At a loss with classroom behavior issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here. I can tell you when parents start calling meeting with admin and making it clear a kid in class is having huge impact, that’s when they address it. Make clear the teacher is doing what they can but your son is still impacted negatively. I have seen this myself; we as teachers can’t do anything about their placement even if we say it’s impacting the other kids but when you get 3-4 parents getting loud about it, it moves the needle.

OP here. This is possibly what got this child moved into a new classroom—parents in his original classroom going to admin. Did not consider that before. So what do they do: just move kids with extreme behavior disruptions from classroom to classroom as infinitum? Why doesn’t a child who needs this much help regulating impulses and emotions have an aide? This must be such drain on teachers and also no real help to the child.

Why doesn't a child who needs this much help have an aide? 1) If a child is new to a school with no paperwork from an old school, new to the country or most often, new to school in general in kindergarten, a school cannot hold a domain meeting requesting an evaluation for 45 school days. 2) A crap ton of documentation and RTI has to happen before most evaluations will happen. 3) A 1:1 aide in a gen ed room, in my school at least, is considered the MOST restrictive environment, even more so than say being placed in an ED/BD room, that is possible. So schools don't like to use that option. 4) Aides are expensive. Districts don't like to pay for them 5) It is VERY difficult to find an aide to work with some of the kids who need them. When that aide has to follow a detailed BIP or crisis plan, it takes tremendous patience. It can also mean that aide putting themself in harm's way each day. How many people are just dying to get paid $11 an hour and get spit on or kicked? And then add in if you have a district that just doesn't want to deal with all this for one reason or the other? It means the kid in question doesn't get the help they need, the other kids and the staff suffers and it is a lose-lose situation.

This PP makes a lot of good points that parents who aren't part of the special education side of things may not know. As a parent of a gen ed kid who dealt with what sounds like some of the same kinds of classroom behavior issues in early elementary, as the parent of a younger child with special needs, and as a 1:1 aide in a special education classroom, I'd like to add a few more things to the list:

1. To parents who are disturbed by behaviors happening in your children's classrooms, document those concerns. Every time. Don't be afraid to ask for a meeting instead of just sending an email. Talk to the teacher, but reach out to the administrators as well - as others have said, many administrators will drag their feet on things as long as they can but noisy parents can help move the process along.

2. Know that sometimes "that kid" in your child's class has parents that are fighting your school district to get him or her the services they need. That was our experience with our younger child, and it was incredibly frustrating.

3. Agree that aides are expensive, and I will add that many positions like mine (at least within MCPS) are considered temporary and do not have benefits, which I think affects the quality of staff who are willing to take on these jobs. Anyone who is potentially going to be injured by a child at work ought to have insurance. We get paid more than $11, but still not nearly enough.

4. To the parents who say those of us with "problem kids" ought to just move them to private school, know that many of the special needs private schools can ONLY be accessed via the school system. Very few of the schools we've looked at for our child accept private placements - which means if your school district isn't willing to pay the considerable amount to send a child to a specialized school, there is nowhere else to go. Add to that the fact that the list of private placements shrinks when you're talking about early elementary school children and the lack of space in many of the special education programs our area school systems offer and...where do these kids go? Too many kids are trapped in this appropriate placement limbo and it's not good for anyone.

[Anonymous]

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/801066.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here. I can tell you when parents start calling meeting with admin and making it clear a kid in class is having huge impact, that’s when they address it. Make clear the teacher is doing what they can but your son is still impacted negatively. I have seen this myself; we as teachers can’t do anything about their placement even if we say it’s impacting the other kids but when you get 3-4 parents getting loud about it, it moves the needle.

OP here. This is possibly what got this child moved into a new classroom—parents in his original classroom going to admin. Did not consider that before. So what do they do: just move kids with extreme behavior disruptions from classroom to classroom as infinitum? Why doesn’t a child who needs this much help regulating impulses and emotions have an aide? This must be such drain on teachers and also no real help to the child.

