Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

Unless the winners cheat. In which case, they are stripped of their titles and barred from the sport. Lots of the "top" kids at TJ cheat. As a TJ parent who would never let my kid get away with cheating, I don't have to respect cheaters. My kid certainly doesn't.

Name them, who are they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

Unless the winners cheat. In which case, they are stripped of their titles and barred from the sport. Lots of the "top" kids at TJ cheat. As a TJ parent who would never let my kid get away with cheating, I don't have to respect cheaters. My kid certainly doesn't.

Name them, who are they?

Wait a sec. You want someone to start posting the names of minors who cheater on DCUM? Hard pass. If you are so interested, ask your kid who was involved in the dophomore class cheating rink, as a starting place. Or just ask your kid period. All the kids know who has been caught for integrity violations. And many of the kids who regularly cheat and aren't caught. It's not a secret among the TJ students. But no one is posting names on s public forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

Unless the winners cheat. In which case, they are stripped of their titles and barred from the sport. Lots of the "top" kids at TJ cheat. As a TJ parent who would never let my kid get away with cheating, I don't have to respect cheaters. My kid certainly doesn't.

Name them, who are they?

Wait a sec. You want someone to start posting the names of minors who cheater on DCUM? Hard pass. If you are so interested, ask your kid who was involved in the dophomore class cheating rink, as a starting place. Or just ask your kid period. All the kids know who has been caught for integrity violations. And many of the kids who regularly cheat and aren't caught. It's not a secret among the TJ students. But no one is posting names on s public forum.

If what you said is true then what are you afraid of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

Unless the winners cheat. In which case, they are stripped of their titles and barred from the sport. Lots of the "top" kids at TJ cheat. As a TJ parent who would never let my kid get away with cheating, I don't have to respect cheaters. My kid certainly doesn't.

Name them, who are they?

Wait a sec. You want someone to start posting the names of minors who cheater on DCUM? Hard pass. If you are so interested, ask your kid who was involved in the dophomore class cheating rink, as a starting place. Or just ask your kid period. All the kids know who has been caught for integrity violations. And many of the kids who regularly cheat and aren't caught. It's not a secret among the TJ students. But no one is posting names on s public forum.

If what you said is true then what are you afraid of?

To start with Jeff would delete the thread. Because it is minors. And Intrust my kid, but the names come from him, not my first hand knowledge. So, it seems irresponsible to name names, in case he is wrong on one or more. And also since the school is allegedly dealing with it and parents have been informed, posting the names on a public forum is wrong. Now, the number of cheating violations this year (almost 90) is absolutely true, because the school released this info.

If you don't think it's true, check out TJ Vents from earlier this year on the sophomores cheating ring. If you are a TJ parent, though, you know it's true, because you have gotten 2 academic integrity updates with the numbers of academic integrity violations included, including one less than a week ago. Plus been asked to fill out an academic integrity survey. And, you kids has had to attend a mandatory meeting this year. And there have been two parent-teacher-student meeting in the last couple weeks. And you know what the school improvement plan says. Plus, YOUR KID can tell you the names without someone posting publicly. And if you aren't a TJ parent, I'm not sure why the names matter to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

[Anonymous]

Ethics should somehow be part of the admission criteria, although sadly, some kids would find a way to cheat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

Why can't the school just give the cheating student an "F" grade? That would automatically take the overall grade down to a 3.0 or below and the student will get expelled. As to the "cheaters are mostly Asian" comment, of course they will be since the TJ population "skews 70% Asian".

There is no excuse for unethical behavior. Parents notwithstanding, the school should have policies that should discourage cheating. IF there aren't any such policies, then there is no incentive for someone to stop. Period. You can holler all day long about ethics, unethical parents, Indians, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.. but what's the point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

Why can't the school just give the cheating student an "F" grade? That would automatically take the overall grade down to a 3.0 or below and the student will get expelled. As to the "cheaters are mostly Asian" comment, of course they will be since the TJ population "skews 70% Asian".

There is no excuse for unethical behavior. Parents notwithstanding, the school should have policies that should discourage cheating. IF there aren't any such policies, then there is no incentive for someone to stop. Period. You can holler all day long about ethics, unethical parents, Indians, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.. but what's the point?

Yep. This is how it got this far. And what a lot of pissed off parents are saying. And yet, there is also a group of TJ parents against cracking down in cheating. (I wonder why that would be...). And the admin is just not taking it seriously. I hope the new principal does. Until my kid went to TJ, as thought the TJ cheaters thing was sour grapes, etc. And I started getting the emails with the numbers and hearing from my DC how out of control the cheating is. So I guess I was naive. In my mind, going to TJ is a privilege. You cheat, you forfeit the right to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

I don't see people deflecting. I do see people conflating cheating and prepping. Prepping is fine for this on the bubble who can do the work but need to answer an extra question or two to make it in. Extreme preppers may struggle once they get to TJ. Cheating is much different and not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

Why can't the school just give the cheating student an "F" grade? That would automatically take the overall grade down to a 3.0 or below and the student will get expelled. As to the "cheaters are mostly Asian" comment, of course they will be since the TJ population "skews 70% Asian".

There is no excuse for unethical behavior. Parents notwithstanding, the school should have policies that should discourage cheating. IF there aren't any such policies, then there is no incentive for someone to stop. Period. You can holler all day long about ethics, unethical parents, Indians, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.. but what's the point?

