Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a huge difference to the kids though to have a more relaxed morning and to be able to come home and rest after school instead of staying in aftercare.

I stopped working when I had my kids, went back part-time when they started school and now that they are in high school I am increasing my hours close to full-time. I have always worked from home and have an intellectually stimulating job.

I realize that I am very lucky and not everyone has the same options as I do. I have no judgment, only sympathy, for those who would prefer to stay home with kids but have to work due to financial reasons.

I will never regret staying home with the kids when they were young. I truly believe that having one lovung and engaged parent stay home is the very best for the children. Those were also some of the best years of my life and I am forever grateful that I had the opportunity.

Our aftercare was so much fun at our school that SAHMs also sent their kids 2-3 days a week because it was one big playdate and they felt left out.

I think it’s good to have 2 engaged parents and we need to start making dads part of the equation.

I agree. I much prefer that our kids spend their after school with a mix of nanny, DH and me rather than 100% with me. And because DH doesn’t have to be sole breadwinner, he took a job that doesn’t require him to work weekends, so we can hang out together all weekend.

The three SAHMs I know well, their husbands are a mess. Totally checked out. Even if they don’t work many hours, they spend a ton of free time on their phone because they “earned” it by being the sole breadwinner.

+1 When I was a sahm with DC#2 they became super attached, had a hard time transitioning to prek and K. DC#1 went to daycare like 6 hours a day and didn't have any issues transitioning.

DH came home around 4:30 and spent a lot of time with the kids. At one point, we also had a nanny. So, we've had a mix of daycare, nanny, and sahm.

I think it really helps the parent and kid to have a village raise a child. And 100% dads should be involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

It’s pretty reflective of everyone I know in my close in UMC neighborhood. Lots of feds who work from home a few days a week. My neighbor who is a big law partner works from home 2-3 days a week. My friend’s DH is in finance (has equity in the company) and is home most days unless going to client meetings. And then there are some people with part time jobs. It’s not like the options are be a SAHM or a full time working mom. I have friends who cut back hours to do part time 20 hour/week consulting. Or one parent is a teacher and gets all the breaks/holidays off to align with the kids.

I actually don’t know anyone with 2 parents who both work out of the house every day and have long commutes. Especially post COVID when so much is set up to be virtual now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

This lady sounds like she works 5 hours per day and also has a husband who does not have a demanding job.

Plenty of people can finish work by 3:30 if they start early and don’t have a commute. Getting off at 3:30 likely means starting work around 7-7:30 am. And yeah there is a quality of life decision to not having a demanding job. Working long inflexible hours is not the flex you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

I mean even in your example "we were able to" sounds very off-putting. Why not just "we bought a red car."

[Anonymous]

nothing offends me. it is easier that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

This lady sounds like she works 5 hours per day and also has a husband who does not have a demanding job.

Plenty of people can finish work by 3:30 if they start early and don’t have a commute. Getting off at 3:30 likely means starting work around 7-7:30 am. And yeah there is a quality of life decision to not having a demanding job. Working long inflexible hours is not the flex you think it is.

Most professionals have deliverables, they can do their work independently and don't need to be meeting with people all day or every day, just get their work done by the due date.

My staff, who are engineers, just need to get their work done. Some of it is in the evening when users are not online but mostly it's whenever they can get it done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

I mean even in your example "we were able to" sounds very off-putting. Why not just "we bought a red car."

DP: Because then it fails to acknowledge that you need more money to afford the red car and that the red car is a privilege, so not acknowledging that it is a luxury sounds tone deaf too. It's a lose-lose situation and best to simply yell, "Squirrel!" while pointing to the left when someone asks you what you do for work or why you don't work. People look for reasons to be offended by and look down on your choice to stay home or simply try to humiliate you. It's most often the very reason they ask. You just need to change the subject and refuse to answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I do not like incomplete statements that does not tell the whole truth.