Why doesn't a child who needs this much help have an aide? 1) If a child is new to a school with no paperwork from an old school, new to the country or most often, new to school in general in kindergarten, a school cannot hold a domain meeting requesting an evaluation for 45 school days. 2) A crap ton of documentation and RTI has to happen before most evaluations will happen. 3) A 1:1 aide in a gen ed room, in my school at least, is considered the MOST restrictive environment, even more so than say being placed in an ED/BD room, that is possible. So schools don't like to use that option. 4) Aides are expensive. Districts don't like to pay for them 5) It is VERY difficult to find an aide to work with some of the kids who need them. When that aide has to follow a detailed BIP or crisis plan, it takes tremendous patience. It can also mean that aide putting themself in harm's way each day. How many people are just dying to get paid $11 an hour and get spit on or kicked? And then add in if you have a district that just doesn't want to deal with all this for one reason or the other? It means the kid in question doesn't get the help they need, the other kids and the staff suffers and it is a lose-lose situation.

This PP makes a lot of good points that parents who aren't part of the special education side of things may not know. As a parent of a gen ed kid who dealt with what sounds like some of the same kinds of classroom behavior issues in early elementary, as the parent of a younger child with special needs, and as a 1:1 aide in a special education classroom, I'd like to add a few more things to the list:

1. To parents who are disturbed by behaviors happening in your children's classrooms, document those concerns. Every time. Don't be afraid to ask for a meeting instead of just sending an email. Talk to the teacher, but reach out to the administrators as well - as others have said, many administrators will drag their feet on things as long as they can but noisy parents can help move the process along.

2. Know that sometimes "that kid" in your child's class has parents that are fighting your school district to get him or her the services they need. That was our experience with our younger child, and it was incredibly frustrating.

3. Agree that aides are expensive, and I will add that many positions like mine (at least within MCPS) are considered temporary and do not have benefits, which I think affects the quality of staff who are willing to take on these jobs. Anyone who is potentially going to be injured by a child at work ought to have insurance. We get paid more than $11, but still not nearly enough.

4. To the parents who say those of us with "problem kids" ought to just move them to private school, know that many of the special needs private schools can ONLY be accessed via the school system. Very few of the schools we've looked at for our child accept private placements - which means if your school district isn't willing to pay the considerable amount to send a child to a specialized school, there is nowhere else to go. Add to that the fact that the list of private placements shrinks when you're talking about early elementary school children and the lack of space in many of the special education programs our area school systems offer and...where do these kids go? Too many kids are trapped in this appropriate placement limbo and it's not good for anyone.

In my experience half of the parents are fighting for more services and half are in denial, refusing labels and/or placement changes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here. I can tell you when parents start calling meeting with admin and making it clear a kid in class is having huge impact, that’s when they address it. Make clear the teacher is doing what they can but your son is still impacted negatively. I have seen this myself; we as teachers can’t do anything about their placement even if we say it’s impacting the other kids but when you get 3-4 parents getting loud about it, it moves the needle.

OP here. This is possibly what got this child moved into a new classroom—parents in his original classroom going to admin. Did not consider that before. So what do they do: just move kids with extreme behavior disruptions from classroom to classroom as infinitum? Why doesn’t a child who needs this much help regulating impulses and emotions have an aide? This must be such drain on teachers and also no real help to the child.

Why doesn't a child who needs this much help have an aide? 1) If a child is new to a school with no paperwork from an old school, new to the country or most often, new to school in general in kindergarten, a school cannot hold a domain meeting requesting an evaluation for 45 school days. 2) A crap ton of documentation and RTI has to happen before most evaluations will happen. 3) A 1:1 aide in a gen ed room, in my school at least, is considered the MOST restrictive environment, even more so than say being placed in an ED/BD room, that is possible. So schools don't like to use that option. 4) Aides are expensive. Districts don't like to pay for them 5) It is VERY difficult to find an aide to work with some of the kids who need them. When that aide has to follow a detailed BIP or crisis plan, it takes tremendous patience. It can also mean that aide putting themself in harm's way each day. How many people are just dying to get paid $11 an hour and get spit on or kicked? And then add in if you have a district that just doesn't want to deal with all this for one reason or the other? It means the kid in question doesn't get the help they need, the other kids and the staff suffers and it is a lose-lose situation.

This PP makes a lot of good points that parents who aren't part of the special education side of things may not know. As a parent of a gen ed kid who dealt with what sounds like some of the same kinds of classroom behavior issues in early elementary, as the parent of a younger child with special needs, and as a 1:1 aide in a special education classroom, I'd like to add a few more things to the list:

1. To parents who are disturbed by behaviors happening in your children's classrooms, document those concerns. Every time. Don't be afraid to ask for a meeting instead of just sending an email. Talk to the teacher, but reach out to the administrators as well - as others have said, many administrators will drag their feet on things as long as they can but noisy parents can help move the process along.

