Gaza War, Part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is Israel killing Palestinian children?

Because some terrorists that run a large part of Palestine where those children live are holding 200 + people hostage, and are continually attacking Isreal with rockets from those kids homes, schools, hospitals. It’s a gd war. It’s tragic. You are a POS antisemite and you should be banned from this site.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Cold hard fact - Gaza is full of horrible men and wives and children of horrible men.

I don’t recall in WW II we did not bomb Nazis cause they had kids and wives.

Ghaza is a ghetto full of dehumanized, dispossessed, bombed, starved humans whose only fault was being born in a land Israel wants to claim for itself. They are at the mercy of a savage state and people.

Israel would love it if Egypt took back the Gaza strip. Israel wants to be done with Gaza, but Hamas won't leave Israel alone.

. This is the problem. Israelis have for nearly a century refused to recognize that Palestinians lived there when they landed and have a substantiated right to the land. We have a serious disagreement as to how arriving settlers treat a native population. And somehow it’s Egypts fault? Egypt already took in 2M refugees violently expelled by Israel. You’re angry that people don’t willingly accept ethnic cleansing. Sorry to spoil your genocidal party

Jewish people were also native to the land. Don't forget that. About 1/3 of the population of Mandatory Palestine was Jewish, and they were more than willing to split it. It was the Arab League that refused and declared war.

As for the Gaza strip, it originally belonged to Egypt. Israel would love it if they could take it back. They want nothing to do with Gaza. They don't want the land. They just want Hamas to stop.

Lol. How sweet of them. They were willing to split it with the 750,000 Palestinians that they murdered and forcibly removed in the Nakba? That’s a funny way to share

Israelis had no good intentions. Their plan was always to expel those who would go and kill the rest.

Well maybe if the Arabs had negotiated instead of going to war the Nakba wouldn't have happened.

Why would they negotiate getting less than half of their own country while they were more than half of the population. How would that make sense.

They got a coastline and the Arab majority cities.

The overage that the Jews got was the desert.

If you were a Palestinian leader how would you even show your face to your people?

“Hey guys these foreigners have decided that we can only live in half of our country now without consulting us because the Germans killed almost all of the Jewish people, but that’s our problem now because reasons.”

You’re so dumb. It wasn’t their country. Palestinians had never had sovereignty over that land.

It was British Mandatory Palestine.

Before that it was under Ottoman rule.

Arabs had run it for periods before that, but they aren’t specifically Palestinian. That was a later concept.

Jews were there the whole time, in fluctuating numbers.

Moreover, the UN did surveys to make sure the land was split according to existing Arab and Jewish areas. The overage Jews got was the Negev, where the Bedouins lived.

Thanks for the correction. Let me revise it for accuracy.

“Hey guys these foreigners have decided that we can only live on half of the land that we have lived on for generation after generation, for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, without consulting us because we don’t have a government that white people consider real. The reason for this is that the Germans killed almost all of the Jewish people, but they have a real government and self-determination because they are white people, but that’s our problem now because reasons.”

For all the smug faux intellectual authority behind the Israeli propaganda ejaculations in this thread, responses like this are not given enough credit.

Really, it was akin to someone walking up to you, pummeling you, stealing your wallet, throwing the portion of its contents they didn’t want anyway at your feet, and then shooting your dog, your wife and your children when you protested the beating and theft of your wallet.

How dare you object to what they “gave” you? If you had just taken it and STFU, they wouldn’t have been forced to murder your family. Therefore, you’re to blame for your loss of family and property.

Hard to understand why that experience, followed by 75 years of brutal inhumanity at the hands of the sane people would lead to hard feelings and perhaps even anger.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Israel killing Palestinian children?

Because some terrorists that run a large part of Palestine where those children live are holding 200 + people hostage, and are continually attacking Isreal with rockets from those kids homes, schools, hospitals. It’s a gd war. It’s tragic. You are a POS antisemite and you should be banned from this site.

why were they killing them before 10/7?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Israel killing Palestinian children?

Because some terrorists that run a large part of Palestine where those children live are holding 200 + people hostage, and are continually attacking Isreal with rockets from those kids homes, schools, hospitals. It’s a gd war. It’s tragic. You are a POS antisemite and you should be banned from this site.

NP. And this is the heart of it. Yes some terrorists live among these people. The terrorists have done some truly awful things. The retaliation has led to a war and it is indeed tragic.

