Holding my boundary. Let him be mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is the biggest drama llama.

I feel for her child.

DH is most likely to remarry, hopefully it will be to someone warm.

OP will be bitter for the rest of her life, it's her nature and she combatively defends it. No quality guy will want to be with someone like her, she will just get worse with age and with no introspection.

You're nuts. She's in a bad situation that would make almost anyone bitter because she lives with someone who is supposed to be her partner but treats her and her time with contempt. If the situation improves, like if the husband gets better or she leaves, she'll be a happier person.

Take your focus off OP's framing and look at the 3 yr old who tried to connect with mommy, rebuffed to score points, and whose father left without a goodbye, again to score points in the toxicity with OP.

OP's sense of self is rooted in being a martyr, that is why she makes extra errands and does not do amazon, etc (free delivery!) Once DH is gone as a primary focus, she will be the martyr re: her daughter and to some extent, probably, always ex-DH.

OP and her DH both suck. They use the kid as a pawn even now. No emotional ties to spouse, kid, others are mentioned, just a grinding focus on amplified work on the one hand and you can't make me on the other.

What feelings of warmth and joy are being created for the kid? What friends and social life surround the family? Just toxicity, isolation, screens and "enrichment" seems like. One narc parent is tough, 2 and it really is not a happy home life for the kid.

No solutions can be entertained, like Amazon, bc martyr is OP's power.

I'm not going to bother to scroll through over 30 pages of responses, but I'm pretty sure the errands OP mentioned were Trader Joe's (which, as far as I know, does not participate in Instacart or Ship't or something similar and does have specific items that you can't find at other grocery stores) and Amazon RETURNS, which are not the same thing as ordering from Amazon and you will be charged for the UPS pick up option.

I am a huge delivery person - I order pretty much everything for my entire life online, but I also know that some things need to be bought in person, and it sounds like that's what OP was doing, not "making extra errands."

Also, I'm not one of the people who have posted who is hardcore team OP, but some of you just make stuff up to prove your points and it's annoying.

Does UPS or Trader Joe's ban children from their premises? That could be done in the afternoon with the kid and thus not encroaching on hair washing time.

[Anonymous]

are you divorced? if so boundaries. if not, this is having a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Moron, most people don't live in some perfect world where mom and dad are both available to read, cuddle, simultaneously kiss, and snuggle one child in an elaborate bedtime routine every night. Come out of the clouds and focus on the bigger picture here.

I'll say this flat out: if you don't have the "availability" to kiss your child before you leave town for a week, you are a shitty parent with f*cked up priorities. No one is talking about an elaborate bedtime routine here, so don't you move the goalposts. OP's husband didn't bother to say goodbye and kiss his child before he left town. Doesn't he even want to? He seems like he has psychological problems.

I feel the same way about someone too lazy to help with the nap or lunch. Sorry kiddo it's all about meeeee right now. That person isn't right in the head. They both suck. Is that clear enough? That person doesn't get to be mad at their spouse for modeling their behavior.

No, it's not clear. Anyone, including a nanny, uncle, or neighbor, can make a kid lunch. Hell, the short order cook at your local Friendly's can do that. There's no substitute for a parent's affection. That you can't see the qualitative difference is astounding. I also still don't understand people who don't want to give their kid a kiss. Honestly, when I snuggle my kids, it's as much for me as for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are you divorced? if so boundaries. if not, this is having a family.

I don't know if this is gonna be good news or bad news for you, but actually a lot of people have families where their spouses are kind, respectful of their time, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Moron, most people don't live in some perfect world where mom and dad are both available to read, cuddle, simultaneously kiss, and snuggle one child in an elaborate bedtime routine every night. Come out of the clouds and focus on the bigger picture here.

I'll say this flat out: if you don't have the "availability" to kiss your child before you leave town for a week, you are a shitty parent with f*cked up priorities. No one is talking about an elaborate bedtime routine here, so don't you move the goalposts. OP's husband didn't bother to say goodbye and kiss his child before he left town. Doesn't he even want to? He seems like he has psychological problems.

I feel the same way about someone too lazy to help with the nap or lunch. Sorry kiddo it's all about meeeee right now. That person isn't right in the head. They both suck. Is that clear enough? That person doesn't get to be mad at their spouse for modeling their behavior.