In the context of highly educated UMC women in DMV who choose to SAH the complete statement would be - We are financially well off, we have a solid marriage, we are very well educated, we are priviledged in many ways, we have outsourced many domestic chores and my being home to raise kids is valued immensely by my DH. WE also didn't want someone else to raise our kids

This is the most interesting of the posts I've read here (not all). I think you're so right on this being the full story for some, but this definitely sounds impolite to say. Though all of it would become apparent to another person by spending enough time with the family to understand the full dynamic.

As usual, there are plenty of reactive responses here, but what is the constructive advice from the camp that doesn't want a SAHP to say this phrase? In this area I'm still frequently asked by people who don't know me well, "...and what do you do?" I would much rather give a little more context than simply, "I currently care for my children." That's not how conversations work. It's an incomplete answer. I am still a licensed professional in the behavioral health field. My actual choice was to continue to apply my training with other people's children while paying someone else to care for mine or use the skills I'd built for many years to care for the children I also waited through many years of infertility to have. When someone says, "I don't want to pay for other people to raise my kids," there are probably several personal layers embedded that have nothing to do with other people's choice.

Still, if people in the "never say that" camp have a helpful different idea for what to say in that common social situation, that would keep the conversation interesting, truthful, and inoffensive, please share.

Why not just says “I worked as a behavioral _____ for a decade and have now shifted gears to staying home with the kids.”

I promise no one cares that much about your “why” and if they really pry then they’re being rude so give whatever response you want. But most people who aren’t close enough with you to know you are a SAHM are just making small talk when they ask “what do you do.”It’s not my personal go to question because most people’s jobs are boring and I don’t want to talk to them about work. But the ones who do ask aren’t trying to prod you for information on your fertility and finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

This lady sounds like she works 5 hours per day and also has a husband who does not have a demanding job.

Plenty of people can finish work by 3:30 if they start early and don’t have a commute. Getting off at 3:30 likely means starting work around 7-7:30 am. And yeah there is a quality of life decision to not having a demanding job. Working long inflexible hours is not the flex you think it is.

That level of flexibility isn't even in middle school yet. You need to recognize that many people who still have kids in school today and who chose to stay at home began their careers and families in a world that still required pantyhose in an office dress code, weren't sure if it was worth it to buy that new luxury called a flip phone, were in awe of the millionaires who had a two-way pager called a blackberry, and had just learned a new dirty word: telecommuting. This year's senior class was being born when the very first iPhone came out (and only the very rich could buy them).

As an aside, the first FMLA babies just turned 30, and when it first passed, people were afraid to use it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

Glad they figured it out too. They tend to be absent from these discussions because there’s a lot of … its impossible to work my H is big law or surgeon and I could only find hubs that had me out of the house from 6-6.

But I agree the majority of families working or with a SAHP don’t have these crazy situations where one or the other parent isn’t home most of the time.

The idea kids are in daycare 8 or 10 or 12 hours are just horror stories made up to justify not working. Most kids have about 3-4 waking hours in other people’s care until they go to school then it’s about 7 hours whether you work or not, unless you homeschool …Except teen athletes they are gone all day.

So many families have figured it out but I guess someone has to marry surgeons and big law partners. Actually they usually have a few wives throughout their life.

Lady, you’re officially batsh!t crazy. Or a troll. Or both.

Most working people have a schedule that vaguely falls around 9-5:30 plus morning and evening commute. How can you live in this area and apparently not know a single Fed, let alone dual Fed couples?

Feds can work a 6-2:30 schedule while the other parent works 9:30-6.

That means 1 parent does am and the other does afternoons.

Not all feds can do this. If you work with a lot of west coast or Pacific island folks in a national program, you can't get off at 2:30 (my situation). Plenty of offices have core hours starting before 9 and ending after 3. Some jobs require specific shifts (e.g. any law enforcement or customer facing job).

Shift work is perfect. No care or very little care needed.

I didn’t say everyone can do that but many feds do. The vast majority of feds and contractors who work at fed agencies. Also many time IT staff work shortened day and do upgrades after hours.

People who are doing research don’t need to read and write 9-5.

I agree don’t work for DOD.

Our core hours are 10-2.

