MN Police Shoot and Kill Daunte Wright

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

So by your definition all non black people are inherently racist in everything they do when involving a black person because，”society”. Now that’s dumb.

You are finally getting it! However, you are too dumb to actually get it! Now, you are dumb, so sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are all these cops armed? In some European countries, they are not armed, at all.

Of course, here, everyone can get a gun, a weapon, so sick of it.

You can’t have a populace armed to the extent that Americans are armed and then not arm the police. At least not in a society as violent as ours. (We are very different from European countries in a myriad of ways. That should be obvious.)

Maybe it is time to change that? Stop selling guns all around? What the eff do people need guns for? WHen you realize your country kills left and right during traffic stops, maybe after decades of the same old, it is time to learn and change? But, no, stupid is as stupid does.

It’s not going to happen. It’s just not. Sure, I agree it would be a good thing but it’s not a realistic possibility. When Obama didn’t get gun control laws passed after Sandy Hook (or really do anything else to directly pursue gun control), the idea of scaling back gun ownership died.

Look, every country has problems that they can’t get under control. Every single one. This happens to be one of ours.

The guy that wrote this book: Children Under Fire (link below) was on NPR the other day. He actually gave me a little hope. He pointed out that after Sandy Hook many states actually did pass gun control laws and we now have the Moms Demand groups and Everytown for Gun Safety.

I don't think we are going to have a massive sea change, but I think we will have changes over the next generation, especially after the NRA goes down (which is happening now).

Link to book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062883933?ie=UTF8&tag=thewaspos09-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=0062883933

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

[Anonymous]

Not even remotely close to be a racial issue in this case. The Virginia case yes; this one, not hardly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I’ve only read one article and watched the video.

Questions:

-Did she and the other officers know they were arresting someone with an outstanding bench warrant?

-Did she know what the warrant was for?

-Doesn’t the fact that he was not only resisting arrest but actively fleeing warrant use of force such as a taser?

-Assuming that drawing the gun instead of the taser was a terrible mistake rather than her intended choice of weapon, why is this incident being labeled as fueled by racism? What would a black officer have done in that situation where someone resists and attempts to flee an arrest for an outstanding warrant (not a warrant for unpaid tickets, but for something serious as was the case here)? Taser him, correct?

Automatic license plate readers are extremely common on Police cruisers across the USA.

They scan EVERY license plate the cruiser passes (yes - your car too. Every time).

Registrations linked to outstanding criminal warrants appear automatically on the laptop present in every cruiser (yes, they have those too. Have for years).

Aren’t you smart? Clearly there either wasn’t a plate reader in the squad car in this situation, or the car was his mother’s. They didn’t learn he had an outstanding warrant until they took his ID back to the squad car and ran it there.

Regardless, the 3 police officers in the video were placing him under arrest due to an outstanding warrant for a rather serious reason. And, he resisted and was actively fleeing.

This doesn’t seem racially motivated at all.

Rather serious? He failed to appear in court on a permit ... <$500 fine and the court never notified him so his warrant wasn’t his fault.

The warrant causes a lot of confusion because there was a fulfilled warrant for a case that was working through the court system, that he had to be aware of, and an open warrant for failing to appear about another alleged incident June 30th. The notice of hearing for that was posted March 4th and there are no returned mail documentations under that case number.

The fulfilled warrant was for an alleged felony offense and he was given a conditional release after posting bond. He would also be obligated to provide a current address to the court for the ongoing case, but there’s a documentation that mail was returned under that case number.

A hearing for the alleged June incident was scheduled for 4/02, which he did not attend. It isn’t clear why he didn’t attend or what channels he would have been notified through.

Since he didn’t appear, the judge issued a warrant for a gross misdemeanor and that’s what the officers on Sunday were attempting to take him into custody for. I agree there are cases where people don’t know they have warrants or don’t understand what that means. However, if officers have a signed warrant you can (and probably will, under these circumstances) be detained and arrested regardless.

These are allegations and sometimes people are falsely accused.

Not relevant to him being fatally shot instead of tasered, since there’s never going to be any good reason for that to have happened. It’s pointless to even try to justify that.

But it is relevant to a limited extent of whether the officers were justified to attempt to detain him, and why the incident escalated so quickly when he attempted to re-enter the vehicle.

That's a lot of word to repeat what I said.

He had a court date.
The letter was never sent.
They erroneously put a warrant out for his arrest on a minor misdemeanor charge that was < $500 fine. That was the only thing the cops were arresting for.

It was a misdemeanor. ... it's against policy to chase a fleeing misdemeanor, they broke protocol to chase, they broke protocol to taser, they broke protocol to have the taser on the dominant side of the body....

because of their neglect a very young man is dead.

Wrong wrong wrong. The warrant was valid and it’s not up to officers to decide whether it was properly issued anyway. That is for a judge. If there is a warrant, they need to arrest. It is not against protocol to chase a fleeing misdemeanor - I think you are confusing it with high speed car chases, which are to be avoided because of the danger to the public. And it is obvious that the use of a taser was appropriate.

It is not up to the officers to know the warrant was erroneous. But it is on the state, which is why they are liable for their actions that caused this death.

If there is a felony warrant they need to arrest. If there is a misdemeanor warrant, they do not need to arrest.

