At wits' end with potty training 3yr old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nanny is an option.

Other options
1) Stays with a family with a potty trained boy his age - peer pressure
2) Stays with a male role model he wants to impress like an uncle
3) Unfamiliar setting with no diapers preferably with other kids where he would be embarrassed to be having accidents (e.g. camping)
4) If you have a back yard or a house without carpet he loses his pants privileges (preferably start this out on a 3 day weekend). Train the baby too.

Someone is going to say we're evil, but my son did one ninja poop (ran off and hid to crap his pants) and DH sprayed him with the diaper sprayer - that was the last ninja poop

Lots of the items on that list don't work during COVID. And basically none of them work if we can't get the daycare to go along with it.

Camping is still on and you can't put this on the daycare's plate. They have a higher ratio of children to adults than you do.

Camping would not be an option with our other child. That would be a very dangerous situation.

Then you go alone with him. I see why your kid isn't trained, you are lightening quick to come up with excuses

F you. If you think you can do better, we'll set up a time to meet and you can take him for couple weeks. If not, then STFU.

I would bet a million dollars I would have this kid trained in 3 days with my diaper sprayer and my hand (spanking).

New excuse incoming in 3... 2... 1...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely cut out potty training and start parenting books instead. I think there's a disconnect between your kids and yourself and your son is struggling for control.

Oh crap is a book for 20-30 month olds. After that, it has to be the kid's decision and you have to talk a lot more about it.

I've never found a parenting book that isn't crap. I've got a bookshelf full of them. They all seem to assume you have a child that wants to please you or that responds to positive reinforcement.

I have bad news. Spanking works and when you take it away half of kids will be brats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely cut out potty training and start parenting books instead. I think there's a disconnect between your kids and yourself and your son is struggling for control.

Oh crap is a book for 20-30 month olds. After that, it has to be the kid's decision and you have to talk a lot more about it.

I've never found a parenting book that isn't crap. I've got a bookshelf full of them. They all seem to assume you have a child that wants to please you or that responds to positive reinforcement.

You have the wrong mindset. He's THREE. Deep down he does want positive reinforcement and to please you. You're just not seeing it because you're not parenting well. Take parenting classes instead. There are tons of books for defiant kids. Parenting should be a joy and somehow you've lost that. It's just potty training. Put him in a diaper and stick him back in daycare, it's not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nanny is an option.

Other options
1) Stays with a family with a potty trained boy his age - peer pressure
2) Stays with a male role model he wants to impress like an uncle
3) Unfamiliar setting with no diapers preferably with other kids where he would be embarrassed to be having accidents (e.g. camping)
4) If you have a back yard or a house without carpet he loses his pants privileges (preferably start this out on a 3 day weekend). Train the baby too.

Someone is going to say we're evil, but my son did one ninja poop (ran off and hid to crap his pants) and DH sprayed him with the diaper sprayer - that was the last ninja poop

Lots of the items on that list don't work during COVID. And basically none of them work if we can't get the daycare to go along with it.

Camping is still on and you can't put this on the daycare's plate. They have a higher ratio of children to adults than you do.

Camping would not be an option with our other child. That would be a very dangerous situation.

Then you go alone with him. I see why your kid isn't trained, you are lightening quick to come up with excuses

F you. If you think you can do better, we'll set up a time to meet and you can take him for couple weeks. If not, then STFU.

I would bet a million dollars I would have this kid trained in 3 days with my diaper sprayer and my hand (spanking).

New excuse incoming in 3... 2... 1...

I'm not necessarily opposed to spanking, but I'm not sure how to incorporate that into potty training. Spank after accidents? What about when he refuses to sit on the potty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely cut out potty training and start parenting books instead. I think there's a disconnect between your kids and yourself and your son is struggling for control.

Oh crap is a book for 20-30 month olds. After that, it has to be the kid's decision and you have to talk a lot more about it.

I've never found a parenting book that isn't crap. I've got a bookshelf full of them. They all seem to assume you have a child that wants to please you or that responds to positive reinforcement.

You have the wrong mindset. He's THREE. Deep down he does want positive reinforcement and to please you. You're just not seeing it because you're not parenting well. Take parenting classes instead. There are tons of books for defiant kids. Parenting should be a joy and somehow you've lost that. It's just potty training. Put him in a diaper and stick him back in daycare, it's not a big deal.

