Why do some men check out of their kids' lives after divorce?

[Anonymous]

My husband was very, very involved when the kids were babies and toddlers, and still pretty involved when they were preschoolers, but he started scaling back his involvement more and more throughout their elementary school years, and completely checked out when his midlife crisis started and our marriage fell apart. He barely spent any time with them for the last couple years before he finally moved out, when they were in middle school. He eats dinner with them once a week in our family home (where the kids and I still live), but that’s it. I let him know that he’s certainly welcome to spend more time with the kids. He said his job is demanding and he can only work out at the gym in the evenings, so that doesn’t really leave any free time. I asked if I’d said or done something to make him feel like he wasn’t welcome to see the kids whenever he’s able, and he said, no, I know you’d let me see them any time.

It’s devastating to me that he doesn’t want more involvement. I hurt for my kids. I just can’t understand how my STBX changed so drastically. I would never have predicted this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are selfish losers.

Not necessarily. Far too many ex wives teach their kids to hate their fathers and treat the men like $hit. I am not a man and I have seen this happen a lot. I guess they figure who needs this cra

so it isn't that this doesn't happen but even on here you hear many more stories of men who disconnect. I think the 11:48 poster had it right (at least I hope so) in that it's how they have been raised. It's so much easier for men to just move on in relationships and this is just another type of relationship for many.

You are hearing it from the mom's and I know if you talked to my husband's ex she would slam my husband and everything she said she does to justify her behavior and none is true of my husband. The kids would have been better off being raise by him and would have probably done better in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Sounds like very controlling moms with uninvolved parents and lots of family drama. Those aren't normal lives - rich people who pawn their kids off to nannies. How much time did mom really spend with the kids with a full time nanny.

[Anonymous]

Because the mom alienates the kids from him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Sounds like very controlling moms with uninvolved parents and lots of family drama. Those aren't normal lives - rich people who pawn their kids off to nannies. How much time did mom really spend with the kids with a full time nanny.

So all moms with nannies are neglectful and abusive but dads with nannies are all fine, right?

[Anonymous]

And these dads are much less likely to pay for their children’s college.

[Anonymous]

Both of my parents will agree that my father was not well suited for parenthood. My beautiful young mother was in love with her physician husband, and wanted the whole package of having children. He was pretty lukewarm on it all, and my mother miscalculated by getting pregnant with #3 (that would be me) in a last-ditch effort to save the marriage. That didn’t work and my mother found herself a 30 year old single parent of 3 preschoolers. My father divorced our mother and moved to the other end of the country with the woman who would become his new wife. They never had children together.

My dad gave my mother their “starter house” and some reasonable alimony and child support. Once a year he’d come to visit us at home and the older kids saw him at his house once a year for a week or two. I had my harried single mom to myself then and ultimately did travel when i was about 8 or 9 to see Dad. My mother feels she was meant to be the mother of my brother, sister and me, and does admit she picked the wrong daddy. And he’s not been terrible, just not fully engaged by any measure. He did help some with college and has presented for a couple of family crises, but has otherwise stayed distant. He’s not a terrible grandfather. One weird, yet good thing is that he has guilt about my mother’s contribution to his medical degree and still pays his $1K per month alimony... years after his legal obligation has ended. This has given my mom extra security in retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And these dads are much less likely to pay for their children’s college.

Yup. My dad contributed nothing to my college expenses. Guess who did?.....mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And these dads are much less likely to pay for their children’s college.

If they aren't parents, why should they pay.

[Anonymous]

I'm DW and have seen my son maybe 5 times in the last year. Op, you get used to not seeing your children. It's not too bad if they are safe and happy. It was very hard when he was 6-12 months, but easier at 3-4.
I live in a small apartment so he can go to a better school. He has his own room, a dog and all the internet he can have in his father's house. At 14, he does not miss either of us and spends also a lot of time with his aunt and uncle in VA (all his DL was from VA). I don't remember needing to be around my parents at 14. I just needed friends, shelter, food and I would add the internet now.
I'm glad I moved out when DC was a baby and he cannot remember the physical abuse and a father who was never around. His father actually came around after divorce and has been there for him since about age 4. Ex texts me every once in awhile to make a point of being the better parent and I just ignore it. It's not even a competition and my son would tell him to shut up if he said something like that in front of him. It reminds me why I left somebody who was not there for us when he was a baby but wants all the credit now. DC is so close to being 18 and he will probably cut us both off. We get along fine and don't make him come unless he really wants to come or do something when he is near (360), and it's very nice to see him. He is a good kid. It took me a lot to get him and myself away from all the abuse and dysfunction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm DW and have seen my son maybe 5 times in the last year. Op, you get used to not seeing your children. It's not too bad if they are safe and happy. It was very hard when he was 6-12 months, but easier at 3-4.
I live in a small apartment so he can go to a better school. He has his own room, a dog and all the internet he can have in his father's house. At 14, he does not miss either of us and spends also a lot of time with his aunt and uncle in VA (all his DL was from VA). I don't remember needing to be around my parents at 14. I just needed friends, shelter, food and I would add the internet now.
I'm glad I moved out when DC was a baby and he cannot remember the physical abuse and a father who was never around. His father actually came around after divorce and has been there for him since about age 4. Ex texts me every once in awhile to make a point of being the better parent and I just ignore it. It's not even a competition and my son would tell him to shut up if he said something like that in front of him. It reminds me why I left somebody who was not there for us when he was a baby but wants all the credit now. DC is so close to being 18 and he will probably cut us both off. We get along fine and don't make him come unless he really wants to come or do something when he is near (360), and it's very nice to see him. He is a good kid. It took me a lot to get him and myself away from all the abuse and dysfunction.

If thus is true, you are a very weird mother.

[Anonymous]

Wow nanny 11:48! Incredible insights. I'm happily married with a toddler and another on the way. It's given me a lot to think about and be conscious of in how we parent.

[Anonymous]

PPs, so many sad stories. I am so sorry that you had to go through this with your own fathers or husbands... May you find peace and be able to move an...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the mom alienates the kids from him.

She can’t do that if you fight for 50/50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow nanny 11:48! Incredible insights. I'm happily married with a toddler and another on the way. It's given me a lot to think about and be conscious of in how we parent.

Nanny poster here. I definitely try to elucidate for my male charges and to make this invisible labor visible and accessible to them. I want all my kids of all genders to understand basics of child development and how to be good at relationships. How to build and maintain connections to friends and family. I think it is one of the ways that toxic masculinity handicaps boys and men. I want my boys to be as smart about their emotional and social needs and the many logistics that support that aspect of a healthy life as they are about physical health.