Does anyone ever get fired in MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a horrible teacher at my child's elementary school. She would belittle the students (2nd graders) and had horrible nicknames for them. Several of the students developed terrible anxiety problems and started medication. One year she didn't cover science and then gave each of the students a B in science. The principal's response was to demote her from 3rd grader to 2nd grade. She is still there and the principal denies there is a problem.

Changing to a lower grade is not a demotion. Nor is changing to a higher grade a promotion.

I'm sorry about your child's experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They technically do - they run out the good teachers with poor administration and not treating them well and keep the crappy ones.

So very true.
Why are those 70 something year olds still playing their dirty games in the office of teacher recruitment?
So many talented teachers apply to MCPS who never receive any call back for an interview, while classrooms get assigned people with 'emergency certifiations", peope with minimal or no experience in teaching.

A lot of people with emergency certification are part of partnership programs that MCPS has with local colleges. These people are often career-changers who may have limited experience in teaching, but more experience in working hard, collaborating with others and learning new things. They have gotten the most up-to-date education on teaching techniques and strategies, usually with a MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching). Not saying they won't need support in their first years of teaching, but just to clarify that emergency certification doesn't necessarily equal "possible loser with a pulse."

Well in French Immersion or Spanish Immersion, almost every teacher assigned comes with an emergency certification.
There is no shortage of teachers who speak these languages fluently in our area.
I know for a fact that several teachers from Montreal who have been applying to teach immersion classes, and are still waiting to be offered a position. In one of the elementary schools a few years back, one teacher was a model in her country, another a policeman, a third supposedly a pharmacist and so on ... all of them were hired to teach elementary level French immersion. And since they have no education coursework they were given five years to take education classes and pass PRAXIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is VERY hard to be fired from MCPS - and I work for MCPS. If you have a strong principal who can work the system - they can put a teacher on PAR or push them out of the school. However, that doesn't get them fired. Even on PAR it can take years or not happen at all. And this is with complaints from teachers, family, etc. It's very frustrating as a teacher to watch an ineffective or completely ineffective teacher languish in the system.

This is so sad. My child's K teacher was terrible. It makes me sick to know that she'll have 20 kids every year for as long as she wants to teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Short answer: No. It is very hard to fire a teacher.

Long answer: the problem is administration. Weast pushed out the good administrators and "recruited" a bunch of "Yes-men" who would do whatever WEAST wanted (and Weast was a total moron). So what you have right now is a bunch of weak, spineless "leaders" in MCPS who cannot run a school or student body, and just spend their time out of the building at meetings, "trainings", checking in with their principal mentors and being totally oblivious to what is actually going on in their schools.

I am a teacher and I hate it. I see the teachers around me who are terrible at their job and should be kicked out, but the paper trail has to be long (talking years) and almost always the union protects these idiots.

I say - no tenure, no union. Period. I don't think we go to a merit pay system, but I think we find better ways to evaluate teachers. Bottom line, ask any teacher or student in a school who the worst three teachers in the building are, and they will all have pretty much the same answer. It is sad.

v

Teacher here. +1. Our principal is almost never in the building but the building runs more efficiently that way so it's fine. But then they decide the focus of the school next year should be based on whatever Kool Aid they've been given in their 90 zillion meetings and trainings which entirely contradicts THIS year's focus, but you all had better be on board so just forget that what we've been doing has been working because somebody whose job exists solely to create and recreate acronyms and hasn't been in the classroom for 20 years says so. Please come to your next team meeting with dynamic ways to make this happen so that I (the principal) can sit at my next principals meeting and receive accolades for being a good little puppet.

I love teaching and I care deeply about my students but I'm nearing the end of my rope and I'm only on year 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Short answer: No. It is very hard to fire a teacher.

Long answer: the problem is administration. Weast pushed out the good administrators and "recruited" a bunch of "Yes-men" who would do whatever WEAST wanted (and Weast was a total moron). So what you have right now is a bunch of weak, spineless "leaders" in MCPS who cannot run a school or student body, and just spend their time out of the building at meetings, "trainings", checking in with their principal mentors and being totally oblivious to what is actually going on in their schools.

I am a teacher and I hate it. I see the teachers around me who are terrible at their job and should be kicked out, but the paper trail has to be long (talking years) and almost always the union protects these idiots.

I say - no tenure, no union. Period. I don't think we go to a merit pay system, but I think we find better ways to evaluate teachers. Bottom line, ask any teacher or student in a school who the worst three teachers in the building are, and they will all have pretty much the same answer. It is sad.

v

Teacher here. +1. Our principal is almost never in the building but the building runs more efficiently that way so it's fine. But then they decide the focus of the school next year should be based on whatever Kool Aid they've been given in their 90 zillion meetings and trainings which entirely contradicts THIS year's focus, but you all had better be on board so just forget that what we've been doing has been working because somebody whose job exists solely to create and recreate acronyms and hasn't been in the classroom for 20 years says so. Please come to your next team meeting with dynamic ways to make this happen so that I (the principal) can sit at my next principals meeting and receive accolades for being a good little puppet.