Parenting is miserable. I could maybe handle one of these kids, but having both is terrible. I don't think anyone who says parenting is a "joy" has a kid with special needs. And all those books and classes on "difficult" children are clearly written by people that clearly didn't actually have difficult children.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think it’s clear that the potty training isn’t the main problem here. You have two kids with special needs, you’re overwhelmed, and you’re stressed to the point that you dismiss every idea and give up on a hair trigger. Of course it’s not working! I think you need to put the potty training on hold, meet with a social worker or counselor and come up with a plan to have more support.

[Anonymous]

Wow this thread took a turn. Which I'm disappointed about because I am the PP with the similarly hard to potty train 3 yr DD and would love an actual productive conversation.

My kid is actually incredibly compliant in general but very obstinate on the subject of potty training. She has always been an "easy" kid and these issues with potty training took us by surprise -- she generally listens to us, is conscientious, and while she tests boundaries. Based on our own experience and conversations with the pediatrician and behavioral specialists, we think her "easy" tendencies are actually just causing a lot of anxiety around potty training. It took her a while to figure out when her body needed to go and then to figure out how it actually works to go in the potty. That's normal for kids, but for our DD, it seems to have caused a lot of fear of failure and perfectionism. We really tried not to feed into this at all but when it's this severe you can't help but blame yourself. I regret doing the "potty training bootcamps" because I think for our child specifically, they caused her to become really stressed about potty training early on (we started around 24 months) and it has only gotten worse as we go forward. But there is so much pressure to potty train early. Look at all the people in this thread who are just saying "you waited too long."

It is a catch 22. You are told by many to train on the early side before they hit the toddler phase of "no". Makes sense. But then if it doesn't work and your kid still isn't trained by 3, you are told by many that the problem is that you started to early, gave your kid a complex, and set them up for failure. Also makes logical sense but wow is that tough to hear, and it also doesn't help you at all when you have a 3 yr old who WILL NOT USE THE POTTY.

Anyway, I also think Covid and disruptions in childcare and massive changes in home life has made this the worst possible year to potty train. I often think it would have gone much smoother if we hadn't had a 4.5 month hiatus from daycare last year, and/or I could have mostly potty trained her in our house while my DH went to work. I don't think having everyone at home all the time made potty training easier even though it sounds convenient. I think you actually need the pressure and consistency of normal work/daycare/school schedules to keep potty training manageable.

Everyone potty trains. My kid might not (probably won't) train until she's 4, which is a bummer for her and for me and for the environment. It's not the outcome I wanted and I genuinely tried to prevent it from happening, but here we are. I don't think getting angry and shaming about it is useful for anyone, nor is saying "You did it wrong." I mean, obviously, but I can't change it now and I certainly went into it with the best intentions. Sometimes you gotta take the L and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you tried giving your child more control over other parts of his life? Can you let him make his own breakfast? Give him choices for everything instead of telling him what's going to happen? Let him have some control, that's what this is about.

Make his own breakfast? Is that normal for a three year old? He refuses to eat anything besides yogurt anyway.

I’m seeing a pattern here. You are letting him get way to much of his own way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nanny is an option.

Other options
1) Stays with a family with a potty trained boy his age - peer pressure
2) Stays with a male role model he wants to impress like an uncle
3) Unfamiliar setting with no diapers preferably with other kids where he would be embarrassed to be having accidents (e.g. camping)
4) If you have a back yard or a house without carpet he loses his pants privileges (preferably start this out on a 3 day weekend). Train the baby too.

Someone is going to say we're evil, but my son did one ninja poop (ran off and hid to crap his pants) and DH sprayed him with the diaper sprayer - that was the last ninja poop

Lots of the items on that list don't work during COVID. And basically none of them work if we can't get the daycare to go along with it.

Camping is still on and you can't put this on the daycare's plate. They have a higher ratio of children to adults than you do.

Camping would not be an option with our other child. That would be a very dangerous situation.

Then you go alone with him. I see why your kid isn't trained, you are lightening quick to come up with excuses

F you. If you think you can do better, we'll set up a time to meet and you can take him for couple weeks. If not, then STFU.

I would bet a million dollars I would have this kid trained in 3 days with my diaper sprayer and my hand (spanking).

