S/O Do women play "hard to get" anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

That's some revisionist history right there.

this is a great book. timeless

Works works works!! Finally threw in the towel and followed it. Amazing courtship engagement and wedding!

This is only the best book ever. Changed my life and I credit it for my wonderful husband. I plan on giving it to my daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My original post probably wasn't the clearest, but I'm not getting back into the dating scene. I was more trying to figure out how to view the current news about gender relations. Back in my day, there was a certain level of expectation that a woman should make a guy chase her a little bit. Viewed through that lens, you give a guy a certain leeway to keep pursuing when a woman is playing hard to get. If that sort of thing isn't common anymore, then it makes it a lot clearer that a guy should just stop when his initiation isn't pretty immediately met with enthusiastic reciprocation.

You are in your late 40s? I'm just a couple of years younger, and I call bullshit. There were plenty of women in the 80s and 90s who were enthusiastically pursuing men. And you don't "give a guy a certain leeway to keep pursuing". What do you mean by this, exactly? No has always meant no, and women have been pretty overt with that message since the second wave; you could hardly not have known.

If you were in your 60s or 70s, maybe I'd buy this.

Fellow 40-something here. I think there is some difference though. I really don't think we were as casual about sex as young women are today, as evidenced by this Aziz story, the Cat Person tale, and even this week's Modern Love column. We had our share of one-night stands to be sure, but we didn't expect them to turn into relationships, and I don't think we considered them to be standard everyday dating like today's women do.[u] They seem to be having a lot of sex outside of relationships, and are then surprised when they're not treated respectfully. There's a disconnect there as I and others see it.

This, exactly.

40 year old man here, had my share on ONS too. In retrospect, they were fun, clumsy, amusing. Occasionally hot, sometimes exciting but rarely as great as your expectations were because we are human and it usually takes time to get into a sexual rhythm. I feel bad for my younger friends, they just don't date, they text and have sex (or don't have sex) which leaves out the essential human connection that takes sex from "release" to existential human connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

That's some revisionist history right there.

this is a great book. timeless

Works works works!! Finally threw in the towel and followed it. Amazing courtship engagement and wedding!

This is only the best book ever. Changed my life and I credit it for my wonderful husband. I plan on giving it to my daughter.

Will you give it to her even now that the authors are both divorced?

[Anonymous]

Tinder needs an agree to f button

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My original post probably wasn't the clearest, but I'm not getting back into the dating scene. I was more trying to figure out how to view the current news about gender relations. Back in my day, there was a certain level of expectation that a woman should make a guy chase her a little bit. Viewed through that lens, you give a guy a certain leeway to keep pursuing when a woman is playing hard to get. If that sort of thing isn't common anymore, then it makes it a lot clearer that a guy should just stop when his initiation isn't pretty immediately met with enthusiastic reciprocation.

You are in your late 40s? I'm just a couple of years younger, and I call bullshit. There were plenty of women in the 80s and 90s who were enthusiastically pursuing men. And you don't "give a guy a certain leeway to keep pursuing". What do you mean by this, exactly? No has always meant no, and women have been pretty overt with that message since the second wave; you could hardly not have known.

If you were in your 60s or 70s, maybe I'd buy this.

Fellow 40-something here. I think there is some difference though. I really don't think we were as casual about sex as young women are today, as evidenced by this Aziz story, the Cat Person tale, and even this week's Modern Love column. We had our share of one-night stands to be sure, but we didn't expect them to turn into relationships, and I don't think we considered them to be standard everyday dating like today's women do.[u] They seem to be having a lot of sex outside of relationships, and are then surprised when they're not treated respectfully. There's a disconnect there as I and others see it.

This, exactly.

40 year old man here, had my share on ONS too. In retrospect, they were fun, clumsy, amusing. Occasionally hot, sometimes exciting but rarely as great as your expectations were because we are human and it usually takes time to get into a sexual rhythm. I feel bad for my younger friends, they just don't date, they text and have sex (or don't have sex) which leaves out the essential human connection that takes sex from "release" to existential human connection.

41 here, and agree with all of this. One night stands were occasional and no one expected them to turn into relationships.
Getting oral sex on the first date seems really, really...intimate (?) to me.

I think she was disappointed that he was just interested in her as a one night stand, not as a relationship. She should have used her words like a big girl, and he should have been more sensitive--but they were both drinking, as well, which probably didn't help matters.

(And the repeated part of sticking his fingers in her mouth...what is that? I read a lot of romance novels and have never heard of that move.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

It doesn't seem to me that there were too many "No" responses when a woman exchanges flirtatious texts all week, goes to a man's apt before the date and drinks, has more drinks/flirting at dinner, goes up to his apt after dinner, and when he says I'm getting a condom she stays.

Maybe she thought they were going to make balloon animals?

Avoidant body language = put on your clothes + go home

But but but...women are too helpless and submissive to do that kind of direct body language. Men need to be able to read our posture, eye contsct, and arm placement.

How can you possibly expect such confident actions out of the weaker sex? We need peotectors.