I love teaching and I care deeply about my students but I'm nearing the end of my rope and I'm only on year 9.

I teach public school in another large east coast city, and I wholeheartedly agree with the second comment.

[Anonymous]

Transfers aren't all bad. Just like there's schools that are a bad fit for a specific kid, but at another he flourishes, the same goes for teachers and admin. Over a decade, I've worked with 3 people at more than one school: two teachers and one principal. It was interesting to see how we all changed based on the setting. Not always for the best either. The award winning principal with whom I began my career lured me to a different school where he tanked and has left MCPS entirely. I was never ineffective but I became a much better teacher at a subsequent school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They technically do - they run out the good teachers with poor administration and not treating them well and keep the crappy ones.

So very true.
Why are those 70 something year olds still playing their dirty games in the office of teacher recruitment?
So many talented teachers apply to MCPS who never receive any call back for an interview, while classrooms get assigned people with 'emergency certifiations", peope with minimal or no experience in teaching.

A lot of people with emergency certification are part of partnership programs that MCPS has with local colleges. These people are often career-changers who may have limited experience in teaching, but more experience in working hard, collaborating with others and learning new things. They have gotten the most up-to-date education on teaching techniques and strategies, usually with a MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching). Not saying they won't need support in their first years of teaching, but just to clarify that emergency certification doesn't necessarily equal "possible loser with a pulse."

Well in French Immersion or Spanish Immersion, almost every teacher assigned comes with an emergency certification.
There is no shortage of teachers who speak these languages fluently in our area.
I know for a fact that several teachers from Montreal who have been applying to teach immersion classes, and are still waiting to be offered a position. In one of the elementary schools a few years back, one teacher was a model in her country, another a policeman, a third supposedly a pharmacist and so on ... all of them were hired to teach elementary level French immersion. And since they have no education coursework they were given five years to take education classes and pass PRAXIS.

So w/in that 5-year span, are they pulling strategies out of their asses?

Here's the problem. Teaching is not ONLY about content; it's about planning. You can have a PhD in physics, which doesn't often translate into good instruction.

And I would NEVER hire a teacher just b/c s/he passed the PRAXIS. I know of several teachers trained in a content who studied for the SPED PRAXIS and passed. Do you honestly think that they're fully prepared to work with special education students?

It's unbelievable what we let through the gates.

I have two undergraduate degrees that complement each other and a masters in school administration. My advanced training is also in school improvement, curriculum development, facilitation, and coaching. So I get the big picture. And hiring anyone - w/o the training in backward planning/scaffolding, in writing mastery objectives, in determining which strategies best match learners, in identifying learning styles, in . . . I could go on and in - we do kids a major disservice.

If done right, teaching is THE MOST DIFFICULT job anyone can have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The simple answer is that it is very difficult to get rid of a tenured teacher unless some misbehavior is suspected. I think a lot has to do with the teacher's relationship with the principal. We have a lousy teacher in our ES but she survives, and there have been complaints about her teaching levied for about 8 years. You'd have to pay me lots to teach in MCPS, and frankly, I am unimpressed with 2.0 and the new grading.

A teacher of 35 years said to a girl in front of a class of 30+ students, "How can your mother let you out of the house looking like that. You look like a hooker."

Just one of her more famous quotes this year.

I bet the teacher was right, though!

+1

I think it all the time. I just don't say it because 9 times out of 10, mom comes sashaying in dressed like a "working girl" herself.

Honestly, this attitude is so out of date, I'm boggled. It doesn't not matter one bit what girls wear to school. Who cares if a girl comes to school dressed like a hooker? Do you care because you think it is disturbing for the boys? Then you are prioritizing the education and needs of boys over girls. It is not a girl's job in our society to present herself in a way that makes boys/men comfortable. Boys are responsible for maintaining their own focus and keeping their hands and eyes to themselves. My DD attends a high FARMS school and dress code is a MAJOR impediment to the way girls (and boys) behave in school. Young girls waste a tremendous amount of time and psychic energy thinking about whether what they are going to wear passes dress code. If it's even a close call, they then spend tremendous time at school getting hassled by various teachers. And, young men are sent the message that the way a woman dresses justifies treating her like crap. And teachers are wasting valuable time worrying about dress code instead of teaching. And, teachers like the one you mention above are perpetuating dangerous (yes, dangerous, considering date rape stats) stereotypes. All this when the reading MSA "Basic" fail rates are astonishingly high. I don't care if the girls come to school NAKED, just teach them to read and freakng forget about what everyone is wearing.

Geez. What century do you all live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The simple answer is that it is very difficult to get rid of a tenured teacher unless some misbehavior is suspected. I think a lot has to do with the teacher's relationship with the principal. We have a lousy teacher in our ES but she survives, and there have been complaints about her teaching levied for about 8 years. You'd have to pay me lots to teach in MCPS, and frankly, I am unimpressed with 2.0 and the new grading.