New excuse incoming in 3... 2... 1...

I'm not necessarily opposed to spanking, but I'm not sure how to incorporate that into potty training. Spank after accidents? What about when he refuses to sit on the potty?

Now things are getting crazy. Do not spank your kid over potty training! That’s mean and counterproductive. Besides how would you tell real accidents from defiance accidents???

What you should try is being very dispassionate and even empathetic but making your kid take a shower after every accident. Yes, it sucks and is more a punishment for you, but this is the fastest way to potty train when you’re facing defiance. You should be kind and calm when talking to your kid.
“You had an accident, time to get in shower.”
Blah blah tears or tantrum
“Yes, I know it’s hard to stop playing to get cleaned up. You have to be clean to play. First you get cleaned up, then you can play.”

Carry him if you have to. Do not get angry, just be a neutral enforcer of natural consequences. You have to be super consistent AND calm for this to work. A 3 year old is sophisticated enough to tell when they’re pushing your buttons and turn it into a power struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow this thread took a turn. Which I'm disappointed about because I am the PP with the similarly hard to potty train 3 yr DD and would love an actual productive conversation.

My kid is actually incredibly compliant in general but very obstinate on the subject of potty training. She has always been an "easy" kid and these issues with potty training took us by surprise -- she generally listens to us, is conscientious, and while she tests boundaries. Based on our own experience and conversations with the pediatrician and behavioral specialists, we think her "easy" tendencies are actually just causing a lot of anxiety around potty training. It took her a while to figure out when her body needed to go and then to figure out how it actually works to go in the potty. That's normal for kids, but for our DD, it seems to have caused a lot of fear of failure and perfectionism. We really tried not to feed into this at all but when it's this severe you can't help but blame yourself. I regret doing the "potty training bootcamps" because I think for our child specifically, they caused her to become really stressed about potty training early on (we started around 24 months) and it has only gotten worse as we go forward. But there is so much pressure to potty train early. Look at all the people in this thread who are just saying "you waited too long."

It is a catch 22. You are told by many to train on the early side before they hit the toddler phase of "no". Makes sense. But then if it doesn't work and your kid still isn't trained by 3, you are told by many that the problem is that you started to early, gave your kid a complex, and set them up for failure. Also makes logical sense but wow is that tough to hear, and it also doesn't help you at all when you have a 3 yr old who WILL NOT USE THE POTTY.

Anyway, I also think Covid and disruptions in childcare and massive changes in home life has made this the worst possible year to potty train. I often think it would have gone much smoother if we hadn't had a 4.5 month hiatus from daycare last year, and/or I could have mostly potty trained her in our house while my DH went to work. I don't think having everyone at home all the time made potty training easier even though it sounds convenient. I think you actually need the pressure and consistency of normal work/daycare/school schedules to keep potty training manageable.

Everyone potty trains. My kid might not (probably won't) train until she's 4, which is a bummer for her and for me and for the environment. It's not the outcome I wanted and I genuinely tried to prevent it from happening, but here we are. I don't think getting angry and shaming about it is useful for anyone, nor is saying "You did it wrong." I mean, obviously, but I can't change it now and I certainly went into it with the best intentions. Sometimes you gotta take the L and move on.

You'd get totally different advice than this guy is getting. I think after 3, the kids have to WANT to train and there's more bribery/discussion involved. They're more active participants. Versus putting a 20 month old on the potty every 30 minutes and just saying, we're doing this and it will work.

If it's not working for your 3 year old, stop training. Start talking up potty training and how her friends are potty trained. There's a lot of peer pressure and all the kids at daycare know who "poops themselves" (my son is 3 and he talks about it even). Go down the toy aisle at Target and see if there's a gift she REALLY wants. Tell her if she can go 3 days without diapers, you'll buy it for her. Don't start potty training again until she wants to. Kids like being in charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you tried giving your child more control over other parts of his life? Can you let him make his own breakfast? Give him choices for everything instead of telling him what's going to happen? Let him have some control, that's what this is about.

Make his own breakfast? Is that normal for a three year old? He refuses to eat anything besides yogurt anyway.

I’m seeing a pattern here. You are letting him get way to much of his own way.

Yeah I can't imagine only letting my kid eat what he wants to eat. I believe in choices, but they're between two things I want the kid to have.