2. Know that sometimes "that kid" in your child's class has parents that are fighting your school district to get him or her the services they need. That was our experience with our younger child, and it was incredibly frustrating.

3. Agree that aides are expensive, and I will add that many positions like mine (at least within MCPS) are considered temporary and do not have benefits, which I think affects the quality of staff who are willing to take on these jobs. Anyone who is potentially going to be injured by a child at work ought to have insurance. We get paid more than $11, but still not nearly enough.

4. To the parents who say those of us with "problem kids" ought to just move them to private school, know that many of the special needs private schools can ONLY be accessed via the school system. Very few of the schools we've looked at for our child accept private placements - which means if your school district isn't willing to pay the considerable amount to send a child to a specialized school, there is nowhere else to go. Add to that the fact that the list of private placements shrinks when you're talking about early elementary school children and the lack of space in many of the special education programs our area school systems offer and...where do these kids go? Too many kids are trapped in this appropriate placement limbo and it's not good for anyone.

In my experience half of the parents are fighting for more services and half are in denial, refusing labels and/or placement changes

Until I started working for the school system I didn't believe that there were parents refusing services, but I've seen it myself now. I hope other parents do realize that at least some of us are fighting hard to try to get our children the help they need. Not everyone can afford to hire an advocate like we did and I'm not sure I want to know how long things would have taken had we gone it alone.

[Anonymous]

so much in this thread is spot-on, thank you to those who posted. From parents fighting system for services, to other parents in complete denial. To teachers working hard to try to accommodate every student, those desperately crying out for help and those too quiet to say a word. Also correct about those one-on-one aides. Not only do they make about $11 an hour and not get benefits, their jobs are considered temporary. Meaning the school doesn't know if the child will be back next year, so that person doesn't know if they'll have a job next year. So usually around April to get reassigned somewhere else. Then you find out the kid is staying, but it's too late because the aid has taken a job somewhere else. And the data collection MCPS requires before overriding the parents in denial is unbelievable. Thank you to all the teachers doing their best.

[Anonymous]

Something needs to change. It’s just simply unacceptable that one child’s behavior can have such negative consequences on all of the others around them. I realize some parents are fighting for services, but as a society we need to come up with a better, quicker way. The pendulum has swung way too far on the side of favoring the disruptive child’s rights over everyone else’s (just like many things in our society, such as “emotional support animals”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was instructed to not leave specific notes about student X in my sub plans because his parents believe he is being targeted by staff. So I had to make a generic note to watch students near the door. The last time I was out, student x intentionally shut a classmate’s hand in the door —something he has attempted with other kids before. Now the injured kid’s parents are irate that the sub let it happen.

Here is the crux of the issue. The sub didn’t “let” anything happen. The child purposely shut the door on someone’s else’s hand. Blame is misplaced in schools these days.

+1,000,000. There is an epidemic of excuse making that is so deeply ingrained most can't even see when they do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something needs to change. It’s just simply unacceptable that one child’s behavior can have such negative consequences on all of the others around them. I realize some parents are fighting for services, but as a society we need to come up with a better, quicker way. The pendulum has swung way too far on the side of favoring the disruptive child’s rights over everyone else’s (just like many things in our society, such as “emotional support animals”

I find this discouraging and wonder what strategies would work? If parents denying services, can the school ask the patent to observe for two days to see impact or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are these classrooms being evacuated and what grade? I'm so curious and had no idea! In fairness, it makes me appreciate the non-violent classroom disruptors that I've had to deal with.

1st grade FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you so much to everyone who replied, including and especially the teachers. I am so sorry to hear that you have struggled with this yourselves. I adore my child’s teacher—and I did last year, too—and I am so upset for her that she is now feeling and dealing with this stress. I am afraid to bring this up to her too Ok in because I know there is an limit to what she can do, and I hate to add to her burden. But I know ultimately it helps her if we are in communication with the admins (this is what the teacher last year advised, too). To the teacher who brought up subs: yes, I have fear about this. I know the teacher is taking a few days off in a couple of weeks, and I am worried about what will happen. Last year, the subs had a hard time. One actually told my child “not to tattle” when he saw the disruptive child push his friend into a desk. I wish there were more specific help and attention given to these kids: so know it must feel so scary for them, too, to be so out of control.