If this is accurate, you’ll never get promoted or mange anyone. Working four hours a day is ripping off taxpayers and it’s lazy. I’m a fed and there’s no way this would fly at my agency or with me if I was your manager. Whatever you think you’re proving here about childcare you’re not. You’re just making feds look like they take advantage of WFH.

I not only got promoted but I have incentive pay.

no one working 10-2 doing the work day is getting this. This is your personal fantasy because you can’t stand that someone is a SAHP but instead of accepting that you are masquerading as a fed working a 20 hour week getting promoted. I’m sure you’re the head of the FBI. I’m sure you’re doing it all. Whatever you need to hear that you didn’t hear as a kid here you go.

I was just going to comment that I know some feds who probably barely clock in 20 hours. They are the ones who earn 100-150k, barely work and not getting promoted. These friends are always available to hang out or go to their kids appointments, drive them to school, to sports, etc. I don’t think you can compare someone like this to a big law partner, C level executive, surgeon, etc

Yeah. I think it’s fair to say someone working 20 hours a week making $100K is not the same as an NEO or Section 16 employee let alone a surgeon.

Did someone say that it was?

The person I was responding to was clarifying that they know other underachievers like you and felt it was helpful to call out you were not like a surgeon or clevel. I was responding to that. Do you only read during your core hours?

I wild to see how irrationally angry you get at my amazing work schedule.

I make more than twice what you are your husband make and that’s a fraction of my HHI. I also see my husband in and morning and at night. I feel bad that you guys don’t have the intellectual capability to get better jobs, but you seem like you’re proud of barely working so a real job wouldn’t work out. I have lots of respect for working parents and stay at home parents. Parents who pretend to work and parent at the same time and do a bad job of both- those are the people I don’t respect. I feel bad for you and your kids.

I don't know, PP. Based on your response, I feel bad for you and your kids. I hope that attitude and insecurity aren't passed along to your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

This lady sounds like she works 5 hours per day and also has a husband who does not have a demanding job.

Plenty of people can finish work by 3:30 if they start early and don’t have a commute. Getting off at 3:30 likely means starting work around 7-7:30 am. And yeah there is a quality of life decision to not having a demanding job. Working long inflexible hours is not the flex you think it is.

That level of flexibility isn't even in middle school yet. You need to recognize that many people who still have kids in school today and who chose to stay at home began their careers and families in a world that still required pantyhose in an office dress code, weren't sure if it was worth it to buy that new luxury called a flip phone, were in awe of the millionaires who had a two-way pager called a blackberry, and had just learned a new dirty word: telecommuting. This year's senior class was being born when the very first iPhone came out (and only the very rich could buy them).

As an aside, the first FMLA babies just turned 30, and when it first passed, people were afraid to use it.

Yet we figured out how to have 2 flexible schedules, short commutes and WAH days and I miss my blackberry but don’t miss pantyhose.

WAH was around 25 years ago.

Maternity leave no do much but LWOP was.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

Glad they figured it out too. They tend to be absent from these discussions because there’s a lot of … its impossible to work my H is big law or surgeon and I could only find hubs that had me out of the house from 6-6.

But I agree the majority of families working or with a SAHP don’t have these crazy situations where one or the other parent isn’t home most of the time.

The idea kids are in daycare 8 or 10 or 12 hours are just horror stories made up to justify not working. Most kids have about 3-4 waking hours in other people’s care until they go to school then it’s about 7 hours whether you work or not, unless you homeschool …Except teen athletes they are gone all day.

So many families have figured it out but I guess someone has to marry surgeons and big law partners. Actually they usually have a few wives throughout their life.

Lady, you’re officially batsh!t crazy. Or a troll. Or both.

Most working people have a schedule that vaguely falls around 9-5:30 plus morning and evening commute. How can you live in this area and apparently not know a single Fed, let alone dual Fed couples?

Feds can work a 6-2:30 schedule while the other parent works 9:30-6.

That means 1 parent does am and the other does afternoons.

Not all feds can do this. If you work with a lot of west coast or Pacific island folks in a national program, you can't get off at 2:30 (my situation). Plenty of offices have core hours starting before 9 and ending after 3. Some jobs require specific shifts (e.g. any law enforcement or customer facing job).