I think the other SN kid has worn you out and this kid isn't getting enough positive parent attention. And thus is acting out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow this thread took a turn. Which I'm disappointed about because I am the PP with the similarly hard to potty train 3 yr DD and would love an actual productive conversation.

My kid is actually incredibly compliant in general but very obstinate on the subject of potty training. She has always been an "easy" kid and these issues with potty training took us by surprise -- she generally listens to us, is conscientious, and while she tests boundaries. Based on our own experience and conversations with the pediatrician and behavioral specialists, we think her "easy" tendencies are actually just causing a lot of anxiety around potty training. It took her a while to figure out when her body needed to go and then to figure out how it actually works to go in the potty. That's normal for kids, but for our DD, it seems to have caused a lot of fear of failure and perfectionism. We really tried not to feed into this at all but when it's this severe you can't help but blame yourself. I regret doing the "potty training bootcamps" because I think for our child specifically, they caused her to become really stressed about potty training early on (we started around 24 months) and it has only gotten worse as we go forward. But there is so much pressure to potty train early. Look at all the people in this thread who are just saying "you waited too long."

It is a catch 22. You are told by many to train on the early side before they hit the toddler phase of "no". Makes sense. But then if it doesn't work and your kid still isn't trained by 3, you are told by many that the problem is that you started to early, gave your kid a complex, and set them up for failure. Also makes logical sense but wow is that tough to hear, and it also doesn't help you at all when you have a 3 yr old who WILL NOT USE THE POTTY.

Anyway, I also think Covid and disruptions in childcare and massive changes in home life has made this the worst possible year to potty train. I often think it would have gone much smoother if we hadn't had a 4.5 month hiatus from daycare last year, and/or I could have mostly potty trained her in our house while my DH went to work. I don't think having everyone at home all the time made potty training easier even though it sounds convenient. I think you actually need the pressure and consistency of normal work/daycare/school schedules to keep potty training manageable.

Everyone potty trains. My kid might not (probably won't) train until she's 4, which is a bummer for her and for me and for the environment. It's not the outcome I wanted and I genuinely tried to prevent it from happening, but here we are. I don't think getting angry and shaming about it is useful for anyone, nor is saying "You did it wrong." I mean, obviously, but I can't change it now and I certainly went into it with the best intentions. Sometimes you gotta take the L and move on.

You'd get totally different advice than this guy is getting. I think after 3, the kids have to WANT to train and there's more bribery/discussion involved. They're more active participants. Versus putting a 20 month old on the potty every 30 minutes and just saying, we're doing this and it will work.

If it's not working for your 3 year old, stop training. Start talking up potty training and how her friends are potty trained. There's a lot of peer pressure and all the kids at daycare know who "poops themselves" (my son is 3 and he talks about it even). Go down the toy aisle at Target and see if there's a gift she REALLY wants. Tell her if she can go 3 days without diapers, you'll buy it for her. Don't start potty training again until she wants to. Kids like being in charge.

I always get so confused when I read these remarks. My kid is not developed enough- particularly socially, but also verbally- for that. He could never have a simple conversation about daycare activities in general, much less about the other kids' potty habits. COVID delayed us from putting him in a more typical daycare environment, which was a mistake. We've gotten him evaluated by a couple people, and he's certainly behind, but they also say where he's at isn't particularly uncommon. Given that his slightly older brother has more significant developmental challenges, we don't really have much of a basis for comparison.

Hopefully with public schools opening back up finally we'll be able to get him more services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you tried giving your child more control over other parts of his life? Can you let him make his own breakfast? Give him choices for everything instead of telling him what's going to happen? Let him have some control, that's what this is about.

Make his own breakfast? Is that normal for a three year old? He refuses to eat anything besides yogurt anyway.

I’m seeing a pattern here. You are letting him get way to much of his own way.

Yeah I can't imagine only letting my kid eat what he wants to eat. I believe in choices, but they're between two things I want the kid to have.

I think the other SN kid has worn you out and this kid isn't getting enough positive parent attention. And thus is acting out.

That's easier said than done. He's underweight and absolutely has just refused to eat things for days. Our pediatrician told us we shouldn't push it. We (us and the therapists) tried to push food with his brother, who has actually been less fussy throughout his life and isn't underweight, but the tantrums got out of hand and the therapists told us we needed to stop because they weren't able to do anything during their sessions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s my advice, all the “could have should have” stuff aside, because what you want is a way forward, right?