No, it's not clear. Anyone, including a nanny, uncle, or neighbor, can make a kid lunch. Hell, the short order cook at your local Friendly's can do that. There's no substitute for a parent's affection. That you can't see the qualitative difference is astounding. I also still don't understand people who don't want to give their kid a kiss. Honestly, when I snuggle my kids, it's as much for me as for them.

It's astounding that you can actually push a child away and say "not now" and pretend that's not damaging. Not coming into her room to kiss good night is not as obvious and hurtful. That kid had no idea dad was going away for a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Moron, most people don't live in some perfect world where mom and dad are both available to read, cuddle, simultaneously kiss, and snuggle one child in an elaborate bedtime routine every night. Come out of the clouds and focus on the bigger picture here.

I'll say this flat out: if you don't have the "availability" to kiss your child before you leave town for a week, you are a shitty parent with f*cked up priorities. No one is talking about an elaborate bedtime routine here, so don't you move the goalposts. OP's husband didn't bother to say goodbye and kiss his child before he left town. Doesn't he even want to? He seems like he has psychological problems.

I feel the same way about someone too lazy to help with the nap or lunch. Sorry kiddo it's all about meeeee right now. That person isn't right in the head. They both suck. Is that clear enough? That person doesn't get to be mad at their spouse for modeling their behavior.

No, it's not clear. Anyone, including a nanny, uncle, or neighbor, can make a kid lunch. Hell, the short order cook at your local Friendly's can do that. There's no substitute for a parent's affection. That you can't see the qualitative difference is astounding. I also still don't understand people who don't want to give their kid a kiss. Honestly, when I snuggle my kids, it's as much for me as for them.

It's astounding that you can actually push a child away and say "not now" and pretend that's not damaging. Not coming into her room to kiss good night is not as obvious and hurtful. That kid had no idea dad was going away for a week.

Show me where OP said she "pushed a child away." Show me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is very combative and invested in the martyr role. I suspect that is why she does not mention socializing with other couples and families, it turns people off. Dumping DH will likely make her need to shift that martyr focus elsewhere and she will likely then be a martyr to her child. Any household configuration and that poor kid is likely to get the short straw. In a way, the more energy OP invests in being a martyr, the more her DH may be locked into the pattern too. There is a lot of disconnecting from the kid for a "win" by both, it is very, very toxic. Such unhealthy people are not going to be Mr. Rogers with a change in household ime.

Not everyone socializes with other couples and families. Never have. Moved too much and don’t have time. Work and kids extracurriculars take all the time. Kids have playdates with friends. Stop acting like families socializing with couples and families is a must. Not everyone does that.

It's a must to have other models if toxicity is all you know, which seems to be the case with OP and her DH.

You mention kids having playdates, OP mentions no such thing. They have no emotional intimacy in the family and none outside it. Hopefully your family had a warmer vibe.

3 year olds do not need playdates. Kids do not need organized socialization until kindergarten. My kids did not have playdates at age 3. Preschool was enough. Extended family events enough. The kid is 3. No kid that age needs to socialize with families. Most people I know don’t do this. Get off the OP on this. You are making it a big issue. After 6, worry about kids play dates: does not matter now.

She describes passing the kid off or one on one or parent alone, not friends, neighbors or extended family except cold grandma. If you had warmth and interaction within the nuclear and extended family, not what OP's kid is getting. For many, friends can fill that role and provide modeling re: happier families, happier marriage, etc. The degree of disengagement from others by both parents is not healthy.

[Anonymous]

I really think OP is a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is very combative and invested in the martyr role. I suspect that is why she does not mention socializing with other couples and families, it turns people off. Dumping DH will likely make her need to shift that martyr focus elsewhere and she will likely then be a martyr to her child. Any household configuration and that poor kid is likely to get the short straw. In a way, the more energy OP invests in being a martyr, the more her DH may be locked into the pattern too. There is a lot of disconnecting from the kid for a "win" by both, it is very, very toxic. Such unhealthy people are not going to be Mr. Rogers with a change in household ime.

Not everyone socializes with other couples and families. Never have. Moved too much and don’t have time. Work and kids extracurriculars take all the time. Kids have playdates with friends. Stop acting like families socializing with couples and families is a must. Not everyone does that.