We had a similar issue in my son's class last year. Child throwing chairs, punching teachers, etc. I had a verbal conversation with the teacher (who was absolutely wonderful) in which I asked if she was getting the support she needed. She said yes, but made it clear that it would be helpful if the Principal knew my concerns. I hadn't wanted to involve the Principal if it would look like I thought the teacher, who we really respected, wasn't doing her job well. Anyway, I wrote several emails to the teacher and copied the Principal and VP when specific instances happened (chair was thrown near my child, my child being touched incessantly, classroom evacuated and my child sad about missing math - he was only 5!) Several other parents did as well. Luckily, the Principal is great and worked very hard with the disruptive child's parents to get the child classified with whatever he needed to get the proper instruction. Now he's in a different program and pushes into my child's class with an aide. And he's doing wonderfully.

Unfortunately, not every family is willing to have their child get the education that is most appropriate to them. That puts principals and teachers in a hard place.

Anyway, do get someone higher than the teacher involved. the teacher can't get extra classroom aides or have a kid removed to a better learning environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something needs to change. It’s just simply unacceptable that one child’s behavior can have such negative consequences on all of the others around them. I realize some parents are fighting for services, but as a society we need to come up with a better, quicker way. The pendulum has swung way too far on the side of favoring the disruptive child’s rights over everyone else’s (just like many things in our society, such as “emotional support animals”

I find this discouraging and wonder what strategies would work? If parents denying services, can the school ask the patent to observe for two days to see impact or something?

+1 ITA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here. I can tell you when parents start calling meeting with admin and making it clear a kid in class is having huge impact, that’s when they address it. Make clear the teacher is doing what they can but your son is still impacted negatively. I have seen this myself; we as teachers can’t do anything about their placement even if we say it’s impacting the other kids but when you get 3-4 parents getting loud about it, it moves the needle.

OP here. This is possibly what got this child moved into a new classroom—parents in his original classroom going to admin. Did not consider that before. So what do they do: just move kids with extreme behavior disruptions from classroom to classroom as infinitum? Why doesn’t a child who needs this much help regulating impulses and emotions have an aide? This must be such drain on teachers and also no real help to the child.

Why doesn't a child who needs this much help have an aide? 1) If a child is new to a school with no paperwork from an old school, new to the country or most often, new to school in general in kindergarten, a school cannot hold a domain meeting requesting an evaluation for 45 school days. 2) A crap ton of documentation and RTI has to happen before most evaluations will happen. 3) A 1:1 aide in a gen ed room, in my school at least, is considered the MOST restrictive environment, even more so than say being placed in an ED/BD room, that is possible. So schools don't like to use that option. 4) Aides are expensive. Districts don't like to pay for them 5) It is VERY difficult to find an aide to work with some of the kids who need them. When that aide has to follow a detailed BIP or crisis plan, it takes tremendous patience. It can also mean that aide putting themself in harm's way each day. How many people are just dying to get paid $11 an hour and get spit on or kicked? And then add in if you have a district that just doesn't want to deal with all this for one reason or the other? It means the kid in question doesn't get the help they need, the other kids and the staff suffers and it is a lose-lose situation.

OP here. I didn't know any of this--thank you. I didn't realize how hard it is for a child to be assigned an aide and how hard it is to find one. What is the answer here? A teacher already stretched thin with the demands of a full classroom, plus at least one or two kids whose needs and behavior dominate their attention--that feels terribly unfair to the teacher, the kids who need the extra assistance, and the rest of the class. My kid says the outburts are loud, sudden, and last a long time--he's on edge waiting for it, even when it isn't happening. I wonder how many other kids in the class feel the same? Not to mention all the hours of instruction interrupted.

Its life in public school. Not all kids are as perfect as yours. Most kids who need attention and supports don't get it and many of us pay a fortune privately in services or have to hire advocates or attorneys and basically sue. You can always transfer to a private.

It's not fair of you to be dismissive of this especially when you don't know OP's financial situation - most of us can't just go find a private school and enroll our child.

Yes, you can.

You must be really out of touch to not understand that most people don't have $20,000 extra lying around to pay private school tuition for a year.

Many families earn $40,000 gross before taxes. They have to rely on public schools that their taxes pay for.

