Stay with my underemployed DH for the kids?

[Anonymous]

Will your life get better if you split up? Granted, a dead relationship is soul-sucking. On the plus side for leaving, you have your own peace of mind. That may be the only plus.

If he moves out, you'll need an afterschool care plan for the kids, unless he continues that. Additionally, he'll be spending his salary on an apartment, so you won't have access to his salary, and any child support will be minimal, especially if he has the 50% default custody hours and he earns less than you do. You'll still need to hire a sitter to go out on evenings and weekends, since he'll still have to work then. His contribution to the housework will go from slim to none, since he won't live there anymore. If he is a slob, you are better off. If the mess belongs to the kids, you may be worse off.

Above all, you should not count on finding a better relationship. Dating is tough with small kids and a full time job, and ambitious men often won't take on someone else's children. Second marriages have a higher failure rate than first ones, especially when there are kids in the equation.

[Anonymous]

Went through this with my DH, and I too had to issue a major ultimatum I was fully prepared to back up. We were in couples therapy and our therapist told him (DH) that he was about to lose everything. The light bulb went on, finally. DH now has a great job - unfortunately it's 2000 miles away and we are still sorting the logistics of (likely) moving. I thank god every day that we made it through the rough patch, and my trust and confidence is coming back slowly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

[Anonymous]

Hold on a second...he swallowed his pride to work as a bartender but let his teaching certificates lapse? And works nights/weekends? And doesn't clean up? Just no. No way. I would seriously wonder if the bartending gig helps him feel young and this the reason he's dragging his feet. Those folks work hard but the job is also pretty social...I'll also point out as a former waitress that it's not an awesome profession for a married guy with 2 little kids. Other restaurant workers know what I'm talking about.

Dude needs to go back to the classroom and be home at night if you have a newborn, FFS.

[Anonymous]

He sounds lazy in that he waited THREE YEARS to essentially resume his full time career.

However, he's supposedly getting his ducks in a row. Stay on top of it and see if he follows thru. If he doesn't really try and try and try to get back into education, I'd give him an ultimatum. Status quo is not acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

So if it's a man he is supposed to be a human ATM and live with a depressed wife and never say enough is enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hold on a second...he swallowed his pride to work as a bartender but let his teaching certificates lapse? And works nights/weekends? And doesn't clean up? Just no. No way. I would seriously wonder if the bartending gig helps him feel young and this the reason he's dragging his feet. Those folks work hard but the job is also pretty social...I'll also point out as a former waitress that it's not an awesome profession for a married guy with 2 little kids. Other restaurant workers know what I'm talking about.

Dude needs to go back to the classroom and be home at night if you have a newborn, FFS.

I agree you guys should try and find some way to get into therapy. I have never worked in the restaurant industry, but its my understanding that its ripe with heavy drinking and drug use. The late nights coupled with possible heavy drinking could be the reason he is pretty much useless at home during the day.

Plus the people who work in the restaurant industry are probably not the best influence. My ex boyfriend from college started bartending after graduation and continued for years. He has an undergraduate and graduate degree from a very highly regarded school (think ivy league) and he continued bartending into his 30s. Its not easy an easy lifestyle to get out of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

So if it's a man he is supposed to be a human ATM and live with a depressed wife and never say enough is enough?

It's one thing to apply pressure in the realm of being a mother. It's another to whine about her not contributing enough financially. I could never have sex with someone who did that. The thought is beyond disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

So motherhood is retirement? Also, did you notice that my children were not under her care during this depressive episode? I spent nearly 3K a month on full time daycare so it's not like I had a spouse who was a SAHP and keeping things running at home. She was depressed, sleeping or crying. But yes, I am horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

So motherhood is retirement? Also, did you notice that my children were not under her care during this depressive episode? I spent nearly 3K a month on full time daycare so it's not like I had a spouse who was a SAHP and keeping things running at home. She was depressed, sleeping or crying. But yes, I am horrible.

Maybe she was postpartum.

I am not suggesting that any person, male or female, should stay married and enable self-defeating behavior.

I take issue with your emphasizing that she needed to get a job and contribute to the family financially. When I saw that written my stomach actually turned in disgust. I wouldn't suggest a man ever marry a woman with size-able student loans, and I wouldn't suggest that he marry someone without the expectation that he be taking the full financial load up through early childhood and significantly thereafter.

Most women, especially those with full-time jobs and children but even those staying at home with children, are seriously overworked and exhausted. So I would hardly call it retirement. The fact that you suggest so reveals even more of your pitiful and repulsive view on the matter. I'd be depressed if I was married to you, too. *Shiver*

[Anonymous]

back to OP. I think its been very hard on you, and you feel bad because you're resentful, but you know that hasn't helped, and he's depressed, so you dont want to make it worse, yadda yadda.

I think you need to now focus on doing what you can to ensure he is up to date with certification and getting a job in teaching. If he's truly committed to it, then I think you have to let go of the past 3 years and focus on the future. But make sure he understands that he really has to move in that direction and bartending is not an option for much longer.

