S/O Do women play "hard to get" anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women no longer feel the need to protect themselves against accusations of being easy so when we say not tonight, slow down, we just started dating... we mean it.

This is a bizarre post. Women seem to care a great deal about being perceived as easy. Overall, I think women care more about how they're perceived by other women than they do about the other person in the actual relationship.

And women have always meant it when they said slow down.

[Anonymous]

For some reason today's young women think they can (should?) seperate their desires for sex from their desires for a relationship. They don't get that they are intertwined. So when a guy disappoints them romantically after they've already been physical with each other, they think it must be the guy's fault, not that they did something wrong by having sexual encounters before expecting anything from the guy they are with.

See also yesterday's Modern Love piece from the NYT. Same theme. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/style/modern-love-hookup-ghosting-use-your-words.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fmodern-love&_r=0&referer=https://www.nytimes.com/section/fashion?nytmobile=0

[Anonymous]

Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

Quite correct. When she sucked Azaris dick that body language obviously meant sex was off the table. How could he not understand that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's different now. They aren't playing hard to get in a coy cone-hither way. They're either insecure and desperate so they don't make moves or they think they're better than.

They... don’t make moves because they’re... desperate? Wow with insights like those you should start a dating advice YouTube channel

Okay so you're older and married. Why respond?

I’m a millennial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh! No one was playing hard to get. No means no and it meant no then and it means no now. See also avoidant body language and other non verbal cues.

It doesn't seem to me that there were too many "No" responses when a woman exchanges flirtatious texts all week, goes to a man's apt before the date and drinks, has more drinks/flirting at dinner, goes up to his apt after dinner, and when he says I'm getting a condom she stays.

Maybe she thought they were going to make balloon animals?

Avoidant body language = put on your clothes + go home

You're leaving out that she sucked his dick which clearly means the woman doesn't want to have sex with the man. Everyone knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

News flash--women are a dime a dozen to superstars like Ansari. If she says no, there's 100 waiting in the wings to say how high when he says jump.

He did nothing wrong, she got burned. Lesson learned for our little starf4cker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

Maybe today's young women haven't figured out that their non-verbal cues are not obvious to men. Guys don't read body language as effectively as women. They often have to be told things very bluntly before they get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women no longer feel the need to protect themselves against accusations of being easy so when we say not tonight, slow down, we just started dating... we mean it.

This is a bizarre post. Women seem to care a great deal about being perceived as easy. Overall, I think women care more about how they're perceived by other women than they do about the other person in the actual relationship.

And women have always meant it when they said slow down.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

News flash--women are a dime a dozen to superstars like Ansari. If she says no, there's 100 waiting in the wings to say how high when he says jump.

He did nothing wrong, she got burned. Lesson learned for our little starf4cker.

That may be the case for Aziz Ansari but I'm not talking to him, I'm talking to OP, who probably isn't a celebrity and who is trying to figure out how to navigate the dating scene after being out of it for 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

Maybe today's young women haven't figured out that their non-verbal cues are not obvious to men. Guys don't read body language as effectively as women. They often have to be told things very bluntly before they get it.

Imagine that. saying what you mean. He makes a great point, people should pay attention to body language but it isnt always clear what people are ok. Thats why people need to speak up. There was an interesting article in the post about three Brazilian roommates that were shocked at how passive and in their eyes feminine men here were because they were scared to make a move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

What what an idea adults should speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Initiating is totally okay, as long as you don't take it too far too fast, and you don't persist when you've been rebuffed. If you ask for a woman's number and she declines, you walk away instead of pushing her to give it to you. Go ahead and ask her out, but if she says no or makes up some excuse without offering an alternative date, don't ask again. If a date is going well, you'd like to kiss her and she doesn't seem like she's keeping you at arm's length, go ahead and kiss her, but don't stick your tongue down her throat and/or grab her breast/ass.

As for incidents like the Aziz Ansari thing, there was a lot going on there, but a good starting point is that just because you saw a woman enjoy something in porn doesn't mean a real life woman is actually going to think it feels good. Keep things a little more straight forward and err on the side of taking things slow until you have a better sense of her sexual comfort and preferences. When in doubt, ask if she wants to do X, if she likes how something feels, or what she would like you to do to her.

99% of it (in the bedroom and outside) is paying attention to her and how she's responding rather than thinking ahead to the next thing you want to say/do to her.

Or, you know, the woman could speak up if something makes her uncomfortable.

Yes, women can speak up for themselves. But if you're dating someone you like and want to keep seeing, do you really want to get to the point where you make her so uncomfortable she needs to tell you to stop, which can be such a turn-off that you probably won't get another date with her? Isn't it better for everyone if you pay attention to how she's responding to you so you can stop before you reach that point? I mean, that's what you should be doing anyway when you're dating someone, paying attention to them and engaging with them in the moment, just because you've moved on from dinner to sex doesn't change that.

Maybe today's young women haven't figured out that their non-verbal cues are not obvious to men. Guys don't read body language as effectively as women. They often have to be told things very bluntly before they get it.

If a woman pulls away when you touch her breast, she doesn't want to have it touched. If she hasn't made a move to touch your penis, don't push her hand or head toward it. Is that really so difficult to figure out?