It's a must to have other models if toxicity is all you know, which seems to be the case with OP and her DH.

You mention kids having playdates, OP mentions no such thing. They have no emotional intimacy in the family and none outside it. Hopefully your family had a warmer vibe.

3 year olds do not need playdates. Kids do not need organized socialization until kindergarten. My kids did not have playdates at age 3. Preschool was enough. Extended family events enough. The kid is 3. No kid that age needs to socialize with families. Most people I know don’t do this. Get off the OP on this. You are making it a big issue. After 6, worry about kids play dates: does not matter now.

She describes passing the kid off or one on one or parent alone, not friends, neighbors or extended family except cold grandma. If you had warmth and interaction within the nuclear and extended family, not what OP's kid is getting. For many, friends can fill that role and provide modeling re: happier families, happier marriage, etc. The degree of disengagement from others by both parents is not healthy.

+1 and OP hasn't talked at all about what they do as a family or with others. Just this very rigid schedule that is of utmost importance. That's why ppl are asking - and it doesn't have to be all of the things ppl have mentioned. But esp if you don't like your spouse, both OP and DD may get more out of engaging with others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think OP is a troll.

I think if OP was a troll, that would've come up when Jeff reviewed this thread.

I think there are a lot of trolls on this thread, but I don't think OP is one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is very combative and invested in the martyr role. I suspect that is why she does not mention socializing with other couples and families, it turns people off. Dumping DH will likely make her need to shift that martyr focus elsewhere and she will likely then be a martyr to her child. Any household configuration and that poor kid is likely to get the short straw. In a way, the more energy OP invests in being a martyr, the more her DH may be locked into the pattern too. There is a lot of disconnecting from the kid for a "win" by both, it is very, very toxic. Such unhealthy people are not going to be Mr. Rogers with a change in household ime.

Not everyone socializes with other couples and families. Never have. Moved too much and don’t have time. Work and kids extracurriculars take all the time. Kids have playdates with friends. Stop acting like families socializing with couples and families is a must. Not everyone does that.

It's a must to have other models if toxicity is all you know, which seems to be the case with OP and her DH.

You mention kids having playdates, OP mentions no such thing. They have no emotional intimacy in the family and none outside it. Hopefully your family had a warmer vibe.

3 year olds do not need playdates. Kids do not need organized socialization until kindergarten. My kids did not have playdates at age 3. Preschool was enough. Extended family events enough. The kid is 3. No kid that age needs to socialize with families. Most people I know don’t do this. Get off the OP on this. You are making it a big issue. After 6, worry about kids play dates: does not matter now.

She describes passing the kid off or one on one or parent alone, not friends, neighbors or extended family except cold grandma. If you had warmth and interaction within the nuclear and extended family, not what OP's kid is getting. For many, friends can fill that role and provide modeling re: happier families, happier marriage, etc. The degree of disengagement from others by both parents is not healthy.

+1 and OP hasn't talked at all about what they do as a family or with others. Just this very rigid schedule that is of utmost importance. That's why ppl are asking - and it doesn't have to be all of the things ppl have mentioned. But esp if you don't like your spouse, both OP and DD may get more out of engaging with others.