I would cast it less as 'you need a real job' and more as the fact that your schedules are untenable, you dont have family time together and its exhausting. But I would point out that during the day, he can and should be doing things to take the load off you, since presumably you have full time care of kids every night. Can you make it not about blame and just about creating a schedule so that you both have time for work, sleep and a relatively balanced load with the kids? a couple sessions of therapy might help, and some individual for you, just to have a place to deal with your volatile feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post could have had so many titles as there are so many issues...here it goes. I guess we have the typical story of everything being wonderful in the beginning. We would travel and were really best friends. He was a teacher and worked his way up to administration. Then we suffered a late pregnancy loss, some mild IF, and then had kids back to back. We always said we wanted three kids but DH found out he was laid off from his job of 7 years shortly after we brought our second baby home from the hospital. We made about the same salary at the time so that was a 50% cut. That was almost three years ago...... The first year he kept thinking he would get something and when I went back to work, both of the kids were in daycare. He tried to get part time jobs but Target, FedEx, Best Buy etc., would not even call him back. One manager asked why was a guy with two advanced degrees even applying at his store. Times were really hard back then. For the past two years he has been very underemployed working as a bartender (he did that in college as well). Every few months we have the argument about him finding a job and he claims that he is looking but hasn't gotten any offers. He has been on a few interviews but nothing pans out. I am worried that he is going to stick with the 'safe' option of working in a bar forever. He has finally agreed to get current teaching certificates so that he can hopefully go back in the class. The problem is that whenever I try to ask how things are going, we get into an argument. I have so much resentment from the last few years I am contemplating leaving but then of course think of my kids and push leaving to the back.

He does pick the kids up from school/pre-school and is a good Dad. He loves the kids and of course they love him. He is a horrible 'home maker' in that usually, the house is a wreck when I get home. No, I don't think it should be spotless but it is so frustrating to come home from a long day, take second shift with the kids, and still have to go clean the dishes before I can make dinner! I know he has pride issue and I have tried to be sensitive to how hard it is for him but at this point, I am over it. Nobody considers how hard the past few years have been on me and I feel like I am always accommodating him. His schedule means I am alone almost every night with the kids and every weekend while he is at work. It is no surprise that in order to make good tips, you need to be out at night. I am lonely and tired of being home all the time. I can never go out with friends let alone us have a date night. I guess I am just wondering if there is a way back for us? In my heart, I do love him and want our family to stay together so I guess I need some suggestions on how to reframe my thinking. We have no connection anymore. I just feel so angry and resentful all of the time that he is not home, that I have no life, that we work so much and are still just getting by, etc. Since I'm totally exposing myself, I also am angry that I didn't get a chance to have my last baby because he doesn't have a job. Our anniversary is this weekend and yep, he will be at work!

Please be kind DCUM. I am sure there will be plenty of people telling me to suck it up and stop being a baby etc. I have lost a lot of respect for him over the past few years as I don't think he has done everything he could to get another job and help out at him. How do I move past that? No, he will not go to counseling. He says he loves me and wants our family to stay together...

at least you see him everyday, even for few hours. My situation is worse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, are you saying he is unable to find work as a teacher?

This times a million. If it's a certification question, he should look into working in a higher demand area like SPED or ESOL to get back into a school district.

OP, I think this is so, so hard. I also am married to a spouse who was unemployed or under employed and who spent a ton of time and money on a graduate degree that is basically worthless because she doesn't want to work in that field. My DW was in the midst of a crisis of confidence and depression, OP. And unlike your DH, basically was sort of mentally checked out at home (we too had two kids back to back). I had the same question, OP. I didn't really know what to do except try my best to make things work. First, I went to therapy -- alone -- to work through my own resentment issues so I could be supportive without any agenda but DW's interest. Second, I encouraged DW to realistically look at her life and choices and decide what's what. Third, I put a deadline in place. DW needed to take a job (she was offered several but turned them down) and pay her own student loan payments and contribute to daycare or else I would just go it alone with the kids.

Eventually DW saw the writing on the wall and got with the program. She finally accepted a job and while it's not her "dream" she is contributing to her family financially and she is engaging in less of the self inflicted crisis stuff that she did before. She also is in therapy, which I put on her to do (I would join but she doesn't think it's necessary). Things are better but I will say it's hard to support a spouse through a job loss. This is the worst side of for better or worse.

I'm sorry but it's just not the same when the genders are reversed. SO GLAD I'm not married to someone like you. Barf.

Why? I say this as the DH poster who talked about therapy. Should I have just sucked it up and continued to operate as a single parent in a marriage because I was a man? Does being a woman allow someone to sleep in, check out on her children mentally, and not contribute to the financial or day to day operations of a household? Is that why it's so barf worthy? Because I wanted a spouse to actually be a partner in my marriage and contribute to our family in a meaningful way? Tell me again, why is it different because it was a woman checked out?

You should never marry a woman expecting her to have children and contribute financially. You should be prepared to have that piece covered. Maybe your wife is depressed because she married someone who can't cut it.

So motherhood is retirement? Also, did you notice that my children were not under her care during this depressive episode? I spent nearly 3K a month on full time daycare so it's not like I had a spouse who was a SAHP and keeping things running at home. She was depressed, sleeping or crying. But yes, I am horrible.

Maybe she was postpartum.

I am not suggesting that any person, male or female, should stay married and enable self-defeating behavior.

I take issue with your emphasizing that she needed to get a job and contribute to the family financially. When I saw that written my stomach actually turned in disgust. I wouldn't suggest a man ever marry a woman with size-able student loans, and I wouldn't suggest that he marry someone without the expectation that he be taking the full financial load up through early childhood and significantly thereafter.

Most women, especially those with full-time jobs and children but even those staying at home with children, are seriously overworked and exhausted. So I would hardly call it retirement. The fact that you suggest so reveals even more of your pitiful and repulsive view on the matter. I'd be depressed if I was married to you, too. *Shiver*

She wasn't postpartum. She actually was in good spirits until she finished grad school (during which time the children were in full time daycare). She never was home with the children short of a few months after they were born. And she doesn't want to nor was in she in any space where it would even be safe to consider this during this terrible, terrible time. So, if a woman doesn't want to be a full time SAHM and doesn't want to work, then...that's okay? I would rather be divorced and a single parent than deal with that bullshit.

[Anonymous]

If there is one thing I have learned from reading DCUM, it is that women despise men who are unemployed.