[Anonymous]

They must not. When I met my husband and started dating he seemed blown away that I wouldn’t let him in my apartment on our third date. We kissed at the door and I was like BYE! I wasn’t playing games but simply enjoying my life and not into mindless sex. Any guy who wanted to get with me had to win me over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

That's some revisionist history right there.

this is a great book. timeless

Works works works!! Finally threw in the towel and followed it. Amazing courtship engagement and wedding!

This is only the best book ever. Changed my life and I credit it for my wonderful husband. I plan on giving it to my daughter.

Will you give it to her even now that the authors are both divorced?

Sherrie Schneider is still married to her husband, never divorced. Ellen Fein divorced and used The Rules to remarry a couple years later. Still happily married.

[Anonymous]

Men like the chase. There is definitely something fulfilling about having a crush on a woman, being creative in wining and dining, seducing her out of the bedroom, which eventually leads to anticipation and hopefully great sex and a relationship.

This isn't that different than anything else in life. You gain more fulfillment from working for something meaningful, even if its hard to get at first. Saving money for your first guitar is more meaningful than having your rich parents give it to you. Spending time to prepare a gourmet meal and eating it slowly is more satisfying than McDonalds fast food.

Men also can have sex just to scratch an itch. Or because it's there. A man with a high sex drive is not fully in control of his decisions (no I am not talking about rape, I am talking about the ability to say no if a woman is willing to have sex with you on the first date).

It's not so much that men don't respect women who have sex on the first date or are easy to catch, but that it doesn't allow the longing, anticipation, excitement to build.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

It doesn't seem to me that there were too many "No" responses when a woman exchanges flirtatious texts all week, goes to a man's apt before the date and drinks, has more drinks/flirting at dinner, goes up to his apt after dinner, and when he says I'm getting a condom she stays.

Maybe she thought they were going to make balloon animals?

Avoidant body language = put on your clothes + go home

But but but...women are too helpless and submissive to do that kind of direct body language. Men need to be able to read our posture, eye contsct, and arm placement.

How can you possibly expect such confident actions out of the weaker sex? We need peotectors.

First pp here. I was speaking in general, not specifically about the Aziz situation. IMO, if you don't want to have sex, you don't pop a d*ck into your mouth. She was giving mixed signals. I don't think Aziz did anything wrong, he was just gross and creepy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

That's some revisionist history right there.

this is a great book. timeless

Works works works!! Finally threw in the towel and followed it. Amazing courtship engagement and wedding!

This is only the best book ever. Changed my life and I credit it for my wonderful husband. I plan on giving it to my daughter.

Will you give it to her even now that the authors are both divorced?

Sherrie Schneider is still married to her husband, never divorced. Ellen Fein divorced and used The Rules to remarry a couple years later. Still happily married.

...so we need a 20+ year old book to tell us how to behave in order to get a man?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men like the chase. There is definitely something fulfilling about having a crush on a woman, being creative in wining and dining, seducing her out of the bedroom, which eventually leads to anticipation and hopefully great sex and a relationship.

This isn't that different than anything else in life. You gain more fulfillment from working for something meaningful, even if its hard to get at first. Saving money for your first guitar is more meaningful than having your rich parents give it to you. Spending time to prepare a gourmet meal and eating it slowly is more satisfying than McDonalds fast food.

Men also can have sex just to scratch an itch. Or because it's there. A man with a high sex drive is not fully in control of his decisions (no I am not talking about rape, I am talking about the ability to say no if a woman is willing to have sex with you on the first date).

It's not so much that men don't respect women who have sex on the first date or are easy to catch, but that it doesn't allow the longing, anticipation, excitement to build.

Do you get how bad you just made men look?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Men like the chase. There is definitely something fulfilling about having a crush on a woman, being creative in wining and dining, seducing her out of the bedroom, which eventually leads to anticipation and hopefully great sex and a relationship.

Sounds like you're describing a movie character, or maybe 1 actual guy out of 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Men like the chase. There is definitely something fulfilling about having a crush on a woman, being creative in wining and dining, seducing her out of the bedroom, which eventually leads to anticipation and hopefully great sex and a relationship.

Sounds like you're describing a movie character, or maybe 1 actual guy out of 50.

Wow your dating life must be SAD! This describes my then boyfriend now DH in our 20’s when I made him wait and work for me. Romance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men like the chase. There is definitely something fulfilling about having a crush on a woman, being creative in wining and dining, seducing her out of the bedroom, which eventually leads to anticipation and hopefully great sex and a relationship.

This isn't that different than anything else in life. You gain more fulfillment from working for something meaningful, even if its hard to get at first. Saving money for your first guitar is more meaningful than having your rich parents give it to you. Spending time to prepare a gourmet meal and eating it slowly is more satisfying than McDonalds fast food.

Men also can have sex just to scratch an itch. Or because it's there. A man with a high sex drive is not fully in control of his decisions (no I am not talking about rape, I am talking about the ability to say no if a woman is willing to have sex with you on the first date).

It's not so much that men don't respect women who have sex on the first date or are easy to catch, but that it doesn't allow the longing, anticipation, excitement to build.

Do you get how bad you just made men look?

?? Are you a man? I am. I am not trying to make a man look good or bad, it's just reality. What part is surprising to you? That men like the chase? That they will still have indiscriminate sex with most willing women? That they make really, really bad decisions with their penis, often times impulsive ones?