You are taking what OP has said and filling in the blanks on your own, PP. People are asking about family time and social stuff. OP hasn't really spoken to that, but you're perfectly happy +1ing a post that states that OP's child is not getting warmth and interaction from extended or nuclear family, despite this child spending time with nuclear and extended family in the situation described by the OP. You don't know anything about what happened at Grandma's to comment on whether it was warm or not. That same post describes "a degree of disengagement" from OP's refusal to make lunch on a Saturday one time. That is pretty hyperbolic and I think if you are going to sit here and say "OP hasn't talked at all about blah blah blah" you should probably extend that to other things you're agreeing with that OP hasn't spoken to.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of posters cape for DHs who are lazy and do the bare min when it comes to domestic labor because it makes them feel justified in tolerating their own family dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Things of note:
-I would never quit my job. For one, I like making my own money. I would never make myself financial dependent on a man. Also, I have carried the health benefits for our family for the last 6 years. And I don’t trust my husband in terms of job stability
-Guess what I also often do on my “sat am free time”…other than working out for an hour and maybe reading for 30min or so. Grocery shopping. Trader Joe’s. Amazon returns to the ups store. Target runs for earth day items for dd’s school. Aka things for my f-ing family that aren’t even on dh’s radar or he assumes/expects that I will handle. Because I always have.
- I didn’t throw a tantrum or yell in front of dd. I literally said: “excited to play with you all afternoon after your nap” I told my dh: “you got nap and lunch” it was my dh who said “me? Why would I do it?” And I said why wouldn’t you. What did I do after dd got up from her nap? Took her to the museum, had a wonderful day. What did dh do? Pack for his work trip, leave the house for a few hours, and didn’t see dd for the rest of the day. He left in the morning for a week long trip. And didn’t see dd after giving her lunch and putting her down for nap. Dd woke up asking where daddy was. I said he went on an airplane for work and will come back. “Why didn’t he kiss me goodnight?” Now talk to me about parental engagement and involvement.
- as he packed, I told dh I was sorry his feelings were hurt but that I needed to talk to him about what happened. His reply “I vented and I think I’m good now.” He has texted me from his work trip as if nothing happened. Sending pictures of meals at restaurants and telling me about the weather. Literally as if nothing happened.

I haven’t left bc I think custody wouid be a nightmare and the finances of two homes an even bigger one.

OP, you clearly LOATHE your husband. Everything you’ve said about him reeks of bitterness and dislike. I think you should stop complaining and just get a divorce

+1

DH didn’t think it was a big deal because it wasn’t a big deal. OP is a high maintenance drama queen who acts like spending time with her daughter is like scrubbing toilets.

DH didn’t want to spend that time with his daughter either after passing her off to his mom all morning. Yet you only bash the OP.

But OP was mad at what he didn't do on her time. He didn't even kiss her goodnight! It cuts both ways. She didn't tuck her kid in for nap either, or fix her lunch, or want to spend time before getting the daughter handed off on her time. The kid wants both her parents involved not just one or the other. Instead she has these two yahoos playing hot potato.

There’s a huge difference between lunch and a goodnight kiss. No one really loves to make lunch for their kid—we do it because we have to. But a goodnight kiss? I want to kiss my kids goodnight, and miss it terribly when I’m traveling. The fact that he doesn’t want to…well, it says something about his relationship to his child.

That's what I think about a mother who shoos her kid away and tells her she will see her after the nap. Poor kid to end up with these two parents. Peas in a pod.

But she has a parent who will make her lunch. Anyone can make a kid lunch. Lunch isn’t a kiss. Mom’s kiss isn’t the same as Dad’s kiss.

Oh stop it. Both people can be wrong here. Dad may be slightly more wrong but neither look good. And the kiss stuff is just ick. No need to go there.

I have no idea what you mean by the kiss stuff being “ick.” Are you reading something sexual into this? If so, you’re the pervert, not me. What a disgusting person you are.

Go on then weirdo, tell us why mom's kiss is better than dad's kiss?

If you actually read for comprehension, you would see that I said mom’s kiss and dad’s kiss aren’t the same. Like, you can’t just substitute one or the other—you need both. Whereas who TF cares who makes the tuna fish sandwich. It’s just a sandwich, it’s not a personal expression of love.

Moron, most people don't live in some perfect world where mom and dad are both available to read, cuddle, simultaneously kiss, and snuggle one child in an elaborate bedtime routine every night. Come out of the clouds and focus on the bigger picture here.

I'll say this flat out: if you don't have the "availability" to kiss your child before you leave town for a week, you are a shitty parent with f*cked up priorities. No one is talking about an elaborate bedtime routine here, so don't you move the goalposts. OP's husband didn't bother to say goodbye and kiss his child before he left town. Doesn't he even want to? He seems like he has psychological problems.

I feel the same way about someone too lazy to help with the nap or lunch. Sorry kiddo it's all about meeeee right now. That person isn't right in the head. They both suck. Is that clear enough? That person doesn't get to be mad at their spouse for modeling their behavior.

No, it's not clear. Anyone, including a nanny, uncle, or neighbor, can make a kid lunch. Hell, the short order cook at your local Friendly's can do that. There's no substitute for a parent's affection. That you can't see the qualitative difference is astounding. I also still don't understand people who don't want to give their kid a kiss. Honestly, when I snuggle my kids, it's as much for me as for them.

