At a loss with classroom behavior issues

[Anonymous]

When we had a problem with a violent student at our ES, parents (en masse - students had to evacuate multiple times a week, definitely disruptive to learning), we were told we had to be more compassionate toward the violent student. Nothing changed, except a few of the families pulled their students and moved them into private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are so many more kids with autism that have been out of control at home and they come to school and cannot function. Lots of parents have recognized their child’s need for services for autism and have made that happen, but lots haven’t. Parents now refuse to cooperate with schools and admin backs down. They don’t want complaints going over their heads.

Back in the mid 1980s in FCPS we had self-contained LD classrooms, where the ten kids or so in upper and lower elementary had a calm setting to work on core academics with scaffolded instruction, breaks, and targeted help with behavior. They mainstreamed as they were able to for academics and joined in specials with their grade. Each class had a special ed teacher and at least one IA. Then they decided to throw them all in gen ed with pull out and push in services, and those kids that had viewed their self-contained rooms as safe places to learn were overwhelmed in large settings and acted out. All kids cannot be comfortable in a large group, and not providing what they need in unconscionable, to me. The current trend of the workshop model is too loud, busy, and distracting.

+10000

The current fad for mainstreaming everyone isn’t working for anyone. Some kids absolute thrive best in small groups in less stimulating, less overwhelming self-contained environments with extra support.

In my FCPS school, most classes use a workshop model for language arts and math, which means that kids are moving around a lot and there is constant noise and talking. At least half of the classrooms use “flexible seating”, the new trend, which means some kids are on the floor, some are on bouncy balls, some are under tables, on couches, on wiggle chairs, all over the place. And there are almost always extra adults in the room: IA’s, SpED teachers, a volunteer, etc.

There is NO WAY this is the least restrictive environment for learning for many kids. All that distraction, all that stimulation, and so little structure is VERY restrictive for kids...it prevents them from learning and causes melt downs and and inability to self regulate.

I can’t stand it myself as a teacher. Its wayyy to stimulating and distracting for me. And I don’t know where educators ever got the sense that this was what we needed to train kids to work in...workplaces are not chaotic like this. Everything is NOT group work. People are not constantly moving about.

I do think a huge part of the dramatic increase in meltdowns we see is that so many kids are inappropriately placed in this kind of high-stress, high-stimulation environment.

Overstimulation with electronic devices is another big problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I forgot to mention in the 60's and 70's the only time a class was evacuated was for a fire drill. I don't even understand how these evacuations for chair throwing are even legal particularly if the state mandates a child should be in school and in class so many days per year.

1979: My fifth grade classroom was evacuated when a boy started throwing chairs. However, we never saw him again at that school. I ran into him as an adult and he said he was expelled and his parents sent him to live with relatives in another state. He went to an ISD in a southern state that still paddled and he thought for sure was going to get hit every day, but he also got constant adult attention from his grandparents and aunts so he was less angry when he arrived at school each day. He ended up in the Navy instead of prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Believe me that 99 percent of cases of young children who act like this can be managed by a good teacher with good strategies. Sometimes they need another hand temporarily. In 15 years of teaching, I have seen only a small number of kids who need a different environment. They exist but they are not common.

It's been some years since I taught, but I would agree with this. I suspect there are more kids like this than before.
However, in the 12 years I taught, I had two kids that needed to be elsewhere and were not. One was an autistic child with extreme sensory issues. He would start screaming and flailing about and could not be calmed. We could not figure out what set him off. He was not removed from my class and it was extremely disruptive and troubling to the kids--and me.

The other was a child who was extremely disturbed. She came from a very sad, abusive background. (She had been removed from that environment.) However, as much pity and sympathy I had for her, she was a constant disruption to the class. She required constant "eyes on."

The two years that those kids were in my class were very difficult and I often wonder how impacted the other kids were. They certainly were not able to have the same experience that my classes were the other years.

Two out of twelve years may not sound like much, but if your child were in those classes, you would likely feel that it was a lot.

The difference how is that teachers have kids like this (either one or more than one) *every* year. It used to be there was a known kid in each grade level and every year one teacher in the grade level would have this challenging child in their class but teachers would rotate years with a known challenging child and then they would have at least a year “off”. Now no one has a year “off”. This is a huge reason why teachers are so burnt out. Even one year with no significant behavior challenges can be recharging and remind you why you do this job.

That’s not to say that the kids with significant behavior challenges only have negative qualities. Far from that, of course, but our job is to instruct the whole class and if the majority of our time is spent on handling behavior from one or two children then the rest suffer by proxy. And of course the people with the easy solutions about how to handle these kids aren’t the ones who are with them for 7 hours a day and aren’t the ones responsible for instructing that kid plus twenty something others. Of course it’s easier to handle when you’re not immersed in it all day long.

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

NT? Please define.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

NT? Please define.

Neurotypical = NT

It’s a common term used to describe regular kids with no special needs (SN)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

NT? Please define.

Neurotypical = NT

It’s a common term used to describe regular kids with no special needs (SN)

Thank you. NP here. DW and I both teach and wouldn’t have known “NT”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

NT? Please define.

Neurotypical = NT

It’s a common term used to describe regular kids with no special needs (SN)

Thank you. NP here. DW and I both teach and wouldn’t have known “NT”.

Omg seriously?? That is dismaying. I’m a teacher. How can you not know neurotypical/ neurodivergent in 2020?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Very accurate. Also, some behaviors have now been normalized. I have a student whose mother swears she is NT, but justified some repetitive and inappropriate behaviors as sensory seeking. Which is it?

