How to deal with family member who plays victim ALL THE TIME

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore, back away from all of them. If she makes $250, she is very comfortable and probably also gets child support. She needs to manage the money better.

Cant. Tried it. MIL expects DH to always help as family is family no matter what was said or done by SIL. They always have excuses but I have reached my breaking point. I honestly will have a nervous breakdown one of these days. There is no pleasing them, nothing is enough.

It is up to your husband to deal with it. Discuss with your husband what you feel is a tolerable amount of charity (whether $x/month, $y/quarter, $z/year, etc) and leave it to him to handle.

I am a husband and I come from one of those types of family. I had to learn to put my foot down. I will budget what we think is an appropriate amount and find a way to portion it out. I have told my mother that I can only afford so much before payday. Or that I have to wait until I've paid for such-and-such before I can give out any more. Like the time I told my mother that we had to have the roof repaired and until the bill came in, I couldn't give any money to my sibling until I knew how much it was going to be, how much could be financed and how much my payments were going to be. Then I gave my sibling a certain amount of money (not the full amount asked for) after the dust settled.

He should know that it will be hard the first few times and you have to set up some pretty big excuses (getting roof repaired, grandkids braces, car broke down, etc) and dig your trenches, but it can be done. And then once it becomes the new norm that you have to prioritize your family, house, car, life, first, then the expectations are that after you've handled your priorities, you'll give sibling money. But it can be done.

Talk to your husband, come up with a plan and let him execute.

We went through so many years when money was tight that I know what it's like to be struggling financially. I have great empathy for those in that situation. But no way would I feel an obligation to subsidize a sibling who was making $250K/yr. That is absolutely insane.

And for two grown adults to chronically need help with normal life problems (car repairs, braces for the kids, roof repair...). Oh, hell no. They need to prioritize better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore, back away from all of them. If she makes $250, she is very comfortable and probably also gets child support. She needs to manage the money better.

Cant. Tried it. MIL expects DH to always help as family is family no matter what was said or done by SIL. They always have excuses but I have reached my breaking point. I honestly will have a nervous breakdown one of these days. There is no pleasing them, nothing is enough.

It is up to your husband to deal with it. Discuss with your husband what you feel is a tolerable amount of charity (whether $x/month, $y/quarter, $z/year, etc) and leave it to him to handle.

I am a husband and I come from one of those types of family. I had to learn to put my foot down. I will budget what we think is an appropriate amount and find a way to portion it out. I have told my mother that I can only afford so much before payday. Or that I have to wait until I've paid for such-and-such before I can give out any more. Like the time I told my mother that we had to have the roof repaired and until the bill came in, I couldn't give any money to my sibling until I knew how much it was going to be, how much could be financed and how much my payments were going to be. Then I gave my sibling a certain amount of money (not the full amount asked for) after the dust settled.

He should know that it will be hard the first few times and you have to set up some pretty big excuses (getting roof repaired, grandkids braces, car broke down, etc) and dig your trenches, but it can be done. And then once it becomes the new norm that you have to prioritize your family, house, car, life, first, then the expectations are that after you've handled your priorities, you'll give sibling money. But it can be done.

Talk to your husband, come up with a plan and let him execute.

We went through so many years when money was tight that I know what it's like to be struggling financially. I have great empathy for those in that situation. But no way would I feel an obligation to subsidize a sibling who was making $250K/yr. That is absolutely insane.

And for two grown adults to chronically need help with normal life problems (car repairs, braces for the kids, roof repair...). Oh, hell no. They need to prioritize better.

I'm the PP you responded to. I'm the one that was being asked for money. I gave those excuses to delay giving money when asked. I would then wait for the big expense to go by and decide how much money I was willing to give to my sibling. In some cases, the "emergency" request had passed and they didn't need money. In other cases, they had to delay their own requests to wait for my expense to pass before I gave them money. I was basically using the excuses to teach them that I was not an ATM that they could just go and get whatever money they asked for out of. And it taught my mother not to immediately expect me to kowtow to her emotional demand whenever I said no to my sibling. Now after a few years, I have much better control over what donations I give to my sibling and when. And I always prioritize my immediately family over my sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Irony: OP complaining about a divorced, special needs parent, while seeking emotional support on an anonymous board

I agree that OP's complaint just does not sit right with me. I have a child with special needs (not autism), and a marriage that's unstable in part because my spouse has some of the traits of our son, and despite a two parent household, life can be difficult and chaotic because living with people who have difficulty functioning normally in society is HARD.

I note that OP has not detailed exactly what SIL has asked of them recently, apart from the previous lawyer fees, and has not described the mean things SIL has said.

