Boundaries!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:or you could try making her feel included in common areas instead of hiding out in the bedroom with her granddaughter and then getting all put out when she wants to join in. jerk.

signed, a DIL

OP here. I wasn't "hiding out." After serving a great breakfast, I took a shower while they played, then when the other adults showered and dressed, we made the bed and had playtime.

They've been here for more than a week. I've cooked, we've done activities, we've chatted, we've gotten a sitter and then taken them out to dinner...

How about give us 20 minutes alone, knock, and get off my BED?!

Yeah, your MIL was out of line. There's no reason for her to go in the master bedroom, and it's really ok to have a few minutes alone with your kid.

Did you say anything? The only thing I can think of would be an instant response as soon as she started to go through the door saying, "We'll be down in a minute!" But that's hindsight. I would be so shocked if my MIL did this, I wouldn't really know what to do.

OP here. In re: some previous posts, I wasn't feeding a baby...I don't know how that got inferred. I was playing on a made bed with a toddler, and the door was only open a very small crack. We had been "social" and inclusive the whole visit...we had already all spent a LOT of time together. I had just showered/dressed, and was playing with DD while the other adults showered and dressed.

Anyway, to the point above. I didn't say anything. I simply got up quickly and said, "Let's go play downstairs." It really wasn't that big a deal (the actual "incident"), but I just needed a harmless little outlet for my momentary frustration (this thread).

The bigger issue with her is just boundaries in general. Of any kind. She just doesn't respect them. Examples:
1) She calls and texts numerous times every time we make up the drive to see them to ask where we are/how we're doing/what time we'll arrive. (It's not a long trip, but long enough that it's annoying to get multiple calls.) We've asked her not to do that because it's not exactly safe, and the at-the-time baby needed the car sleep, and it's just annoying, etc. She refuses to stop making those calls. We just ignore them now. We call or text to let them know when we leave, and give a general expected arrival time. If we hit traffic or something, we give an update. It's just enough, already. But the phone is still ringing/buzzing...

2) When I was breastfeeding, she always wanted to be in the room, even though I was not comfortable with that. She'd peek in. She'd ask to come in. I'd always say no. She'd say "but [name-of-friend's daughter] doesn't mind." Well, I do. It's a boundary. I'll see you in 20 minutes. It's not a big deal.

3) When we visit/they visit, she and my FIL really do expect to spend every minute together. Holidays=everyone sits in a circle in one room ALL DAY, and it is considered rude to have even a magazine or look at your phone/iPad. "We should be chatting." As a result, the conversation is really repetitive, and it's just stifling. No one else but her and my FIL want the dynamic to be that way, but my husband and his sister just give into it, so my SIL's wife and I have to give into it, too. If someone leaves to even go to the bathroom, they are accused of "disappearing." So there are no social boundaries, as it were.

I know that, taken individually, all these things are small/petty. But they add up. She doesn't respect boundaries. I feel like she doesn't listen to me or respect me. I feel like she doesn't see me as an individual in my own right, but rather as someone who should conform to her standards/rules/way of thinking. So anyway, we have a generally good relationship, and I do actually like her, but sometimes I just need to vent into the void a little bit.

I'm a PP who thought the demarcation of the "marriage bed" as sacred was weird, but I agree with you that, taken together, these definitely present some boundary issues. I too would feel stifled.

I don't think anyone thought you were feeding a baby. A different poster chimed in with a complaint that her MIL won't leave the room when she wants to nurse (though it doesn't sound like she made clear to the MIL that she was uncomfortable nursing in front of her).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that that is a bit intrusive. But Jeez. It comes from love. That really isn't bad as much as it may be uncomfortable.

Are you kidding me? Gross. The granddaughter was probably conceived in that bed. There should be some sacred, personal space.

And she didn't even knock? RUDE. My in-laws don't behave this way, thankfully.

Um, so?! My son was probably conceived bent over the bathroom counter in my old condo- was no one supposed to be able to go pee in there?! It wasn't like she crawled under the covers and took a snooze while you were changing clothes. Yes, I think knocking and waiting is always good but I think you have to be a troll to be serious about this level of excitement over this.

Un effing clench (and I hate that overused phrase!)