It's astounding that you can actually push a child away and say "not now" and pretend that's not damaging. Not coming into her room to kiss good night is not as obvious and hurtful. That kid had no idea dad was going away for a week.

Show me where OP said she "pushed a child away." Show me.

You can push someone away with your words. You know that don't you? I didn't say physically shoved. But keep on playing your game where you think a kid is devastated that dad forgot to kiss her but had no reaction to mom figuratively pushing her away, creating distance, and not wanting to be with her. You're blinded by your own bias, twisting yourself into knots to defend the indefensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of posters cape for DHs who are lazy and do the bare min when it comes to domestic labor because it makes them feel justified in tolerating their own family dynamic.

I think posters here are deliberately not reading the posts that criticize both the husband and the wife. Both can be wrong. It's not an either/or. Both are wrong here and that doesn't make anyone "caping" for the husband to point out the obvious. Mom is not a saint and dad is not a super hero. They are both fundamentally flawed people. Who somehow decided it would be a really great idea to procreate.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP is very combative and invested in the martyr role. I suspect that is why she does not mention socializing with other couples and families, it turns people off. Dumping DH will likely make her need to shift that martyr focus elsewhere and she will likely then be a martyr to her child. Any household configuration and that poor kid is likely to get the short straw. In a way, the more energy OP invests in being a martyr, the more her DH may be locked into the pattern too. There is a lot of disconnecting from the kid for a "win" by both, it is very, very toxic. Such unhealthy people are not going to be Mr. Rogers with a change in household ime.

Not everyone socializes with other couples and families. Never have. Moved too much and don’t have time. Work and kids extracurriculars take all the time. Kids have playdates with friends. Stop acting like families socializing with couples and families is a must. Not everyone does that.

It's a must to have other models if toxicity is all you know, which seems to be the case with OP and her DH.

You mention kids having playdates, OP mentions no such thing. They have no emotional intimacy in the family and none outside it. Hopefully your family had a warmer vibe.

3 year olds do not need playdates. Kids do not need organized socialization until kindergarten. My kids did not have playdates at age 3. Preschool was enough. Extended family events enough. The kid is 3. No kid that age needs to socialize with families. Most people I know don’t do this. Get off the OP on this. You are making it a big issue. After 6, worry about kids play dates: does not matter now.

She describes passing the kid off or one on one or parent alone, not friends, neighbors or extended family except cold grandma. If you had warmth and interaction within the nuclear and extended family, not what OP's kid is getting. For many, friends can fill that role and provide modeling re: happier families, happier marriage, etc. The degree of disengagement from others by both parents is not healthy.

+1 and OP hasn't talked at all about what they do as a family or with others. Just this very rigid schedule that is of utmost importance. That's why ppl are asking - and it doesn't have to be all of the things ppl have mentioned. But esp if you don't like your spouse, both OP and DD may get more out of engaging with others.

You are taking what OP has said and filling in the blanks on your own, PP. People are asking about family time and social stuff. OP hasn't really spoken to that, but you're perfectly happy +1ing a post that states that OP's child is not getting warmth and interaction from extended or nuclear family, despite this child spending time with nuclear and extended family in the situation described by the OP. You don't know anything about what happened at Grandma's to comment on whether it was warm or not. That same post describes "a degree of disengagement" from OP's refusal to make lunch on a Saturday one time. That is pretty hyperbolic and I think if you are going to sit here and say "OP hasn't talked at all about blah blah blah" you should probably extend that to other things you're agreeing with that OP hasn't spoken to.

OP described her MIL as cold and not engaged as a mom or grandmother. No other family was mentioned, local or otherwise. Having supportive family or friends around can support young families and buffer some of the toxicity of this dynamic. OP does not mention meeting up with friends on her ME time, I think she is in her head and occupied with busyness and DH is on screens by her description. Interacting with others would be healthy and give ideas about how other families handle errands, time together, etc. It would help meet some of the emotional needs of the 3 of them. Right now, nothing is interrupting or countering the toxicity. Isolation is not healthy esp coming from a cold mom and a martyr mom, how else will they have other ideas of how to live as a family if they are not interacting with others?