It makes me think OP is exaggerating and cannot fathom how unrelentingly burdensome life is for her SIL. 250K/yr DOES NOT MAKE UP FOR AUTISM!
Want to switch places with her, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be only answering the financial stuff and not the relationship stuff. In one post, she seems to think since the ASD diagnosis was 12 years ago, things should be fine now (ASD is forever and it is hard to raise a child with ASD no matter their age or how long you have known). She doesn’t answer how much the ex is in SIL’s life or their children’s. She also doesn’t answer what relationships she and DH have with their nephew and other niece/nephew (we have no knowledge on gender or age) and what they have done to promote those relationships.

I think this should be in the Money forum and not the Family Relationships forum.

No, I think this should be in Family Relationships because SIL is using her son's autism diagnosis as a reason to guilt trip her family into giving her money even though she makes $250K/year herself.

She would never lay a guilt trip like that on anyone else, just family.

Maybe SIL really needs the emotional help, but OP and DH are not doing that, so she settles for the financial help (to be able to throw money at the emotion bit).

What makes you think we haven’t shown any empathy or provided emotional support? [b]We have. Unfortunately as far as the in-laws dynamic is concerned, daughter in laws are always going to lose. No matter what they do for their husbands family it’s never enough, never right. There is expectation to keep giving and never receive, there is expectation that they can mistreat you since you are like family and families fight and it doesn’t mean anything but at the same time there is also expectation to keep things from you and exclude you from conversations since you are not really family. Sometimes I wonder if I had known how manipulative my in-laws were would I have still married my DH?

You have only given examples of financial support. How often do you see your nephew and his sibling? How often do they come to your house? Have they ever stayed overnight without SIL? Are you active in any of their interests? do you attend any of their “events” (sports games, concerts, recitals...)? Do you have any sort of relationship with them beyond their mother?

Nope. Never attended any of the events cause we were never asked to. She has never attended any of our kids events either. It’s just a weird relationship

[Anonymous]

Do you have children, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore, back away from all of them. If she makes $250, she is very comfortable and probably also gets child support. She needs to manage the money better.

Cant. Tried it. MIL expects DH to always help as family is family no matter what was said or done by SIL. They always have excuses but I have reached my breaking point. I honestly will have a nervous breakdown one of these days. There is no pleasing them, nothing is enough.

It is up to your husband to deal with it. Discuss with your husband what you feel is a tolerable amount of charity (whether $x/month, $y/quarter, $z/year, etc) and leave it to him to handle.

I am a husband and I come from one of those types of family. I had to learn to put my foot down. I will budget what we think is an appropriate amount and find a way to portion it out. I have told my mother that I can only afford so much before payday. Or that I have to wait until I've paid for such-and-such before I can give out any more. Like the time I told my mother that we had to have the roof repaired and until the bill came in, I couldn't give any money to my sibling until I knew how much it was going to be, how much could be financed and how much my payments were going to be. Then I gave my sibling a certain amount of money (not the full amount asked for) after the dust settled.

He should know that it will be hard the first few times and you have to set up some pretty big excuses (getting roof repaired, grandkids braces, car broke down, etc) and dig your trenches, but it can be done. And then once it becomes the new norm that you have to prioritize your family, house, car, life, first, then the expectations are that after you've handled your priorities, you'll give sibling money. But it can be done.

Talk to your husband, come up with a plan and let him execute.

We went through so many years when money was tight that I know what it's like to be struggling financially. I have great empathy for those in that situation. But no way would I feel an obligation to subsidize a sibling who was making $250K/yr. That is absolutely insane.

And for two grown adults to chronically need help with normal life problems (car repairs, braces for the kids, roof repair...). Oh, hell no. They need to prioritize better.

I'm the PP you responded to. I'm the one that was being asked for money. I gave those excuses to delay giving money when asked. I would then wait for the big expense to go by and decide how much money I was willing to give to my sibling. In some cases, the "emergency" request had passed and they didn't need money. In other cases, they had to delay their own requests to wait for my expense to pass before I gave them money. I was basically using the excuses to teach them that I was not an ATM that they could just go and get whatever money they asked for out of. And it taught my mother not to immediately expect me to kowtow to her emotional demand whenever I said no to my sibling. Now after a few years, I have much better control over what donations I give to my sibling and when. And I always prioritize my immediately family over my sibling.

Oh, I gotcha. Sorry. Of course you should be prioritizing your immediate family. Doesn't your sibling? Does your sibling ever ask you - "What do you need?", "How can I help?", "Here, let me lend a hand?" or is it all take, take, take, grab, grab, grab? Those are the types of folks that are hard for me to feel much sympathy for.