My mom has sat on my bed in my bedroom, she's someone's MIL after all, and the world did not stop. But I'm sure YOUR mom is somehow exempt from these rants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that that is a bit intrusive. But Jeez. It comes from love. That really isn't bad as much as it may be uncomfortable.

Are you kidding me? Gross. The granddaughter was probably conceived in that bed. There should be some sacred, personal space.

And she didn't even knock? RUDE. My in-laws don't behave this way, thankfully.

Um, so?! My son was probably conceived bent over the bathroom counter in my old condo- was no one supposed to be able to go pee in there?! It wasn't like she crawled under the covers and took a snooze while you were changing clothes. Yes, I think knocking and waiting is always good but I think you have to be a troll to be serious about this level of excitement over this.

Un effing clench (and I hate that overused phrase!)

My mom has sat on my bed in my bedroom, she's someone's MIL after all, and the world did not stop. But I'm sure YOUR mom is somehow exempt from these rants?

OP here. For the record, I was NOT the poster who said the "marriage bed is sacred." I don't want anyone but me, my husband and my daughter in the bed, but I don't particularly think it's because it is "sacred." I just think I've shared enough time and space, already, and I want a bit of a refuge.

And that's not just my MIL...I need some "away time" when any guest visits, including my mom. I'm not the "hang out in the bed" type. I'd rather be on the couch with family and friends. So I'm not "discriminating" against MIL in this regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how old your toddler is, but would you be ok with DH taking her up for a visit without you? What about saying you're going to visit x tourist place or y playground during the visit because DD will need to burn off some energy?

Or have DH ask them down and say very clearly in advance that you have some plans during that time that you need to follow (or you and DD, so you get some time with your kid and DH can handle his parents alone)?

I think you've got to start being a little creative about breaking up the dynamic. I definitely see how your MIL's actions were particularly annoying when you're never given space at all. Find a positive way to take it!

My husband has been inching toward being comfortable with me establishing some work-arounds and boundaries. He started out with the attitude that "this is the way it is done in my family," but I think him being around my family--and hearing thoughts from my SIL and her wife--he is starting to realize that we all, together, need to create a family dynamic, not just have MIL and FIL dictate a family dynamic.

He's taken two trips up to see them with DD on his own. We've managed to skip one "MANDATORY" family beach weekend because we had a wedding out of town the weekend before, and a huge work event for me the weekend after, and it was just too much. (This was a big ordeal--but he helped me stand our ground, and we did it.) The last time we were at his parents' house for Thanksgiving, I convinced him that he and I should take his 18-year-old shy/socially awkward cousin out for pizza and to see "The Hunger Games" as a fun little outing after DD was asleep instead of sitting around in THE FAMILY CIRCLE for hour after hour that evening. (Which was awesome because the cousin came out of his shell and talked a lot, and I think it strengthened their bond.) So having my husband recognize that we should participate in creating a family-time dynamic that is comfortable for us, too, rather than just accepting "the way it is" has been helpful.

But we're not there yet...

[Anonymous]

Our various opinions on how private one's bed is don't matter. The OP considers HER bed a private space, and her MIL does not. And according to the patterns demonstrated, the MIL does not generally respect boundaries.

When you deal with someone like this, accept that they're going to push boundaries and it's up to you to stand up to it. When you speak up, laying out a simple boundary rule, they're going to argue and downplay and try to make you feel like you're being overly sensitive or difficult.

Never explain. State it pleasantly, shrug and say that's how you feel, and case closed. It's not your problem if they don't like it. My husband is currently learning to put up boundaries with his zero-boundary family, and that's what he keeps saying, as it's a new concept to him. It's not your problem if they don't like your boundaries or how you do things. It's theirs to adjust to.

Take preventative measures to show very clear rules and boundaries. Shut your bedroom door all the way when MIL is visiting, and when she walks in, calmly tell her you need your bedroom to be your private space and that when your door is closed she shouldn't come or knock unless it's a life or death emergency. Do not back down. Usher her out.

People who don't respect boundaries are just sometimes clueless and not sensitive to social cues. Those people don't mean you any harm, in the sense that they're not trying to control you or invalidate you or have their way at your expense. They just have different boundaries, or can't read that yours are different. It's up to you to communicate what's comfortable for you.

On the other hand, there are those who try to manipulate, push, and control others this way. That's a more tricky situation. Listen to your gut.

