Stay with my underemployed DH for the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

So motherhood is retirement? Also, did you notice that my children were not under her care during this depressive episode? I spent nearly 3K a month on full time daycare so it's not like I had a spouse who was a SAHP and keeping things running at home. She was depressed, sleeping or crying. But yes, I am horrible.

Maybe she was postpartum.

I am not suggesting that any person, male or female, should stay married and enable self-defeating behavior.

I take issue with your emphasizing that she needed to get a job and contribute to the family financially. When I saw that written my stomach actually turned in disgust. I wouldn't suggest a man ever marry a woman with size-able student loans, and I wouldn't suggest that he marry someone without the expectation that he be taking the full financial load up through early childhood and significantly thereafter.

Most women, especially those with full-time jobs and children but even those staying at home with children, are seriously overworked and exhausted. So I would hardly call it retirement. The fact that you suggest so reveals even more of your pitiful and repulsive view on the matter. I'd be depressed if I was married to you, too. *Shiver*

She wasn't postpartum. She actually was in good spirits until she finished grad school (during which time the children were in full time daycare). She never was home with the children short of a few months after they were born. And she doesn't want to nor was in she in any space where it would even be safe to consider this during this terrible, terrible time. So, if a woman doesn't want to be a full time SAHM and doesn't want to work, then...that's okay? I would rather be divorced and a single parent than deal with that bullshit.

To be clear, no I do not think her expecting daycare and not to work is ok. If you gave her the option to stay home and actually take care of kids and the house but she acted too high-and-mighty for it yet didn't want to face the reality of working and not immediately getting a dream job with people blowing smoke up her ass and telling her she is amazing all day, then I apologize for jumping down your throat.

But it sounded like you both bought into the very-difficult-to-pull off, near-fantasy of two serious career people making a family work.

[Anonymous]

I would wait and see what happens once he gets his teaching certificates. It may be that things improve once he get a more regular job, even if teaching isn't what he really wants to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

If she won't contribute financially and won't contribute at home ... then ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

So motherhood is retirement? Also, did you notice that my children were not under her care during this depressive episode? I spent nearly 3K a month on full time daycare so it's not like I had a spouse who was a SAHP and keeping things running at home. She was depressed, sleeping or crying. But yes, I am horrible.

Maybe she was postpartum.

I am not suggesting that any person, male or female, should stay married and enable self-defeating behavior.

I take issue with your emphasizing that she needed to get a job and contribute to the family financially. When I saw that written my stomach actually turned in disgust. I wouldn't suggest a man ever marry a woman with size-able student loans, and I wouldn't suggest that he marry someone without the expectation that he be taking the full financial load up through early childhood and significantly thereafter.

Most women, especially those with full-time jobs and children but even those staying at home with children, are seriously overworked and exhausted. So I would hardly call it retirement. The fact that you suggest so reveals even more of your pitiful and repulsive view on the matter. I'd be depressed if I was married to you, too. *Shiver*

She wasn't postpartum. She actually was in good spirits until she finished grad school (during which time the children were in full time daycare). She never was home with the children short of a few months after they were born. And she doesn't want to nor was in she in any space where it would even be safe to consider this during this terrible, terrible time. So, if a woman doesn't want to be a full time SAHM and doesn't want to work, then...that's okay? I would rather be divorced and a single parent than deal with that bullshit.

To be clear, no I do not think her expecting daycare and not to work is ok. If you gave her the option to stay home and actually take care of kids and the house but she acted too high-and-mighty for it yet didn't want to face the reality of working and not immediately getting a dream job with people blowing smoke up her ass and telling her she is amazing all day, then I apologize for jumping down your throat.

But it sounded like you both bought into the very-difficult-to-pull off, near-fantasy of two serious career people making a family work.

Yes, to the bolded. And apology accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there is one thing I have learned from reading DCUM, it is that women despise men who are unemployed.