1. Keep him in pull-ups or diapers for the month of April. If he wants to sit and use the potty during this month, let him. But don’t force him to sit. Each day talk up the importance of using the potty like a big kid. That he has to do it if he wants to go to school with his friends in the fall. That diapers are for little kids and using the potty is for big kids. If you have to go back and pull out the potty training books or watch the potty training episodes of shows like Daniel Tiger, do it.

2. Determine the one week you or your spouse can take off of work in the month of May. This will be the week you pull your child from daycare and your sole job the entire seven days is potty training.

3. Spend the next three weeks putting in the advance work. As in, every single day you do something to prepare yourself for the May training session. Re-read Oh Crap. Contact the author or a pediatric behavioral specialist for a consulting session on toileting a reluctant child. Whether or not your child is neurotypical, research potty training for children with special needs. He may not be a special needs, but he is certainly in a special circumstance where atypical methods of training may be necessary. There are articles and message boards galore online. If you have been using a small standalone potty, invest in an over the seat style with stairs for large toilet insert. If you’ve been having him go on the big toilet, by a standalone potty. Having something different and new may help your process.

4. Make your plan for that training week in May. Adhere to rules you develop: you and he stay in the house the entire week. You try naked on bottom (or underwear only or commando, whatever your plan) and stick to it. You vow to get rid of diapers except for naps and overnight. You take him to sit and try every 20 minutes and watch him like a hawk to pick up on the cues when he needs to go. Double down on rewards: a potty chart with stickers or a candy treat, and a small toy like a matchbox car every day he goes on the potty more than once. A big toy (LEGO kit or whatever) he picks out each day he stays completely dry. If training with underwear have him pick out new underwear with his favorite characters. Even if he has a ton in his closet anyway, have him select a new pack.

What you want is to set your child up for success. The issues you’ve had up to this point are largely parent-created, and marginally child-related. He is reluctant, but unless there is a physiological problem or he is delayed, he is obviously intellectually and physically able to fully train. And you are too. But you have to be vigilant or you’ll be dealing with this problem repeatedly at the extreme disadvantage to your son, who may be held back with little kids at daycare rather than advancing to the older kid classroom or being admitted to a formal preschool since he is still in diapers.

I know it’s a huge frustration, but unless you really treat training as a job at this point, I don’t think you’re going to have success. It’s not magically going to click for him without you really stepping things up. So take the next several weeks to research, prepare, and plan, and then do it. We’re here for support as you need it. Good luck!

+1

This thread is becoming a mess but this is really good advice. I would focus on carving out time to get this done at home where you can keep him bottomless or in underwear. Going back and forth with diapers/pull ups makes things so much harder. And figure out the best way for positive reinforcement. Stickers, toys, etc. You don't want to drive potty training with consequences, he'll jut get defiant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do it on a weekend. If he pees or poops on his underwear he gets no underwear for the rest of the day. Be prepared to stay in most of the weekend. But let other parent go out with sibling. Let him know he’s missing out thru his own choices. If he has a tantrum tell him he has to have it in his room. Carry him there if necessary. He is 3.5, you need to get serious.

That's what we've been doing. We had a 4 day weekend and thought we could make more progress. We took away toys and screens, too. Didn't help.

Taking away toys doesn’t make sense. Same with screens. You’re basically teaching him that going to bathroom in the potty makes life horrible.

Ok. Got a better idea then? How do I motivate him?

I should clarify that I do give him screen-time specifically when he's on the potty. Just not any other time. The toys are recent, and partly motivated by him throwing toys while having potty-related tantrums. We took the main toy away we'll give him a peice back when he uses the potty. And we take anything away he throws.

I think this is part of your problem. You should not give him screen time when he is sitting on the potty. That makes sitting on the potty a passive activity, to watch TV if that’s the only time he gets to watch, rather than doing what he supposed to actively do on the potty: go. Where he likely is now (or will be if you continue this) is that he will agree to sit or say he has to go even if he does not have to go to the bathroom if it means he can get screen time, right? Definitely not a good idea. He should be sitting on the potty to actively go or try to go. You would probably have much better luck telling him he can watch a five minute video after he sits on the potty, not during.