NT? Please define.

Neurotypical = NT

It’s a common term used to describe regular kids with no special needs (SN)

Thank you. NP here. DW and I both teach and wouldn’t have known “NT”.

Omg seriously?? That is dismaying. I’m a teacher. How can you not know neurotypical/ neurodivergent in 2020?

DP here. That is a pretty snarky response.
FWIW. I've never heard it either. I'm the responder who asked for the definition. I've heard neurotypical--but never NT.

[Anonymous]

Another NoVA teacher, here. Would know “neurotypical” but not “NT.” And I will be honest, we might use these preferred terms in meetings and such, but amongst ourselves we keep it real.

That’s all I’ll say and go ahead and tell me you hope I’m not your kids’ teacher and that you feel sorry for my students. I know very few in the profession who don’t call it like it is when off the record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Two sides to this and both have legitimate points of view. My child was in a class that was evacuated every few weeks in two different grades. I never even heard about it from her but a few parents mentioned it to me and I saw it happen once while volunteering. Not one of the kids seemed visibly upset. The evacuation was really quick and they just went to another classroom to continue the lesson. This was early elementary so it gave the kids a movement break and they continued with their lesson and were moved back into their classroom in about 5 minutes after another adult was able to come down and help the child who was upset.

DD has a friend with anxiety, and, her parents discovered a few years later, a learning disability. This situation was very difficult for her and the parents initially were in denial and blamed their DD's not being able to learn on the upset child. They did move her to a different classroom but found she was still struggling academically. This was about HER issue, not the other child's issue.

Public school is chaotic my friend and your child will encounter behavioral issues throughout K-12 so if this is making your child struggle you do have a right to bring it up with the administration but just know most students do fine with these disruptions.

Oh, ok, you're absolutely right, MY CHILD is the one who has problems, not PP's. I have the feeling that next year, when DD is in a class full of peers and not constantly evacuated from class and doesn't have shit thrown at her multiple times a week, she'll be doing a lot better. Have YOU ever had a desk thrown at you when you were at work? Multiple times? Threatened with scissors and sharp pencils??? You'd probably be anxious in that case, too. You and PP are real peaches.

You need to take a deep breath, PP. There are many other children in the same classroom and they are not reacting the same way as your child. No one is saying your child has a "problem." They are just suggesting you take a look at this issue from that point of view instead of blaming the classmate. My child has been in public elementary for 4 years and every year there is a child or sometimes two who acts out in various ways including throwing things like desks, pencils, and breaking things. None of them are targeting other students but just getting upset and expressing their frustration. I think I and DS might feel differently if there was a child who was actively attacking students but we have not encountered that. DS has been injured by other students in classroom and on the playground. But those students are NT . The kids with special needs who get frustrated in class have not hurt any other student as far as we have heard in the 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another NoVA teacher, here. Would know “neurotypical” but not “NT.” And I will be honest, we might use these preferred terms in meetings and such, but amongst ourselves we keep it real.

That’s all I’ll say and go ahead and tell me you hope I’m not your kids’ teacher and that you feel sorry for my students. I know very few in the profession who don’t call it like it is when off the record.

You can be self defensive all you want. It’s really shocking to me you and other teachers do not know basic terms like NT/neurotypical/neurodivergent in 2020 and as a teacher AND a parent of a child who has an IEP for learning differences, it’s kind of alarming to think my kid’s teacher is asked to give input on goals and accommodations and doesn’t even know basics acronyms related to SpED services they’re legally required to provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another NoVA teacher, here. Would know “neurotypical” but not “NT.” And I will be honest, we might use these preferred terms in meetings and such, but amongst ourselves we keep it real.

That’s all I’ll say and go ahead and tell me you hope I’m not your kids’ teacher and that you feel sorry for my students. I know very few in the profession who don’t call it like it is when off the record.

You can be self defensive all you want. It’s really shocking to me you and other teachers do not know basic terms like NT/neurotypical/neurodivergent in 2020 and as a teacher AND a parent of a child who has an IEP for learning differences, it’s kind of alarming to think my kid’s teacher is asked to give input on goals and accommodations and doesn’t even know basics acronyms related to SpED services they’re legally required to provide.

You're being ridiculous. She already said she knows what neurotypical is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another NoVA teacher, here. Would know “neurotypical” but not “NT.” And I will be honest, we might use these preferred terms in meetings and such, but amongst ourselves we keep it real.

That’s all I’ll say and go ahead and tell me you hope I’m not your kids’ teacher and that you feel sorry for my students. I know very few in the profession who don’t call it like it is when off the record.

You can be self defensive all you want. It’s really shocking to me you and other teachers do not know basic terms like NT/neurotypical/neurodivergent in 2020 and as a teacher AND a parent of a child who has an IEP for learning differences, it’s kind of alarming to think my kid’s teacher is asked to give input on goals and accommodations and doesn’t even know basics acronyms related to SpED services they’re legally required to provide.

You're being ridiculous. She already said she knows what neurotypical is.

Some pps are on DCUM too much. The acronyms used here are not commonplace in the real world. In professional settings, actual terms should be used to minimize confusion and mistakes.

[Anonymous]

You're being ridiculous. She already said she knows what neurotypical is.

At least two of us have said we are familiar with neuotypical, but not NT. Don't understand why the earlier PP is so arrogant.