Yes, it is against police procedure to chase a fleeing misdemeanor... you can only chase a fleeing felon because copse kill so many people in chases they made them illegal.

A taser was over use of power.
Putting the taser on the wrong side of your body is neglect.

It sucks, I feel for the officer. She made a mistake and it killed somebody, kind of like having 1 too many drinks at Xmas and killing somebody.

I’m sorry, you are just factually incorrect and clearly know nothing about policing.

Taser was clearly in policy here. Shooting him is not that far out of policy in mist places. It is but not by a lot if you watch the video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are all these cops armed? In some European countries, they are not armed, at all.

Of course, here, everyone can get a gun, a weapon, so sick of it.

There is no European country where all the police are not armed. There are countries where some of the police are not armed. Good luck getting anyone to take that job in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

People that believe this incident was not racially motivated believe the outcome would have been the same if the victim was white. Nothing changes but skin color. Still expired tags, outstanding warrant, the struggle, the mistake. Would she still mistake her gun for her taser if was white? How does anyone know that answer with certainty?

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, in yesterday's MN police news...

An officer attempting to make a traffic stop in Hutchinson, Minn., was dragged by the suspect driver and struck in the head with a hammer during the altercation. The injured officer, who has not been identified, was hospitalized with injuries, but was in stable condition as of late Wednesday, April 14. The suspect, 61-year-old Luke Alvin Oeltjenbruns, of Hutchinson, was arrested at the scene after the assault.

Let's all guess Mr. Oeltjenbruns's race.

But yeah, Black people need to learn how to follow police orders...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05_7wYUh5dw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

People that believe this incident was not racially motivated believe the outcome would have been the same if the victim was white. Nothing changes but skin color. Still expired tags, outstanding warrant, the struggle, the mistake. Would she still mistake her gun for her taser if was white? How does anyone know that answer with certainty?

Because she was a 26 year cop with no prior issues and was a training officer. Agencies know the racist or violent cops within. She does not fit the pattern of one. I know people now think everything is about race. Even if a lot of things are, not everything is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, in yesterday's MN police news...

An officer attempting to make a traffic stop in Hutchinson, Minn., was dragged by the suspect driver and struck in the head with a hammer during the altercation. The injured officer, who has not been identified, was hospitalized with injuries, but was in stable condition as of late Wednesday, April 14. The suspect, 61-year-old Luke Alvin Oeltjenbruns, of Hutchinson, was arrested at the scene after the assault.

Let's all guess Mr. Oeltjenbruns's race.

But yeah, Black people need to learn how to follow police orders...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05_7wYUh5dw

All people should follow police orders. That’s the thing. If they do, there is zero doubt that there will be fewer deaths by cops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

People that believe this incident was not racially motivated believe the outcome would have been the same if the victim was white. Nothing changes but skin color. Still expired tags, outstanding warrant, the struggle, the mistake. Would she still mistake her gun for her taser if was white? How does anyone know that answer with certainty?

Because she was a 26 year cop with no prior issues and was a training officer. Agencies know the racist or violent cops within. She does not fit the pattern of one. I know people now think everything is about race. Even if a lot of things are, not everything is.

Wow they already did an analysis that shows she used the same use of force with all white perps? That was fast,, have the data?

Of course not. You can be a good person and also erroneously treat black men as dangerous when they are not and treat white suspects with ease. But it’s still racist. A racist agency is not gonna recognize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

If you are going to use a fictitious movie to make your point, at least get it right. Dirty Harry said that to the man because he was about to draw his gun to shoot Harry. The target of the first Dirty Harry movie was a white serial killer who went after women and children. Stupid example, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was the incident not racially motivated? I mean, sure, the cop might not think she is racist, but she is exposed to the same indoctrination all of us are exposed to. Decades of only representing black men as criminals, as either a thug or a druggie, good for nothing...She can't escape it.
Only a moron doesn't see how deeply flawed the portrayal of Black people in America and even around the world.
How many of people watched Dirty Harry say, "well, do you punk?" And who is he about to shoot? A black man laying on the ground.
I bet you this would never have happened if they pulled over a white kid.
The first step, get rid of guns, do Australia here. Second, all you saying it was not racial, shut the eff up! It was 100%.
How are you so stupid?

People that believe this incident was not racially motivated believe the outcome would have been the same if the victim was white. Nothing changes but skin color. Still expired tags, outstanding warrant, the struggle, the mistake. Would she still mistake her gun for her taser if was white? How does anyone know that answer with certainty?

Because she was a 26 year cop with no prior issues and was a training officer. Agencies know the racist or violent cops within. She does not fit the pattern of one. I know people now think everything is about race. Even if a lot of things are, not everything is.

I agree. I don’t think this sad incident was about race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Years ago a white college student who grew up in my area was murdered. She pulled over for someone impersonating a cop on a highway at 1am.
After that happened, it was DRILLED into us - a bunch of young white women - that we should never, ever, ever pull over for someone if we're on a quiet road at night. If a cop tries to pull us over, we should slow down but keep driving to someplace well lit and well populated.

Is that fleeing? Is that resisting arrest? Would that get me killed?
No to all of those, because I'm a tiny white lady.

When a black person gets pulled over, he has a reasonable reason to be fearful of the cop. I have a hard time blaming someone trying to get out of a scary situation.