Shift work is perfect. No care or very little care needed.

I didn’t say everyone can do that but many feds do. The vast majority of feds and contractors who work at fed agencies. Also many time IT staff work shortened day and do upgrades after hours.

People who are doing research don’t need to read and write 9-5.

I agree don’t work for DOD.

Our core hours are 10-2.

If this is accurate, you’ll never get promoted or mange anyone. Working four hours a day is ripping off taxpayers and it’s lazy. I’m a fed and there’s no way this would fly at my agency or with me if I was your manager. Whatever you think you’re proving here about childcare you’re not. You’re just making feds look like they take advantage of WFH.

I not only got promoted but I have incentive pay.

no one working 10-2 doing the work day is getting this. This is your personal fantasy because you can’t stand that someone is a SAHP but instead of accepting that you are masquerading as a fed working a 20 hour week getting promoted. I’m sure you’re the head of the FBI. I’m sure you’re doing it all. Whatever you need to hear that you didn’t hear as a kid here you go.

I was just going to comment that I know some feds who probably barely clock in 20 hours. They are the ones who earn 100-150k, barely work and not getting promoted. These friends are always available to hang out or go to their kids appointments, drive them to school, to sports, etc. I don’t think you can compare someone like this to a big law partner, C level executive, surgeon, etc

Yeah. I think it’s fair to say someone working 20 hours a week making $100K is not the same as an NEO or Section 16 employee let alone a surgeon.

Did someone say that it was?

The person I was responding to was clarifying that they know other underachievers like you and felt it was helpful to call out you were not like a surgeon or clevel. I was responding to that. Do you only read during your core hours?

I wild to see how irrationally angry you get at my amazing work schedule.

I make more than twice what you are your husband make and that’s a fraction of my HHI. I also see my husband in and morning and at night. I feel bad that you guys don’t have the intellectual capability to get better jobs, but you seem like you’re proud of barely working so a real job wouldn’t work out. I have lots of respect for working parents and stay at home parents. Parents who pretend to work and parent at the same time and do a bad job of both- those are the people I don’t respect. I feel bad for you and your kids.

I don't know, PP. Based on your response, I feel bad for you and your kids. I hope that attitude and insecurity aren't passed along to your kids.

I think she was drinking heavy last night.

But if my H was making $2M he’d go 1/2 time and make $1M to be with our kids.

Some of us value 2 parents over money.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I don’t believe you’re a working parent. My toddler is at preschool 9-4. During which she sleeps 2 hours. So 5 waking hours. She has a parent with her 7-9 and 4-7:30. So 5.5 waking hours. Plus weekends. Plus they close every single federal holiday, spring break, summer break, Christmas break, teacher workdays, and add in illnesses. I’d be shocked if she ever actually goes more than 25-30 hours/week and this is pretty standard for most dual working parent households I know. Plenty of us have 2 spouses with lots of flexibility and WAH. I work 7-3:30 and DH works 9-5:30 (sometimes earlier and he catches up at night if I need help getting a kid to an after school activity).

Also while our kids are at preschool/school I can squeeze in laundry, gym, grocery shopping etc. on breaks so we can prioritize family time during the evenings/weekends.

I really don’t care whether someone chooses to work or not, but I think it’s provincial if you envision most kids of working parents being in daycare for 10-11 hours, 5 days a week. This is not the norm for a single dual income household I know. I’ve thrown my kids birthday parties in the middle of a weekday off school and there’s tons of working parents able to shuttle their kids to laser tag at 2 pm on a Wednesday. Lots of moms and dads hanging out at the playground when school gets let out.

Being a working parent in 2024 means you can earn 6 figures, attend your kid’s school events, chaperone the field trips, and coach 5 pm soccer. Many of the DCUM working parents fall into this category.

First off, I don’t believe you are full time working parent because if your child is in preschool 7 hours a day and you have any sort of commute and do a bunch of errands and work out you during that period you are working a much shorter workday than a full time employee. You’re working part-time.