A teacher of 35 years said to a girl in front of a class of 30+ students, "How can your mother let you out of the house looking like that. You look like a hooker."

Just one of her more famous quotes this year.

I bet the teacher was right, though!

+1

I think it all the time. I just don't say it because 9 times out of 10, mom comes sashaying in dressed like a "working girl" herself.

Honestly, this attitude is so out of date, I'm boggled. It doesn't not matter one bit what girls wear to school. Who cares if a girl comes to school dressed like a hooker? Do you care because you think it is disturbing for the boys? Then you are prioritizing the education and needs of boys over girls. It is not a girl's job in our society to present herself in a way that makes boys/men comfortable. Boys are responsible for maintaining their own focus and keeping their hands and eyes to themselves. My DD attends a high FARMS school and dress code is a MAJOR impediment to the way girls (and boys) behave in school. Young girls waste a tremendous amount of time and psychic energy thinking about whether what they are going to wear passes dress code. If it's even a close call, they then spend tremendous time at school getting hassled by various teachers. And, young men are sent the message that the way a woman dresses justifies treating her like crap. And teachers are wasting valuable time worrying about dress code instead of teaching. And, teachers like the one you mention above are perpetuating dangerous (yes, dangerous, considering date rape stats) stereotypes. All this when the reading MSA "Basic" fail rates are astonishingly high. I don't care if the girls come to school NAKED, just teach them to read and freakng forget about what everyone is wearing.

Geez. What century do you all live in?

I couldn't care less what the 13 year old boys think about the half naked girl next to them. Unfortunately, the other 13 year old girls in the classroom do care so the side boob, belly buttons, and butt cheeks are a distraction. So I care about that.

I also care about the long term prospects of the girl who thinks all she has to offer her classmates is her half naked body. No homework. No participation. Plenty of selfies. Plenty of drama on Twitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I couldn't care less what the 13 year old boys think about the half naked girl next to them. Unfortunately, the other 13 year old girls in the classroom do care so the side boob, belly buttons, and butt cheeks are a distraction. So I care about that.

I also care about the long term prospects of the girl who thinks all she has to offer her classmates is her half naked body. No homework. No participation. Plenty of selfies. Plenty of drama on Twitter.

And your beliefs about girls and skimpy clothes justify a teacher telling a girl, in front of the class, "How can your mother let you out of the house looking like that. You look like a hooker."?

How about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I couldn't care less what the 13 year old boys think about the half naked girl next to them. Unfortunately, the other 13 year old girls in the classroom do care so the side boob, belly buttons, and butt cheeks are a distraction. So I care about that.

I also care about the long term prospects of the girl who thinks all she has to offer her classmates is her half naked body. No homework. No participation. Plenty of selfies. Plenty of drama on Twitter.

And your beliefs about girls and skimpy clothes justify a teacher telling a girl, in front of the class, "How can your mother let you out of the house looking like that. You look like a hooker."?

How about that.

I never said the teacher was right was right to say it. You are responding to multiple people.

[Anonymous]

You have to know how to defend yourself in MCPS because you will see tons of questionable stuff such as violence, grade fraud, etc. They want someone who will play ball with them or you will be targeted period. The teacher protections are just a show. They can fire for no reason at all. In the words of my previous admin-evaluations are all in how they are framed. If you play ball they will frame you positively. If you don't understand how so corruption can go on you will be framed very negatively. They will even straight up lie about you if you don't play ball

[Anonymous]

You never really get clear expectations because they lie to you and about you. Tenure is a thing of the past as they can fire for no reason at all. Then when they do have a reason such as a principal who sucks and whose negligence leads to broomstick rape....yeah somehow they are immune to anything and get to keep kushy jobs. Three cheers for mcps and MCEA hip hip HOORAPE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You never really get clear expectations because they lie to you and about you. Tenure is a thing of the past as they can fire for no reason at all. Then when they do have a reason such as a principal who sucks and whose negligence leads to broomstick rape....yeah somehow they are immune to anything and get to keep kushy jobs. Three cheers for mcps and MCEA hip hip HOORAPE!

FYI, administrators don’t belong to MCEA. They have their own union. Believe me, many MCEA members are outraged that the former Damascus principal was handed some made up job on Rockville Pike. She AND Smith have to go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fire the nasty secretaries. Too many people looking for jobs to keep on those that are mean to the community. Step aside and make room for people who are happy to be working in a school.

It's funny, because I'm totally not a fan of MCPS, but one thing I've found myself having to do is schedule stuff with the BOE for public meetings, and everyone I speak to on that end - despite all of the negative things I have to say about the BOE - is always very nice and professional. And they know I'm not a friend of the BOE, but they're nevertheless courteous. So not everyone is awful.

Sorry, I meant at the actual schools.

The school office staff at the middle school where I work comments on what both parents and teachers wear. One secretary called a staff member a whore for wearing something that wasn’t even risqué—maybe just a bit youthful for her age. The principal finally told her to cut it out this year and now she’s more subtle about it, but I think she can’t help herself. She’s a pretty nasty and unhappy person.