Wouldn't you? It's a tale as old as time that men should be the breadwinners. But recent Forbes poll indicated that 29% of American households have a female as the major breadwinner. They don't take into account however the different percentages of single working mothers, lesbian parents, or heterosexual married working mothers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is one thing I have learned from reading DCUM, it is that women despise men who are unemployed.

Wouldn't you? It's a tale as old as time that men should be the breadwinners. But recent Forbes poll indicated that 29% of American households have a female as the major breadwinner. They don't take into account however the different percentages of single working mothers, lesbian parents, or heterosexual married working mothers.

Yes, women despise men who are unemployed. If you're trying to wrap your head around it as a man you should imagine having sex with a 60 year old, hairy, 400 pounder.

That said, women have responsibilities that they often shirk, too. Like giving up on marriage when things get tough way too soon (women do initiate most divorces, and if you are a regular reader on this board you can also see that for yourself clear as day).

So, I can see why many men don't feel the duty and responsibility around being a "provider" in the modern climate - for many men, it can be a life-ruining path if the wife starts to feel dissatisfied with the marriage for more than a year or two.

In my opinion, men should be honest with themselves about the fact that no matter how promising a career a woman seems like she is embarking on, he should expect to be the main provider no matter what. He should definitely NOT marry a woman who has a shit ton of student loans.

And the vast majority of women should be realistic about the fact that they basically have 2 options: stay at home with kids or work a mommy job while kids are small.

Adulthood means responsibility. That is why people are so angry at gender roles - because gender roles imply adulthood and duty. People want to imagine that they can have a fantasy life.

[Anonymous]

PP, I agree with most of what you said except the part of never marrying someone with a huge student loan debt. In this day and age where Masters are a dime a dozen with women, it is virtually impossible to find the majority of well bred women to be without student loans unless her family had money. From a financial standpoint, based off what you said women who have grad degrees and over 100-200k in student loans would never have a chance to be married to a good provider. That's wrong.

There is a lot of responsibilities as a woman/mother and it is well known that mothers have it harder than fathers no matter how good the father is. The real problem is that men no longer feel obligated to be the breadwinner, but even that isn't the real issue. it's how messed up society has become with trying to make everyone equals when in fact that's just not realistic. People forget that marriage is hard work and refuse to work for something they took vows for years ago. People give up when the going gets tough.

I would never marry someone who believed in divorce as the solution for when the going gets tough. Marriage is work EVERY single day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I agree with most of what you said except the part of never marrying someone with a huge student loan debt. In this day and age where Masters are a dime a dozen with women, it is virtually impossible to find the majority of well bred women to be without student loans unless her family had money. From a financial standpoint, based off what you said women who have grad degrees and over 100-200k in student loans would never have a chance to be married to a good provider. That's wrong.

There is a lot of responsibilities as a woman/mother and it is well known that mothers have it harder than fathers no matter how good the father is. The real problem is that men no longer feel obligated to be the breadwinner, but even that isn't the real issue. it's how messed up society has become with trying to make everyone equals when in fact that's just not realistic. People forget that marriage is hard work and refuse to work for something they took vows for years ago. People give up when the going gets tough.

I would never marry someone who believed in divorce as the solution for when the going gets tough. Marriage is work EVERY single day.

Do you think it makes sense to go to grad school and rack up ONE HUNDRED to TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS in loan debt and then not pursue a serious career?
That is CRAZY.

I think men marry women like this all the time. But it's gigantic financial loss, and it's not a smart move as a woman to hope that someone will marry you and not hate your guts after they find out that you don't really want to pay that debt back. You don't have to get a useless masters to prove that you are "well bred." Although I do agree that many women feel pressure to do so, and that's extremely sad and causes a great deal of pain and suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I agree with most of what you said except the part of never marrying someone with a huge student loan debt. In this day and age where Masters are a dime a dozen with women, it is virtually impossible to find the majority of well bred women to be without student loans unless her family had money. From a financial standpoint, based off what you said women who have grad degrees and over 100-200k in student loans would never have a chance to be married to a good provider. That's wrong.