I’ve only worked in tech and finance, but in those industries it’s really common for people who say they work full time to work a full work day. That’s because you generally get fired if you’re not able to do your work in a timely manner on a regular basis, and anyone who only has 3-4 hours of work each day is not someone who is likely to advance or remain employed in the long term. That generally means that people who I work with either have nannies or decline laser tag invites in the middle of the day when their children are in preschool.

I have three children and I make $365K. I have a very flexible job that allows me to be present for my children a lot and allows me to minimize the number of hours that I’m not with my kids during the day, which is great because even though my husband earns significantly more and has significantly greater upside with comp, he has a far less flexible schedule. And we have an amazing nanny.

Working full time is a trade off. I’m very comfortable with that trade off because we have an amazing nanny and because I really love my work and don’t want to be a stay at home parent. However, I understood and understand the trade offs and I’m not offended when someone tells me that they also understood the trade offs particular to their situation and decided to stay home. Most working parents do not coach soccer at 5 if they have a demanding job. Most working parents use daycare for 10 hours a day (most working parents have commutes and work a standard work day of 8-9 hours so using anything less than 10 hours of childcare would be really hard). Life is full of trade offs: no one can have it all. Deal with it instead of trying to police what people say to you or what people should hypothetically say to you about something you already know.

I commute from my bedroom to my home office. DH handles kids in the am so I can start work early. I am done by 3:30. Laundry gets moved around in between meetings. Gym on my lunch break a couple days per week. Online grocery order for curbside pickup during lunch break. Helps to live in a walkable area so I can get errands done easily. I am almost never in a car and don’t deal with traffic. Too many people give up hours of their lives to the car. It’s totally possible to work FT and not have FT childcare if your spouse is an equal partner and you don’t have a commute.

It doesn’t sound like you’re working 40 hours a week. It also doesn’t sound like your set up is in any way representative of the vast majority of dual working parents who commute into an office and work a normal 8-9 hour day. Your assertion that most people only use 7 hours of childcare each day is incorrect.

This lady sounds like she works 5 hours per day and also has a husband who does not have a demanding job.

Plenty of people can finish work by 3:30 if they start early and don’t have a commute. Getting off at 3:30 likely means starting work around 7-7:30 am. And yeah there is a quality of life decision to not having a demanding job. Working long inflexible hours is not the flex you think it is.

Most professionals have deliverables, they can do their work independently and don't need to be meeting with people all day or every day, just get their work done by the due date.

My staff, who are engineers, just need to get their work done. Some of it is in the evening when users are not online but mostly it's whenever they can get it done.

DP. +1 This is my job (not an engineer) too. My kids are ES age -- I do some work before they get up in the morning, I help them get ready in the morning and see them onto the bus, I then work until about 3:30 when they get off the bus. I typically log back on in the evening and work after they go to bed. I'm working more than 8 hour days, but no one is checking regardless. It would be clear if I wasn't. I don't have many meetings, etc... jobs are so variable. Since my kids have been in ES, we no longer have childcare or use before or after care. This does work for some jobs. No need to be offended. Lots of families are able to stagger schedules once their kids are in ES to minimize childcare because you really don't need to shift hours all the much given school hours. And for others that doesn't work.

Cool story about that one mouse-toggling friend, but that's not what most of us are doing

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

Glad they figured it out too. They tend to be absent from these discussions because there’s a lot of … its impossible to work my H is big law or surgeon and I could only find hubs that had me out of the house from 6-6.

But I agree the majority of families working or with a SAHP don’t have these crazy situations where one or the other parent isn’t home most of the time.

The idea kids are in daycare 8 or 10 or 12 hours are just horror stories made up to justify not working. Most kids have about 3-4 waking hours in other people’s care until they go to school then it’s about 7 hours whether you work or not, unless you homeschool …Except teen athletes they are gone all day.

So many families have figured it out but I guess someone has to marry surgeons and big law partners. Actually they usually have a few wives throughout their life.

Lady, you’re officially batsh!t crazy. Or a troll. Or both.