[Anonymous]

I must be a weirdo because I wouldn't have had a problem with this. Then I reread the OP thinking maybe it said she and DH were rolling around in bed... and realized I still wouldn't have cared if that had happened.

But then, MIL is super loving and sweet-hugs and kisses me every morning and night when we are visiting.

You could've made a nice memory, but you blew it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:or you could try making her feel included in common areas instead of hiding out in the bedroom with her granddaughter and then getting all put out when she wants to join in. jerk.

signed, a DIL

OP here. I wasn't "hiding out." After serving a great breakfast, I took a shower while they played, then when the other adults showered and dressed, we made the bed and had playtime.

They've been here for more than a week. I've cooked, we've done activities, we've chatted, we've gotten a sitter and then taken them out to dinner...

How about give us 20 minutes alone, knock, and get off my BED?!

Yeah, your MIL was out of line. There's no reason for her to go in the master bedroom, and it's really ok to have a few minutes alone with your kid.

Did you say anything? The only thing I can think of would be an instant response as soon as she started to go through the door saying, "We'll be down in a minute!" But that's hindsight. I would be so shocked if my MIL did this, I wouldn't really know what to do.

OP here. In re: some previous posts, I wasn't feeding a baby...I don't know how that got inferred. I was playing on a made bed with a toddler, and the door was only open a very small crack. We had been "social" and inclusive the whole visit...we had already all spent a LOT of time together. I had just showered/dressed, and was playing with DD while the other adults showered and dressed.

Anyway, to the point above. I didn't say anything. I simply got up quickly and said, "Let's go play downstairs." It really wasn't that big a deal (the actual "incident"), but I just needed a harmless little outlet for my momentary frustration (this thread).

The bigger issue with her is just boundaries in general. Of any kind. She just doesn't respect them. Examples:
1) She calls and texts numerous times every time we make up the drive to see them to ask where we are/how we're doing/what time we'll arrive. (It's not a long trip, but long enough that it's annoying to get multiple calls.) We've asked her not to do that because it's not exactly safe, and the at-the-time baby needed the car sleep, and it's just annoying, etc. She refuses to stop making those calls. We just ignore them now. We call or text to let them know when we leave, and give a general expected arrival time. If we hit traffic or something, we give an update. It's just enough, already. But the phone is still ringing/buzzing...

2) When I was breastfeeding, she always wanted to be in the room, even though I was not comfortable with that. She'd peek in. She'd ask to come in. I'd always say no. She'd say "but [name-of-friend's daughter] doesn't mind." Well, I do. It's a boundary. I'll see you in 20 minutes. It's not a big deal.

3) When we visit/they visit, she and my FIL really do expect to spend every minute together. Holidays=everyone sits in a circle in one room ALL DAY, and it is considered rude to have even a magazine or look at your phone/iPad. "We should be chatting." As a result, the conversation is really repetitive, and it's just stifling. No one else but her and my FIL want the dynamic to be that way, but my husband and his sister just give into it, so my SIL's wife and I have to give into it, too. If someone leaves to even go to the bathroom, they are accused of "disappearing." So there are no social boundaries, as it were.

I know that, taken individually, all these things are small/petty. But they add up. She doesn't respect boundaries. I feel like she doesn't listen to me or respect me. I feel like she doesn't see me as an individual in my own right, but rather as someone who should conform to her standards/rules/way of thinking. So anyway, we have a generally good relationship, and I do actually like her, but sometimes I just need to vent into the void a little bit.

Great gawd. Nooooooooooooo to all of this above. NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My FIL walked into our CLOSED bedroom door while simultaneously knocking, and caught me naked. When he tried to defend himself, I simply said, "A knock is a request for permission to enter--NOT an announcement of your arrival."

You managed to quickly cover up, come out with this lengthy, marmy gem, while also clutching your pearls? Multitasking at it's best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I must be a weirdo because I wouldn't have had a problem with this. Then I reread the OP thinking maybe it said she and DH were rolling around in bed... and realized I still wouldn't have cared if that had happened.

But then, MIL is super loving and sweet-hugs and kisses me every morning and night when we are visiting.

You could've made a nice memory, but you blew it

MIL-on-the-bed-after-not-knocking might have been a nice memory *for you,* but it wouldn't be a nice memory for me, and doesn't sound like it would be for OP, either.

