Teach Me to Raise an "Upper-Middle Class" Child

[Anonymous]

Many of the listed items are either wastes of time (e.g. butter) or enjoyable consumption goods that anyone would purchase more of if richer (e.g. travel), so the advice given seems to amount to "spend more money!"

Which is fine, but perhaps underscores what is confusing about the question; the difference between the rich and the affluent is merely the amount of goods purchased.

[Anonymous]

One thing I've struggled with in the transition is fashion. Growing up, I had five tips and five bottoms each season, because that stretched out budget to the max. Everything had to be pretty neutral, because anything too distinctive (bright color, bold pattern), would make it obvious really fast that I was wearing the same thing every week. And everything had to work together, because if you had a skirt that only went with one top and something happened to the top, I was down a bottom as well for the season. I still struggle with thing to put together a wardrobe, because I want more interesting stuff than I used to wear but I don't want to look garish, and I'm never comfortable I've hit the sweet spot. Accessories are something I've had to figure out too, I never had them growing up other than a couple of pairs of cheap earrings, nor did my mom. And what stores should I be shopping in, what's on-trend without being too trendy, what's too young for me and what's too old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're rich, OP. Maybe you don't come from rich, maybe you don't feel rich, but you ARE rich.

Teach your kid to eat at the table, elbows off, chew with mouth closed, don't talk with food in mouth. Butter only the bread you're about to chew. Don't butter the whole piece of bread and don't put a pat of butter on your plate to butter from. Napkin in lap. Please and thank you to waitstaff. Don't eat until everyone at the table has been served. Teach to eat neatly. Don't stuff your mouth full. Be willing to try new foods. Know how to say "I hate that crap!" nicely.

Teach your kid manners. Get up for old, handicapped, pregnant people. Hold the door for everyone with a smile. People who are poor are always out for themselves and are always desperate to get everything they can free. Only take one sample.

My DD has never taken swim lessons. She figured it out herself. But yes, know how to play sports. Doesn't have to win awards, but you don't want to be picked last for a team because you suck.

Serious question. If you're not supposed to butter the whole piece of bread and you're not supposed to put a pat of butter on your bread plate, what do you do with it? Do you just not use butter? Ask someone to pass the butter every time you want a bite of bread? The habit I picked up from client lunches at my first "professional" job was to take a pat of butter, and then eat the bread by breaking off a bite-sized piece, butter that bite individually, and then put the whole thing in my mouth. I don't butter the whole thing at once, and I never take a bite out of my bread and then put the rest back down. Is that wrong?

Lol, there is a butter plate on the table. You use your knife to portion off some butter, then butter the piece of bread you're about to bite. Put down your knife, bite your bread, put down the rest of the bread, chew and swallow. Then when you're ready for another bite of bread, butter than bit of bread. You can bite your bread and put the rest down on the bread plate. That's fine.

This is not right.
If there is a butter knife with the dish, use it to put butter on your bread plate of the side of your dinner plate if there is no bread plate. Then you break off a piece of the bread, put the larger whole piece of bread back on the plate, use your own knife to get butter from your plate and butter that tiny portion (hold it with thumb and forefinger). Put down your knife (once it's used on the plate, NEVER the table) Eat the bite of bread. pull off another bite and butter from the glob of butter in your plate. When you're out of butter, use the butter knife to put more butter on your plate. Repeat.

Can you all start a new thread?

I know the butter conversation is kind of dumb in the abstract, and yet I think the number of people here who seem unsure about how they're doing it highlights how hard it can be to move through a world where everyone else seems to know how to handle this kind of minutiae (and thus thinks it's dumb to have a discussion about) and you're second-guessing every move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never understood why it's so important to not butter your whole piece of bread. If it's s roll, I can see how that would look odd but if it's a sliced style of bread, why not?
Use the communal knife to put it on your plate, use your knife to spread it on the bread seems like an okay way to do it.


-immigrant

If you butter the whole slice of bread at once, it is almost impossible to eat without getting butter all around your mouth unless you're baring your teeth when you bite. If you tear off a bit and then butter it, the last part that goes in your mouth is the unbuttered portion that you were holding and your face stays butter-free.

[Anonymous]

One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op unlike the previous poster I will try to be helpful. My mom was like you and I am a product of grandparents who were homeless,?drug addicted, teen moms, etc.

My dad did very well in business and my family is now wealthy. My mom tried to play the game and was frustrated all my youth and probably still is.

Things she did--she got etiquette books and treated them like the Bible. She paid attention to other parents in the social circle she found herself in all the time. Asked open-ended questions like what activities is your DD doing? And pretended like she knew what was going on. "Oh, your DD is in tennis? We're considering it. I've been too busy to get her registered" The next week I'd be signed up for tennis. Of course she'd never thought of tennis. Same with piano.

Healthy food became important in these circles. She stopped cooking rice a roni at some point and moved to organics and steamed vegetables.

My advice is be yourself. This is a game you can't win and will kill yourself if you try to play. Just enjoy your kids and give them love and what you think they need.