Most working people have a schedule that vaguely falls around 9-5:30 plus morning and evening commute. How can you live in this area and apparently not know a single Fed, let alone dual Fed couples?

Feds can work a 6-2:30 schedule while the other parent works 9:30-6.

That means 1 parent does am and the other does afternoons.

Not all feds can do this. If you work with a lot of west coast or Pacific island folks in a national program, you can't get off at 2:30 (my situation). Plenty of offices have core hours starting before 9 and ending after 3. Some jobs require specific shifts (e.g. any law enforcement or customer facing job).

Shift work is perfect. No care or very little care needed.

I didn’t say everyone can do that but many feds do. The vast majority of feds and contractors who work at fed agencies. Also many time IT staff work shortened day and do upgrades after hours.

People who are doing research don’t need to read and write 9-5.

I agree don’t work for DOD.

Our core hours are 10-2.

If this is accurate, you’ll never get promoted or mange anyone. Working four hours a day is ripping off taxpayers and it’s lazy. I’m a fed and there’s no way this would fly at my agency or with me if I was your manager. Whatever you think you’re proving here about childcare you’re not. You’re just making feds look like they take advantage of WFH.

I not only got promoted but I have incentive pay.

no one working 10-2 doing the work day is getting this. This is your personal fantasy because you can’t stand that someone is a SAHP but instead of accepting that you are masquerading as a fed working a 20 hour week getting promoted. I’m sure you’re the head of the FBI. I’m sure you’re doing it all. Whatever you need to hear that you didn’t hear as a kid here you go.

I was just going to comment that I know some feds who probably barely clock in 20 hours. They are the ones who earn 100-150k, barely work and not getting promoted. These friends are always available to hang out or go to their kids appointments, drive them to school, to sports, etc. I don’t think you can compare someone like this to a big law partner, C level executive, surgeon, etc

Yeah. I think it’s fair to say someone working 20 hours a week making $100K is not the same as an NEO or Section 16 employee let alone a surgeon.

100k is like 50k when I graduated from college 20+ years ago so if a 40 something year old is coasting on this salary, that person doesn’t need to work very hard.

I can think of 2 annoying women in my life who could be the pp saying she spends equal time with her kids or they don’t need childcare. They don’t have high earning husbands so husbands also flex. They absolutely do spend a lot of time with kids and not so much time working. One friend wakes up and wiggles her mouse at 6 so she starts work then. Then goes for a run or bikes on her peloton, showers, answers an email, gets kids ready for school, drives kids to school and starts work at 930 but she has already clocked in for 3.5 hours. So someone like pp who does this can spend the same amount of time with kids if kids are in school.

When you have a real job no one tracks when you answer your first email. It’s about your work. And answering an email or emails for 5-20 minutes is not work. It’s ancillary. But you’d only know that if you had a job that required real work.

Yes, her core working hours are also 10-2 with a lunch break in the middle.

I'm not sure people are understanding what "core hours" means. It doesn't mean you only work during those hours. It means you don't flex your schedule during those hours so you reliably overlap with others. E.g. if core hours are 10-2, you could have one person on a 6-2:30 schedule and one person 10-7, and they'd try to meet during the overlap 10-2. You have a full workday, but your personal start and end times have to be before and after the end of core hours.

My core hours are 9-3:30. I start work at 7 or 7:30 and end between 3:30 and 5, with an 8 hour minimum. Do people think I'm only working 6.5 hours?!

Are you related to the person working core hours of 10-2 but staring work at 5 am by waving your mouse on a track pad before going on the peloton for three hours before taking your children to school and then spending the rest of your day observing stay at home moms at the pool and grocery store, among other places? I’m getting lost in your various fantasy worlds. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote so you can make sure it’s coherent because in this post your work hours have changed. I’m assuming you’re completely dropping the other story about working in finance and having a nanny for three disjointed hours of the day and want to double down on the fed with core hours thing?

Um...nope. I'm a totally different person. As I said, I work 8 hours a day with core hours 9-3:30. Don't work in finance or have a nanny or peloton. (If my DH made 7 figures like apparently most of them in this thread, sure, I'd be a SAHM with a peloton too!)