Yep. This is how it got this far. And what a lot of pissed off parents are saying. And yet, there is also a group of TJ parents against cracking down in cheating. (I wonder why that would be...). And the admin is just not taking it seriously. I hope the new principal does. Until my kid went to TJ, as thought the TJ cheaters thing was sour grapes, etc. And I started getting the emails with the numbers and hearing from my DC how out of control the cheating is. So I guess I was naive. In my mind, going to TJ is a privilege. You cheat, you forfeit the right to attend.

Are there seriously parents who are publicly taking a stand that TJ should not punish cheating? I can't even imagine parents being okay with cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i agree. The prepping is a huge problem with so many of these kids struggling once they get there It is freeing to know that not prepping won't put you at a disadvantage.

And you think it will remain the same? People will figure it out and start prepping soon....

Only way to avoid prepping would be to not release the name of the test. Students just show up on test day and take the test. Every year they randomly select a test among a set of 10 or more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

Why can't the school just give the cheating student an "F" grade? That would automatically take the overall grade down to a 3.0 or below and the student will get expelled. As to the "cheaters are mostly Asian" comment, of course they will be since the TJ population "skews 70% Asian".

There is no excuse for unethical behavior. Parents notwithstanding, the school should have policies that should discourage cheating. IF there aren't any such policies, then there is no incentive for someone to stop. Period. You can holler all day long about ethics, unethical parents, Indians, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.. but what's the point?

Yep. This is how it got this far. And what a lot of pissed off parents are saying. And yet, there is also a group of TJ parents against cracking down in cheating. (I wonder why that would be...). And the admin is just not taking it seriously. I hope the new principal does. Until my kid went to TJ, as thought the TJ cheaters thing was sour grapes, etc. And I started getting the emails with the numbers and hearing from my DC how out of control the cheating is. So I guess I was naive. In my mind, going to TJ is a privilege. You cheat, you forfeit the right to attend.

Are there seriously parents who are publicly taking a stand that TJ should not punish cheating? I can't even imagine parents being okay with cheating.

Welcome to TJ. Where parents would lose their sh*t if a kid got a zero on a test because they cheated. But don't seem to care if they cheat. Parents could put a stop to it by telling kids that if TK turns them into a cheater, they can go back to their base school. 90 parents this year decided they didn't care. And many argued that no punishment, and especially none that impacted grades, should be administered. UUGGHH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

When I was in college, they made it very clear to us, from orientation on, that cheating would be punished, with an F for the test or course or possibly expulsion, depending on the severity of the cheating and any prior record. High schools should teaching kids not to cheat.

TJ, though, does have a possible punishment in its back pocket that I believe would cause students to think twice before cheating. That would be to send the kids back to their regular schools. I'm not sure why they're not telling kids that cheating is unacceptable and will be punished every time.

+1. They should. It would stop the cheating epidemic. Quickly. But, they are fighting the parents on this, who seem to think that cheating is okay. See the people on this thread deflecting, saying sour grapes, and attacking. School can't solve a parents with poor values.

But, I think everyone in FCPS should be pissed. A lot of smart qualified kids are turned down each year. If kids are kicked out, there are plenty of qualified kids to take their place. People should be putting pressure on the school board to get serious and give TJ the ability to kick kids out, just like they can for less than a 3.0.

Why can't the school just give the cheating student an "F" grade? That would automatically take the overall grade down to a 3.0 or below and the student will get expelled. As to the "cheaters are mostly Asian" comment, of course they will be since the TJ population "skews 70% Asian".

There is no excuse for unethical behavior. Parents notwithstanding, the school should have policies that should discourage cheating. IF there aren't any such policies, then there is no incentive for someone to stop. Period. You can holler all day long about ethics, unethical parents, Indians, Chinese, blah, blah, blah.. but what's the point?

Yep. This is how it got this far. And what a lot of pissed off parents are saying. And yet, there is also a group of TJ parents against cracking down in cheating. (I wonder why that would be...). And the admin is just not taking it seriously. I hope the new principal does. Until my kid went to TJ, as thought the TJ cheaters thing was sour grapes, etc. And I started getting the emails with the numbers and hearing from my DC how out of control the cheating is. So I guess I was naive. In my mind, going to TJ is a privilege. You cheat, you forfeit the right to attend.

Are there seriously parents who are publicly taking a stand that TJ should not punish cheating? I can't even imagine parents being okay with cheating.

Welcome to TJ. Where parents would lose their sh*t if a kid got a zero on a test because they cheated. But don't seem to care if they cheat. Parents could put a stop to it by telling kids that if TK turns them into a cheater, they can go back to their base school. 90 parents this year decided they didn't care. And many argued that no punishment, and especially none that impacted grades, should be administered. UUGGHH.

My kid is a TJ grad who is in college now. We filled out those academic integrity surveys every year, but it didn't seem that anything was ever done. I'm impressed that they're sending home emails with the number of infractions- that seems to indicate that maybe they're finally taking cheating more seriously.

I agree with someone above who essentially said it should be three strikes and you're outta there.

[Anonymous]

Why is TJ creating an environment where children feel compelled to cheat to get good grades? is this all the fault of children and parents alone, or something to do with teachers and principal on how they teach and conduct tests? there needs to be comprehensive study done by a third party to find the bottom of this. I heard from some of the parents that TJ teachers do not teach the full material and give out tests frequently from university level test papers that are not directly found in the materials taught. They say TJ isn't trying to make kids interested in reseach and knowledge enhancement, but making them compete with each other over grades, creating a toxic environment. Some of the complaints seems to be that TJ is deliberately looking for opprtunities to cut grades. I don't know if this is true, but a lot of blame is on the current principal who allegedly created this type of environment.

So, it begs the question. What is TJ for? is it really doing what it was intended to do, or is it at this time making kids compete with each other for grades in an unhealthy manner?