[Anonymous]

Loving them doesn't mean enabling them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Irony: OP complaining about a divorced, special needs parent, while seeking emotional support on an anonymous board

I agree that OP's complaint just does not sit right with me. I have a child with special needs (not autism), and a marriage that's unstable in part because my spouse has some of the traits of our son, and despite a two parent household, life can be difficult and chaotic because living with people who have difficulty functioning normally in society is HARD.

I note that OP has not detailed exactly what SIL has asked of them recently, apart from the previous lawyer fees, and has not described the mean things SIL has said.

It makes me think OP is exaggerating and cannot fathom how unrelentingly burdensome life is for her SIL. 250K/yr DOES NOT MAKE UP FOR AUTISM!
Want to switch places with her, OP?

You have a lot on your plate I'm sure but that does not mean that your sibling(s) don't also have problems which may, at times, feel overwhelming to them.

If you want empathy you need to give it. Make sure that you don't expect the world to revolve around you and your own set of circumstances. Have you tried Autism support groups? Parents who are going through the same challenges can probably relate better to what you're going through - a sibling who hasn't been there might find themselves walking on eggshells around you. That doesn't mean that your siblings don't love and care about you because they most certainly do. It just can't be ALL about you and your troubles ALL of the time. They have things that they are dealing with, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do you have children, OP?

Yes 2 kids. Have never received any help from anyone with babysitting or otherwise. Never expected it either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be only answering the financial stuff and not the relationship stuff. In one post, she seems to think since the ASD diagnosis was 12 years ago, things should be fine now (ASD is forever and it is hard to raise a child with ASD no matter their age or how long you have known). She doesn’t answer how much the ex is in SIL’s life or their children’s. She also doesn’t answer what relationships she and DH have with their nephew and other niece/nephew (we have no knowledge on gender or age) and what they have done to promote those relationships.

I think this should be in the Money forum and not the Family Relationships forum.

No, I think this should be in Family Relationships because SIL is using her son's autism diagnosis as a reason to guilt trip her family into giving her money even though she makes $250K/year herself.

She would never lay a guilt trip like that on anyone else, just family.

Maybe SIL really needs the emotional help, but OP and DH are not doing that, so she settles for the financial help (to be able to throw money at the emotion bit).

What makes you think we haven’t shown any empathy or provided emotional support? [b]We have. Unfortunately as far as the in-laws dynamic is concerned, daughter in laws are always going to lose. No matter what they do for their husbands family it’s never enough, never right. There is expectation to keep giving and never receive, there is expectation that they can mistreat you since you are like family and families fight and it doesn’t mean anything but at the same time there is also expectation to keep things from you and exclude you from conversations since you are not really family. Sometimes I wonder if I had known how manipulative my in-laws were would I have still married my DH?

You have only given examples of financial support. How often do you see your nephew and his sibling? How often do they come to your house? Have they ever stayed overnight without SIL? Are you active in any of their interests? do you attend any of their “events” (sports games, concerts, recitals...)? Do you have any sort of relationship with them beyond their mother?

Nope. Never attended any of the events cause we were never asked to. She has never attended any of our kids events either. It’s just a weird relationship

So you have never tried to establish a relationship with them and be there for them (not SIL). You do NOT need to be invited to be in their lives as an Aunt and Uncle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be only answering the financial stuff and not the relationship stuff. In one post, she seems to think since the ASD diagnosis was 12 years ago, things should be fine now (ASD is forever and it is hard to raise a child with ASD no matter their age or how long you have known). She doesn’t answer how much the ex is in SIL’s life or their children’s. She also doesn’t answer what relationships she and DH have with their nephew and other niece/nephew (we have no knowledge on gender or age) and what they have done to promote those relationships.

I think this should be in the Money forum and not the Family Relationships forum.

No, I think this should be in Family Relationships because SIL is using her son's autism diagnosis as a reason to guilt trip her family into giving her money even though she makes $250K/year herself.

She would never lay a guilt trip like that on anyone else, just family.

Maybe SIL really needs the emotional help, but OP and DH are not doing that, so she settles for the financial help (to be able to throw money at the emotion bit).

What makes you think we haven’t shown any empathy or provided emotional support? [b]We have. Unfortunately as far as the in-laws dynamic is concerned, daughter in laws are always going to lose. No matter what they do for their husbands family it’s never enough, never right. There is expectation to keep giving and never receive, there is expectation that they can mistreat you since you are like family and families fight and it doesn’t mean anything but at the same time there is also expectation to keep things from you and exclude you from conversations since you are not really family. Sometimes I wonder if I had known how manipulative my in-laws were would I have still married my DH?

You have only given examples of financial support. How often do you see your nephew and his sibling? How often do they come to your house? Have they ever stayed overnight without SIL? Are you active in any of their interests? do you attend any of their “events” (sports games, concerts, recitals...)? Do you have any sort of relationship with them beyond their mother?