Where you and I part ways is in thinking that the above makes the death of the Palestinian children justified. It does not.

[Anonymous]

My thoughts:
Send in a bus caravan from Egypt to evacuate this hospital to Egypt, incubators and all. If Hamas stops them, well true colors.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see Israel as the underdog—surrounded by enemies, hated by the UN, the list goes on. It really is fighting a multi-front war.

That’s quite the definition of underdog.

The country with the most sophisticated military in the region that also happens to be closely allied with the country boasting the most powerful military in the world. And they’re fighting an impoverished population that doesn’t even control their own water.

I don’t think underdog means what you think it means.

+1

Exactly.

Don't start a war if you don't want to fight one particularly if you are impoverished.

I believe this is more conventionally known as the "Know your place, boy" argument ...

Wait what? What are you talking about? I am confused. This isn't the American South where African Americans (my people) at times were called uppity if they were successful, your comparison doesn't make any sense. You are so used to use our struggle to try to justify whatever it is you think you are going through that you are now getting sloppy.

Restatement: I believe this is more conventionally known as the "Know your place, boy" argument ...

The fact that one diverse group was subjected to inhumanity across hundreds of years of slavery, having been shoved into the ground using this same phrase doesn't mean that another group cannot also suffer a grotesque fate (specifically, the sustained, humiliating, intentionally provocative order by "their betters" to accept their station in society and STFU about it, lest they get a good and thorough beating). You don't have exclusive rights to being marginalized by bad people. Today, the lynching is delivered at arms length via gleaming F-22 fighter jets that one side is gifted by guess who?

Uncle Sam, back at it again!

Again, you missed the whole point of "don't start a war you don't want to fight"--the point is go fight the war but don't complain when who you fight, fights back. Again, to cheaply gain sympathy from African Americans, you are making a comparison that literally makes no sense in the context of the conversation. No one is talking about no keep yourself in your place (yes I am using a double negative like a good black person when we are really trying to emphasize something by using AAVE intentionally)

Those "complaining" are not the actors in the drama. The complainers are the rest of the civilized world. Who do you imagine ISN'T howling at what's been occurring for the past three weeks?

The complainers didn't start the war. They're also not fighting the war. But they are well within the bounds of society to seek and end to the atrocities that have taken place on both side in the past three weeks. They don't need your approval, nor anyone's.

Look, if you like to see or hear that humans are being blown apart every day for three weeks, I guess you have to look within and find what makes you actually tick because it sure as hell isn't compassion.

This is not true, you act as if the Palestinians have had this immense power to galvanize the world to share their opinion and that is not true. Despite what you think this issue is not at the forefront of people's minds. In other words, the world population doesn't hate Jews as much as you do, you might think people are sitting around so irritated by Jews as much as you are but that is not true. I am learning that anti semetics use this language a lot, that the whole world know this or that about jews. Their hate is so insidious they think it is natural and that everyone feels it. In any event, even if the whole world hated Isreal, that doesn't mean that feeling is right (but again I don't think this is true anyway)

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Why does everything distill into "You hate the Jews"? This pathological need to label others as anti-semitic, without even knowing who they are, what they believe, or anything else is staggering to me. Nothing in anything I've written here or elsewhere in my lifetime expressed hatred for Jewish people. Do you just assign hatred whenever someone doesn't fold in the echo chamber and calls BS?

I’ve read much of the original thread and the arguments for Israel boil down to:

Well what do YOU think Israel should do? (Respect the Palestinians in the first place and not empower Hamas)

And

Objecting to Israel is antisemitism.

Everything in the 1000+ page thread boils down to these two sentiments. It’s very hard work to justify the collective punishment and annihilation of 2 million people, and posters here are lazy.

Respect them in the first place or you would have not been terrorized--sounding like street thugs who are always talking about pride and honor if you disrespect me I will cap you! Life isn't a 90s rap video Palestine supporters. Yeah so pin the post above so we can all see that yes, they see the Hamas attack as justified, because they were disrespected.

Again, let’s establish something:

Israel created Hamas. Then Israel empowered Hamas.

I guess that was a bad idea.

Sorry, you can’t pretend that Israel is a good faith actor or that the Palestinians, as a people, have been treated fairly or that history began on October 7. It just doesn’t work that way! The history is there for people to figure out.

This is a blatant and complete distortion. Israel did not create Hamas. This is the skewed statements that suggest your bias against Israel and implicit statement that Israeli deaths and kidnappings are their fault is atrocious.