If they are earning that then they'd qualify for financial aid.[/quote]





Both the ADW and the Catholic school my dc went to were stingy af. You can't rely on financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here. I can tell you when parents start calling meeting with admin and making it clear a kid in class is having huge impact, that’s when they address it. Make clear the teacher is doing what they can but your son is still impacted negatively. I have seen this myself; we as teachers can’t do anything about their placement even if we say it’s impacting the other kids but when you get 3-4 parents getting loud about it, it moves the needle.

OP here. This is possibly what got this child moved into a new classroom—parents in his original classroom going to admin. Did not consider that before. So what do they do: just move kids with extreme behavior disruptions from classroom to classroom as infinitum? Why doesn’t a child who needs this much help regulating impulses and emotions have an aide? This must be such drain on teachers and also no real help to the child.

Why doesn't a child who needs this much help have an aide? 1) If a child is new to a school with no paperwork from an old school, new to the country or most often, new to school in general in kindergarten, a school cannot hold a domain meeting requesting an evaluation for 45 school days. 2) A crap ton of documentation and RTI has to happen before most evaluations will happen. 3) A 1:1 aide in a gen ed room, in my school at least, is considered the MOST restrictive environment, even more so than say being placed in an ED/BD room, that is possible. So schools don't like to use that option. 4) Aides are expensive. Districts don't like to pay for them 5) It is VERY difficult to find an aide to work with some of the kids who need them. When that aide has to follow a detailed BIP or crisis plan, it takes tremendous patience. It can also mean that aide putting themself in harm's way each day. How many people are just dying to get paid $11 an hour and get spit on or kicked? And then add in if you have a district that just doesn't want to deal with all this for one reason or the other? It means the kid in question doesn't get the help they need, the other kids and the staff suffers and it is a lose-lose situation.

OP here. I didn't know any of this--thank you. I didn't realize how hard it is for a child to be assigned an aide and how hard it is to find one. What is the answer here? A teacher already stretched thin with the demands of a full classroom, plus at least one or two kids whose needs and behavior dominate their attention--that feels terribly unfair to the teacher, the kids who need the extra assistance, and the rest of the class. My kid says the outburts are loud, sudden, and last a long time--he's on edge waiting for it, even when it isn't happening. I wonder how many other kids in the class feel the same? Not to mention all the hours of instruction interrupted.

Its life in public school. Not all kids are as perfect as yours. Most kids who need attention and supports don't get it and many of us pay a fortune privately in services or have to hire advocates or attorneys and basically sue. You can always transfer to a private.

So could you

I have put mine in private when it was absolutely necessary. But, at some point we couldn't maintain that cost and private therapies. Thankfully mine doesn't have behavioral problems so most privates would take them but otherwise you are looking at $50-60K and if I could afford that mine would be in a private as the school system and public school is terrible. We have had one decent teacher and I wouldn't even say she's good. This year we went 1/2 the year without a teacher.

Most of the people here complaining could comfortably afford it especially when they are buying million dollar houses but instead they'd rather attack someone else child who needs help.

You have got to be trolling with that nonsense

NP. What part? None of this sounds that unusual for a child with significant SN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something needs to change. It’s just simply unacceptable that one child’s behavior can have such negative consequences on all of the others around them. I realize some parents are fighting for services, but as a society we need to come up with a better, quicker way. The pendulum has swung way too far on the side of favoring the disruptive child’s rights over everyone else’s (just like many things in our society, such as “emotional support animals”

I find this discouraging and wonder what strategies would work? If parents denying services, can the school ask the patent to observe for two days to see impact or something?

+1 ITA

Most school systems in this area are moving to disallow parents (or professionals they engage) from observing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something needs to change. It’s just simply unacceptable that one child’s behavior can have such negative consequences on all of the others around them. I realize some parents are fighting for services, but as a society we need to come up with a better, quicker way. The pendulum has swung way too far on the side of favoring the disruptive child’s rights over everyone else’s (just like many things in our society, such as “emotional support animals”

The options are to overturn existing legislation that guarantees equal access to a free and appropriate public education or to actually fund a free and appropriate public education for all students. We are in the middle ground where FAPE is law but schools don't have the funds to provide FAPE so only the squeakiest wheels get it. And meanwhile, the head of the Dept of Education doesn't even know what FAPE is...