Upthread, OP said she had done "girl time" of taking her MIL and her daughter to tea. THAT sounds like a nice memory.

Memories and moments are only nice if everyone is comfortable and feels respected. You can't force a relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My FIL walked into our CLOSED bedroom door while simultaneously knocking, and caught me naked. When he tried to defend himself, I simply said, "A knock is a request for permission to enter--NOT an announcement of your arrival."

You managed to quickly cover up, come out with this lengthy, marmy gem, while also clutching your pearls? Multitasking at it's best!

Who said she said that to him in the moment? She probably said that to him after he exited, she dressed, and she came out to him blustering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

People who don't respect boundaries are just sometimes clueless and not sensitive to social cues. Those people don't mean you any harm, in the sense that they're not trying to control you or invalidate you or have their way at your expense. They just have different boundaries, or can't read that yours are different. It's up to you to communicate what's comfortable for you.

On the other hand, there are those who try to manipulate, push, and control others this way. That's a more tricky situation. Listen to your gut.

OP here. I truly appreciated the larger post these snippets came from!

My MIL probably falls somewhere between the "clueless and not sensitive to social cues" and "manipulative/controlling/pushy" personality types you've described above. (Trust me, there are a LOT more examples of "Boundaries!" than just the ones I've already posted.)

The hard part, for me, is not becoming so defensive that I automatically perceive all her behavior as manipulative/controlling, but also not becoming so passive/resigned that I accept all of her boundary-ignoring behavior. I want to be able to take one moment, one visit at a time, but that is hard after so many years of feeling ignored/disrespected/manipulated.

Another thing I have to guard against is letting my husband/SIL/SIL's wife's anecdotes and reactions color my own. When my SIL and her wife tell me about some of the issues/struggles they have over the years, it's hard not to feel indignant/angry/sad/defensive on their behalf. But I do think I let it affect my relationship with MIL. I would like to be able to focus on my own experiences with her without "piling on" my empathy for what other family members experience.

Anyway, it could be worse, and I also believe it can be better. But sometimes, I just need to vent a little, and I don't see what the big deal is about me not liking her on my bed, especially after her not knocking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People who don't respect boundaries are just sometimes clueless and not sensitive to social cues. Those people don't mean you any harm, in the sense that they're not trying to control you or invalidate you or have their way at your expense. They just have different boundaries, or can't read that yours are different. It's up to you to communicate what's comfortable for you.

On the other hand, there are those who try to manipulate, push, and control others this way. That's a more tricky situation. Listen to your gut.

OP here. I truly appreciated the larger post these snippets came from!

My MIL probably falls somewhere between the "clueless and not sensitive to social cues" and "manipulative/controlling/pushy" personality types you've described above. (Trust me, there are a LOT more examples of "Boundaries!" than just the ones I've already posted.)

The hard part, for me, is not becoming so defensive that I automatically perceive all her behavior as manipulative/controlling, but also not becoming so passive/resigned that I accept all of her boundary-ignoring behavior. I want to be able to take one moment, one visit at a time, but that is hard after so many years of feeling ignored/disrespected/manipulated.

Another thing I have to guard against is letting my husband/SIL/SIL's wife's anecdotes and reactions color my own. When my SIL and her wife tell me about some of the issues/struggles they have over the years, it's hard not to feel indignant/angry/sad/defensive on their behalf. But I do think I let it affect my relationship with MIL. I would like to be able to focus on my own experiences with her without "piling on" my empathy for what other family members experience.

Anyway, it could be worse, and I also believe it can be better. But sometimes, I just need to vent a little, and I don't see what the big deal is about me not liking her on my bed, especially after her not knocking!

I agree, that was a very insightful comment.

[Anonymous]

Hoping you succeed in navigating all this! You have good intentions...she probably does, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I must be a weirdo because I wouldn't have had a problem with this. Then I reread the OP thinking maybe it said she and DH were rolling around in bed... and realized I still wouldn't have cared if that had happened.

But then, MIL is super loving and sweet-hugs and kisses me every morning and night when we are visiting.

You could've made a nice memory, but you blew it

I hate when posters say others shouldn't feel the way they feel under totally different circumstances. Bed w/MIL does not equal a nice memory for OP...big whoop!

[Anonymous]

Close doors. Fully. heck, put a locking knob on it too. Problem solved.