doesn’t know how to do what she needs to do, and possibly has thoughts that reinforce this. (“If he loved me, if he were a good son, he’d stop behaving like this.”). The longer you stay stuck the harder it is to break out of it. Not everyone has the social skills or the courage to get beyond where they are.

I had a similar issue once. I realized that my parent had made an effort to parent me better than they had been parented. There was stuff that they didn’t know how to do — and weren’t likely to learn at that point in their life. So it was on me to decide how I wanted to handle that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband's grandmother cut one daughter out of her life because she lied about where her college-age sister was one night. For the rest of her life, grandma was no-contact with this daughter, which maybe she didn't mind because she had five other kids and a slew of grandkids.

My husband maintains that she was mentally ill, and knowing what I now know, I believe it.

Wait, so she cut off one daughter who was covering for the other daughter, but not the other daughter who was out and about not where she said she was?

Yes, exactly. The one who covered for her sister was cut off. The sister wasn't cut off, but Grandma was horrible to her also. That sister (our aunt) told us once that she told her mom she wished she would offer her praise from time to time. Grandma said, "I would, if you ever did anything worth praising." That aunt, by the way, raised three kids by herself while suffering from MS, working full time, and winning community awards. When DH says his grandma was mentally ill, I believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Narcissism

This. She truly doesn't think she's wrong. This was my FIL before he died. My MIL isn't a narcissist but she refused to go against him. Her loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

Because she doesn't think she's wrong. She also doesn't care as much as you think she should.

[Anonymous]

In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

She’s not sorry! She doesn’t see spending time with your family as worth it. Many grandparents really do not care about their grandchildren. Once the novelty wears off if the grandchildren don’t do anything for the grandparent then what is the point? Old people get extremely selfish. In their minds, relationships are often no longer two way streets, it’s what have you done for me lately.

Ah! Gotcha! This actually makes sense. The funny thing is, she was QUEEN of, “I miss you guys so much, let’s get together!” But perhaps she only enjoyed the attention, not the actual relationship. Well, clearly. I can’t imagine nothing every single thing I could to get back in contact with my kids, if I had said something to offend them. I guess that’s why I just don’t get it!

Sure, and that's a normal reaction. Your mother-in-law doesn't agree. Don't spend any more time trying to understand her. Honestly, you're starting to sound a little smug.

[Anonymous]

It's narcissism. I was in the same boat as your DH 15 years ago. My mom disrespected my wife, and it was the last straw. She returned the kids' birth announcements and Christmas cards. She called once when my dad (they divorced and remarried other people) passed away, for about 2 minutes.
Recently she told my grandma (her mother) that she's willing to make up IF I call her first.
I am at peace with my decision of no contact.

Support your DH and let he deals with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

I am at complete peace with my decision. We see other family members separate from my mother. I’ve long ago come to peace with selling out to myself and maintaining a relationship just for an inheritance 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

I am at complete peace with my decision. We see other family members separate from my mother. I’ve long ago come to peace with selling out to myself and maintaining a relationship just for an inheritance 🙄

*NOT selling out on myself

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm the PP whose mother is dead and we had a complicated relationship. My dad is incredibly lonely without my mom. He's miserable. They were each other's world. I'm busy with my own kids and life. Of course they prioritize each other because they spend almost all their time together. Just like you put your own husband and kids first, your father prioritizes his wife as the most important person in his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mother's case, she prioritizes her selfish rage over a relationship with her only child. In my father's case, he prioritizes making my mother happy (which isn't actually possible) over having a relationship with his only child.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm the PP whose mother is dead and we had a complicated relationship. My dad is incredibly lonely without my mom. He's miserable. They were each other's world. I'm busy with my own kids and life. Of course they prioritize each other because they spend almost all their time together. Just like you put your own husband and kids first, your father prioritizes his wife as the most important person in his life.

It’s not always that simple. (Or healthy.)