There is a lot of responsibilities as a woman/mother and it is well known that mothers have it harder than fathers no matter how good the father is. The real problem is that men no longer feel obligated to be the breadwinner, but even that isn't the real issue. it's how messed up society has become with trying to make everyone equals when in fact that's just not realistic. People forget that marriage is hard work and refuse to work for something they took vows for years ago. People give up when the going gets tough.

I would never marry someone who believed in divorce as the solution for when the going gets tough. Marriage is work EVERY single day.

Don't you just love "well known" statements? Its omnibus support for any argument some wants to make without having any real support for it other than their opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there is one thing I have learned from reading DCUM, it is that women despise men who are unemployed.

Wouldn't you? It's a tale as old as time that men should be the breadwinners. But recent Forbes poll indicated that 29% of American households have a female as the major breadwinner. They don't take into account however the different percentages of single working mothers, lesbian parents, or heterosexual married working mothers.

Did they account for households with no children? It's a big growing population and without the stress of children there is often more $$$ and I'd imagine less concern if the female earns more in the partnership.

[Anonymous]

I read most of the posts but not all. To me it boils down to a) you don't like your husband's job and b) you need to grieve that 3rd child you never had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I agree with most of what you said except the part of never marrying someone with a huge student loan debt. In this day and age where Masters are a dime a dozen with women, it is virtually impossible to find the majority of well bred women to be without student loans unless her family had money. From a financial standpoint, based off what you said women who have grad degrees and over 100-200k in student loans would never have a chance to be married to a good provider. That's wrong.

There is a lot of responsibilities as a woman/mother and it is well known that mothers have it harder than fathers no matter how good the father is. The real problem is that men no longer feel obligated to be the breadwinner, but even that isn't the real issue. it's how messed up society has become with trying to make everyone equals when in fact that's just not realistic. People forget that marriage is hard work and refuse to work for something they took vows for years ago. People give up when the going gets tough.

I would never marry someone who believed in divorce as the solution for when the going gets tough. Marriage is work EVERY single day.

taking 100 to 200K in student loans without no plan to pay it back is financially irresponsible...a trait not attractive in a spouse both a man or a woman.

If the plan to pay back the student loans is to marry some schmuck to pay it back for you, the woman is no better than a parasite.

[Anonymous]

Give him an ultimatum (x months to pull his weight at home and/or get a respectable job). Let him choose. I'm sorry. I divorced a deadbeat and have never looked back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:back to OP. I think its been very hard on you, and you feel bad because you're resentful, but you know that hasn't helped, and he's depressed, so you dont want to make it worse, yadda yadda.

I think you need to now focus on doing what you can to ensure he is up to date with certification and getting a job in teaching. If he's truly committed to it, then I think you have to let go of the past 3 years and focus on the future. But make sure he understands that he really has to move in that direction and bartending is not an option for much longer.

I would cast it less as 'you need a real job' and more as the fact that your schedules are untenable, you dont have family time together and its exhausting. But I would point out that during the day, he can and should be doing things to take the load off you, since presumably you have full time care of kids every night. Can you make it not about blame and just about creating a schedule so that you both have time for work, sleep and a relatively balanced load with the kids? a couple sessions of therapy might help, and some individual for you, just to have a place to deal with your volatile feelings.

+1

I also get the vibe OP that you're pretty high maintenance. I'm not sure whether you'd have been happy had he stayed employed. There were clearly issues before he was laid off, and perhaps contributed to that situation. Have you considered that he may not want the lifestyle you had at the expense of (fill in the blank).

[Anonymous]

We make plans and God laughs at us. Op you just need to role with it. You can't make him do anything. You love him and you need to just suck it up and live in your truth. This is your truth right now and that's fine.