Israel wants to exist. That is all. It is Hamas that wants to destroy it and before Hamas other Palestinian regimes. If there was no aggression against Israel, there would be no aggression from Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Israel killing Palestinian children?

Because some terrorists that run a large part of Palestine where those children live are holding 200 + people hostage, and are continually attacking Isreal with rockets from those kids homes, schools, hospitals. It’s a gd war. It’s tragic. You are a POS antisemite and you should be banned from this site.

why were they killing them before 10/7?

Because Hamas has been attacking Israel for almost two decades. Did you just start following Israel / Palestinian conflict on 10/7? Israel has been under repeated attack since its inception, including offenses by Jordan and Eygypt and terrorist groups. Constant violent attempts to destroy Israel.

And then Israel responds, as any nation would, and there’s howls of “See, look how awful Israel is! Collective punishment!” …. It’s such a sick double standard and one that is entirely based upon this bizarre notion that Israel should look the other way as it is repeatedly attacked. Why is there this double standard?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see Israel as the underdog—surrounded by enemies, hated by the UN, the list goes on. It really is fighting a multi-front war.

That’s quite the definition of underdog.

The country with the most sophisticated military in the region that also happens to be closely allied with the country boasting the most powerful military in the world. And they’re fighting an impoverished population that doesn’t even control their own water.

I don’t think underdog means what you think it means.

+1

Exactly.

Don't start a war if you don't want to fight one particularly if you are impoverished.

I believe this is more conventionally known as the "Know your place, boy" argument ...

Wait what? What are you talking about? I am confused. This isn't the American South where African Americans (my people) at times were called uppity if they were successful, your comparison doesn't make any sense. You are so used to use our struggle to try to justify whatever it is you think you are going through that you are now getting sloppy.

Restatement: I believe this is more conventionally known as the "Know your place, boy" argument ...

The fact that one diverse group was subjected to inhumanity across hundreds of years of slavery, having been shoved into the ground using this same phrase doesn't mean that another group cannot also suffer a grotesque fate (specifically, the sustained, humiliating, intentionally provocative order by "their betters" to accept their station in society and STFU about it, lest they get a good and thorough beating). You don't have exclusive rights to being marginalized by bad people. Today, the lynching is delivered at arms length via gleaming F-22 fighter jets that one side is gifted by guess who?

Uncle Sam, back at it again!

Again, you missed the whole point of "don't start a war you don't want to fight"--the point is go fight the war but don't complain when who you fight, fights back. Again, to cheaply gain sympathy from African Americans, you are making a comparison that literally makes no sense in the context of the conversation. No one is talking about no keep yourself in your place (yes I am using a double negative like a good black person when we are really trying to emphasize something by using AAVE intentionally)

[b]Those "complaining" are not the actors in the drama. The complainers are the rest of the civilized world. Who do you imagine ISN'T howling at what's been occurring for the past three weeks?

The complainers didn't start the war. They're also not fighting the war. But they are well within the bounds of society to seek and end to the atrocities that have taken place on both side in the past three weeks. They don't need your approval, nor anyone's.

Look, if you like to see or hear that humans are being blown apart every day for three weeks, I guess you have to look within and find what makes you actually tick because it sure as hell isn't compassion.

This is not true, you act as if the Palestinians have had this immense power to galvanize the world to share their opinion and that is not true. Despite what you think this issue is not at the forefront of people's minds. In other words, the world population doesn't hate Jews as much as you do, you might think people are sitting around so irritated by Jews as much as you are but that is not true. I am learning that anti semetics use this language a lot, that the whole world know this or that about jews. Their hate is so insidious they think it is natural and that everyone feels it. In any event, even if the whole world hated Isreal, that doesn't mean that feeling is right (but again I don't think this is true anyway)

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Why does everything distill into "You hate the Jews"? This pathological need to label others as anti-semitic, without even knowing who they are, what they believe, or anything else is staggering to me. Nothing in anything I've written here or elsewhere in my lifetime expressed hatred for Jewish people. Do you just assign hatred whenever someone doesn't fold in the echo chamber and calls BS?

I’ve read much of the original thread and the arguments for Israel boil down to:

Well what do YOU think Israel should do? (Respect the Palestinians in the first place and not empower Hamas)

And

Objecting to Israel is antisemitism.