Nope. Never attended any of the events cause we were never asked to. She has never attended any of our kids events either. It’s just a weird relationship

So you have never tried to establish a relationship with them and be there for them (not SIL). You do NOT need to be invited to be in their lives as an Aunt and Uncle.

It’s not a normal relationship. Everything has always revolves around SIL and her kid. She doesn’t like to come to our house because she said it makes her feel bad when she looks at our kids. She never ever discusses her problems with me or infront of me. She says she isn’t comfortable around me. Makes it really hard to provide emotional support in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be only answering the financial stuff and not the relationship stuff. In one post, she seems to think since the ASD diagnosis was 12 years ago, things should be fine now (ASD is forever and it is hard to raise a child with ASD no matter their age or how long you have known). She doesn’t answer how much the ex is in SIL’s life or their children’s. She also doesn’t answer what relationships she and DH have with their nephew and other niece/nephew (we have no knowledge on gender or age) and what they have done to promote those relationships.

I think this should be in the Money forum and not the Family Relationships forum.

No, I think this should be in Family Relationships because SIL is using her son's autism diagnosis as a reason to guilt trip her family into giving her money even though she makes $250K/year herself.

She would never lay a guilt trip like that on anyone else, just family.

Maybe SIL really needs the emotional help, but OP and DH are not doing that, so she settles for the financial help (to be able to throw money at the emotion bit).

What makes you think we haven’t shown any empathy or provided emotional support? [b]We have. Unfortunately as far as the in-laws dynamic is concerned, daughter in laws are always going to lose. No matter what they do for their husbands family it’s never enough, never right. There is expectation to keep giving and never receive, there is expectation that they can mistreat you since you are like family and families fight and it doesn’t mean anything but at the same time there is also expectation to keep things from you and exclude you from conversations since you are not really family. Sometimes I wonder if I had known how manipulative my in-laws were would I have still married my DH?

You have only given examples of financial support. How often do you see your nephew and his sibling? How often do they come to your house? Have they ever stayed overnight without SIL? Are you active in any of their interests? do you attend any of their “events” (sports games, concerts, recitals...)? Do you have any sort of relationship with them beyond their mother?

Nope. Never attended any of the events cause we were never asked to. She has never attended any of our kids events either. It’s just a weird relationship

So you have never tried to establish a relationship with them and be there for them (not SIL). You do NOT need to be invited to be in their lives as an Aunt and Uncle.

It’s not a normal relationship. Everything has always revolves around SIL and her kid. She doesn’t like to come to our house because she said it makes her feel bad when she looks at our kids. She never ever discusses her problems with me or infront of me. She says she isn’t comfortable around me. Makes it really hard to provide emotional support in this case.

Well she can't bristle around you and avoid you and then blame you for never being there for her. It sounds like she's taking her frustrations out on the nearest punching bag (unfortunately you). It is NOT your fault. And there is nothing you can do. Honestly, you've got to watch bringing your kids around her because she does seem to resent them. She's only human, true. But your kids have done nothing wrong. Neither have you.

She needs therapy and/or she needs to find an Autism support group to talk her issues out with.

[Anonymous]

Ignore.Ignore.Ignore. Grey rock!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a financial need, or a financial kindness you’re griping about?

Her child’s needs must have been significant to get evaluated and diagnosed at age 2. On top of dealing with that, having your husband leave.

OP, did you know that having a child with special needs (both mental/behavioural and physical) is a huge reason that many marriages fail?

Her income may mean little if she’s been paying OOP for the therapies and help to get her apparently early diagnosable child the help he needed to now go to a mainstream school. That doesn’t mean that help isn’t still needed.

Is it really hard to hear her out and pat her on the back occasionally?

And the financial stuff.. I’ll ask again - are you being asked to pay her electric bill, or is MIL wanting to pay for something nice for her?

She separated from her ex before the kid was born.
We have empathy. We have helped her out. Paid over 40k in lawyer fee. Listened to her and MIL talk about her problems. She bought a house against my DH advice, even though she knew she needed money for kids therapies and lawyer fee (they fight over visitation) and owes us money. We have ignored most of her unacceptable behavior because we have empathy, never asked to pay us back for the ‘loans’. But instead of showing a tiny bit appreciation for our help etc, she keeps expecting more and more.

What is it you're asking for then? Permission to do what, exactly?

On the money front, don't give her any more.

The help front, that's a bit more tricky. Despite her money and her choices that you disagree with, it's still his sister and your SIL. And having a special needs child can be very, very difficult even for people with money. I don't see why you can't help her out from time to time or listen to her complaints. Yes, we all have problems in life but there is a spectrum and hers appear to be on the more difficult end. You say you want to show empathy but your posts tell a different story.

So, again, what is it you're looking to have validated here?