Does anyone have a good modern etiquette book they would recommend? I don't need to know how to write a proper long-form rsvp to a wedding invitation, but there's probably stuff I'm missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

Yes, what you describe is more a mark of a nerdy family than an UMC one. I can imagine a HS science teacher parent doing the same thing, without being UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

Yes, what you describe is more a mark of a nerdy family than an UMC one. I can imagine a HS science teacher parent doing the same thing, without being UMC.

True. But the HS science teacher would not have been able to take the day off/work from home to actually experience this with his/her kids. That is what marks it as an UMC example.

[Anonymous]

someone on another thread mentioned The Sum of Small Things: A Theory of the Aspirational Class by Elizabeth Currid-Halkett.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op unlike the previous poster I will try to be helpful. My mom was like you and I am a product of grandparents who were homeless,?drug addicted, teen moms, etc.

My dad did very well in business and my family is now wealthy. My mom tried to play the game and was frustrated all my youth and probably still is.

Things she did--she got etiquette books and treated them like the Bible. She paid attention to other parents in the social circle she found herself in all the time. Asked open-ended questions like what activities is your DD doing? And pretended like she knew what was going on. "Oh, your DD is in tennis? We're considering it. I've been too busy to get her registered" The next week I'd be signed up for tennis. Of course she'd never thought of tennis. Same with piano.

Healthy food became important in these circles. She stopped cooking rice a roni at some point and moved to organics and steamed vegetables.

My advice is be yourself. This is a game you can't win and will kill yourself if you try to play. Just enjoy your kids and give them love and what you think they need.

Does anyone have a good modern etiquette book they would recommend? I don't need to know how to write a proper long-form rsvp to a wedding invitation, but there's probably stuff I'm missing.

I like The Miss Manners book, and Kate Spade has a cute one out too. The important thing is not to be too stiff. "Drag your mink" as they say. A littler irreverence goes a long way.

Now that you have accumulated money, you and your family need cultural capital. I like the ideas above about reading and visiting museums. Watch films and immerse yourself in international cinema. Try to go to just follow along in social media when it's fashion week. Have the kids find their "thing" and develop it so it is broadly applicable. For example. I'm a curator, and my art history background is great for dinner party and cocktail hour conversations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never understood why it's so important to not butter your whole piece of bread. If it's s roll, I can see how that would look odd but if it's a sliced style of bread, why not?
Use the communal knife to put it on your plate, use your knife to spread it on the bread seems like an okay way to do it.


-immigrant

If you butter the whole slice of bread at once, it is almost impossible to eat without getting butter all around your mouth unless you're baring your teeth when you bite. If you tear off a bit and then butter it, the last part that goes in your mouth is the unbuttered portion that you were holding and your face stays butter-free.

I think butter is the new bobcat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

This. I tested into a high honors English class when I was 14, a freshman in high school. I was shocked at how many kids had already read and discussed classic pieces of literature with their parents.

Meanwhile, I was raised by a blue collar dad and a SAHM in a tiny rental. I wasn't even familiar with the idea of symbolism in literature. I took everything I read literally. I struggled in that class all year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of the listed items are either wastes of time (e.g. butter) or enjoyable consumption goods that anyone would purchase more of if richer (e.g. travel), so the advice given seems to amount to "spend more money!"

Which is fine, but perhaps underscores what is confusing about the question; the difference between the rich and the affluent is merely the amount of goods purchased.

But see manners aren't a waste of time. If op wants to fit in, manners are one of those subtle "free" signals of wealth and status.

[Anonymous]

I find the butter discussion fascinating! I had no idea that you are not supposed to butter your whole piece of bread

[Anonymous]

so, I come from privilege and my husband's family is more working class, albeit not poor. so, we have a bit of culture clash from time to time. Some of it is activity stuff: I took dancing and gymnastics and piano and horsebackriding and swimming. DH can't swim (although I keep encouraging him to learn - that one is a legit safety issue), let alone any of the other stuff. but mostly, we bump along just fine. and I learn stuff his family did that mine never did. but he gets frustrated when there is apparently everyday stuff he doesn't know - like table etiquette or something. And he frequently blames his parents for his lack of knowledge about random stuff that he assumes I know because I'm UMC. perhaps he is right, I don't know, but my parents grew up working class and they managed to be WONDERFUL parents.

it's fine to want to make sure your kids have the same advantages as their peers. but mostly just make sure your kids never feel less than because they don't do something that other wealthy families do. And don't make your kids do stuff they don't like just because it is what wealthy families do. my siblings and I ditched almost all of those lessons by middle school and focused on the things we had found that we like. it is WONDERFUL that you can give your kids opportunities that you never had. but don't push it just to keep up with the joneses; ask lots of questions to discover what is out there and then figure out what seems meaningful and important to YOU. some UMC stuff is actually useful or important; lots of it is just noise.

my preschoolers take swim lessons, do yoga with me, we do some worksheets from time to time . . . and that's about it. we play boardgames as a family. we tried swim lessons but the older kid hated it; we'll try again next year. I'd love the kids to take up music lessons but I thought I'd wait until they can focus a little.