Everything in the 1000+ page thread boils down to these two sentiments. It’s very hard work to justify the collective punishment and annihilation of 2 million people, and posters here are lazy.

Respect them in the first place or you would have not been terrorized--sounding like street thugs who are always talking about pride and honor if you disrespect me I will cap you! Life isn't a 90s rap video Palestine supporters. Yeah so pin the post above so we can all see that yes, they see the Hamas attack as justified, because they were disrespected.

Again, let’s establish something:

Israel created Hamas. Then Israel empowered Hamas.

I guess that was a bad idea.

Sorry, you can’t pretend that Israel is a good faith actor or that the Palestinians, as a people, have been treated fairly or that history began on October 7. It just doesn’t work that way! The history is there for people to figure out.

This is a blatant and complete distortion. Israel did not create Hamas. This is the skewed statements that suggest your bias against Israel and implicit statement that Israeli deaths and kidnappings are their fault is atrocious.

Israel wants to exist. That is all. It is Hamas that wants to destroy it and before Hamas other Palestinian regimes. If there was no aggression against Israel, there would be no aggression from Israel.

So simple, right?! But to exist Israel keeps its boot on the throat of millions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

DP. So you’re afraid that with or without Hamas, the Palestinians will treat the Israeli Jews how the Israelis are currently treating the Palestinians. Inhumane and third rate. That’s one of the same logic American slavers used to justify a continuation of slavery and later the prohibition of Blacks voting. That logic was also used for the continuation of an apartheid South Africa.

[Anonymous]

Question about Gaza.

Some of my friends keep making the point that Gaza could have been Dubai with all the aid they got.

But I also saw a show where the Palestinian fisherman aren’t allowed to leave the near shore.

Is it realistic to think that Gaza could have built ports and airports etc, if they are not allowed to even fish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My thoughts:
Send in a bus caravan from Egypt to evacuate this hospital to Egypt, incubators and all. If Hamas stops them, well true colors.

Egypt does not want Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My thoughts:
Send in a bus caravan from Egypt to evacuate this hospital to Egypt, incubators and all. If Hamas stops them, well true colors.

Egypt does not want Palestinians.

They also don't want Hamas next door. If evacuating the hospital allows the headquarters to be dispatched, I'm sure they would accept a small number of Red Cross ferried patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question about Gaza.

Some of my friends keep making the point that Gaza could have been Dubai with all the aid they got.

But I also saw a show where the Palestinian fisherman aren’t allowed to leave the near shore.

Is it realistic to think that Gaza could have built ports and airports etc, if they are not allowed to even fish?

Dubai;s economy is not based on fishing

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

And many on this thread have explained: the fact that Israel’s very existence is threatened by the prospect of ACTUAL democracy and human rights is not really our problem. It’s Israel’s problem of Israel’s creation.

If you want the land, you have to take the people ON the land. If you don’t want the people, you can’t have the land. If you want the land without the people, you’re going to have to have an apartheid state or genocide, and that’s a problem for the rest of us. I don’t need my tax money contributing to that.

If you think a government run by jihadis looks anything like democracy we are going nowhere in the conversation. Whack job.

So basically your position is that Palestinians can NEVER have their full human rights, because they are “jihadis.” Ok.

Umm … you termed Israel’s existence as being threatened by democracy. Care to elaborate? Because otherwise it seems like you’re calling Hamas democrats.

Why do you keep speaking Hamas. I think most posters are looking towards the future going forward. Isn’t it Biden and IDF’s mission to eradicate Hamas this week. If so, there is no Hamas and if people don’t want the beginning of a newer, deadlier and stronger Hamas, Israel and Biden need to find a way to include Palestinians in the landscape and not in an apartheid state of affairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question about Gaza.

Some of my friends keep making the point that Gaza could have been Dubai with all the aid they got.

But I also saw a show where the Palestinian fisherman aren’t allowed to leave the near shore.

Is it realistic to think that Gaza could have built ports and airports etc, if they are not allowed to even fish?

Dubai;s economy is not based on fishing

However, I see your point. No, I don't think Gaza would ever be Dubai level as an international hub with bustling ports and airports and people flying through from all around the world. It could have vertical hydroponic farms, desalinization plants and malls though. If peace were attained it could interlace its economy with West Bank, Egypt and Israel (where workers were already going). But this is pie in the sky. They chose to not pursue peace and not lay any groundwork for a functioning infrastructure.