I cringe we women bash other women for being ovewhelmed or lazy or unproductive because...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and it there's one thing I've learned through my work it's that everyone has a story and at some point feels at least a little "crazy" and could use some help. Yes, some people are better copers than others; some are more fragile in different ways. So what? Some of us are thinner, more intelligent, and more talented in various ways. People vary in terms of their resilience, and so what? That's not a moral issue. It's just life. Also, even the most optimistic, more resilient, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" sort of person can meet with tragedy or overwhelming challenge in their life. And then what? Should we judge them for it or try to lend a hand up or a sympathetic ear? Which would you rather have, PP?

I just wanted to add something. Yes, it's way easier to have sympathy for someone who tries to make positive changes in their life rather than just complain about things. What I've learned is that there are REASONS people get stuck in self-defeating patterns and don't take what seem like obvious steps to improve their situations. These things that keep people stuck are often unconsiocus fears or beliefs that they've learned from childhood or earlier points in their lives. I know it can be super frustrating to deal with whiners, but if you try to see them as "stuck "and doing the best they can to get "unstuck" it is so much easier to have empathy as opposed to judgement.

Okay, getting off the soapbox now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2) Personally I think the bar is really too low for many women, but I don't push or expect anything of any one else. The recent, OMG I need to go to a hotel to get away from life thread is an example. If you are that burned out from life and your kids than make a change. Now, many people do have challenges in life that are out of their control, but their reaction is within their control and this is where I judge people.

I responded on that thread, but left out what was so stressful. In the prior 2 weeks, I watched a family member die, dealt with my father spiraling out of control in reaction to the death, worried about how his drinking would mix with his chemo, managed kids and the funeral arrangements, all while 7 months pregnant.

That's kind of a fucking downer and "whiny", so I just shared about what a nice experience it was to have a night away.

But, have fun with your judging. It sounds like it makes you very upbeat.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and went through something similar not too long ago. It sucked bad, but I realize that these situations are a part of life and I won't be here forever either. I enjoy it all because I don't know how much time I have left with my loved ones, particularly with my kids and DH. Life is what you make it for most people.

Also not every single one of those posters had a similar situation happen to them which spurred their desire to hibernate for a weekend. Several posted that this was an annual event or they would like it to be. I just find it sad that people want to escape their life instead of enjoying each day.

NP, here. No not every single one, but then again how the hell would you know, douche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2) Personally I think the bar is really too low for many women, but I don't push or expect anything of any one else. The recent, OMG I need to go to a hotel to get away from life thread is an example. If you are that burned out from life and your kids than make a change. Now, many people do have challenges in life that are out of their control, but their reaction is within their control and this is where I judge people.

I responded on that thread, but left out what was so stressful. In the prior 2 weeks, I watched a family member die, dealt with my father spiraling out of control in reaction to the death, worried about how his drinking would mix with his chemo, managed kids and the funeral arrangements, all while 7 months pregnant.

That's kind of a fucking downer and "whiny", so I just shared about what a nice experience it was to have a night away.

But, have fun with your judging. It sounds like it makes you very upbeat.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and went through something similar not too long ago. It sucked bad, but I realize that these situations are a part of life and I won't be here forever either. I enjoy it all because I don't know how much time I have left with my loved ones, particularly with my kids and DH. Life is what you make it for most people.

Also not every single one of those posters had a similar situation happen to them which spurred their desire to hibernate for a weekend. Several posted that this was an annual event or they would like it to be. I just find it sad that people want to escape their life instead of enjoying each day.

On the one hand you say that if life gets you down so much, make a positive change. On the other hand, you criticize people who need a short escape. Does it occur to you that it's frequently hard to identify exactly what is getting you down, or what kind of change you need to make, unless you can step out of your normal routine and gather some perspective?

It did occur to me, but no one mentioned that so I highly doubt that is what they do with their time while in their time-out.

You are exactly what the OP of this thread was talking about.

I am the OP of the "want to go to a hotel by myself for the weekend" thread. Guess what? I am awake because I just spent an hour trying to help my very uncomfortable, teething, 10 month old back to sleep. I love her beyond belief and am happy to be a mom. I don't resent having to wake up at odd hours throughout the night. But it is exhausting at times, even if I am happy to do it (because being a parent is the best, most important thing I've ever done).

I've got to say, you sound like an unpleasant, sanctimonious, total jerk.

Everyone is different, has different strengths and weaknesses, different challenges, different needs. For exampke, I have friends that find it very hard to budget and not overspend. This is definitely not a problem for me, but I don't judge them. When they talk to me about the things in their lives that they have difficulty with, I don't say, "hey, just stop spending! It's easy! Look how EASY it is for me! What's wrong with you?!". While I can't always empathize, I can sympathize with them and support them through what they find difficult. I can be a friend. Most importantly, I don't judge them.

You seem pretty impressed with your ability to deal with life. You seem to think that everyone else has the same brain that you do. Its incredibly lame for you to see virtue in your ability to do things which aren't challenging for you - there is really no virtue in that. Guess what, everyone is different. What feels manageable for you might not be manageable for someone else. Your need for alone time is different from other people's need for alone time. Your need for something else might be greater than most other people. Why judge?

The whole point speaks to exactly what the OP of this thread was saying, which you totally seem to have missed.

I didn’t miss the point of the OP, I simply don’t agree with it. I’m not sure of your point in your whole second paragraph about being up with your teething child. We’ve all been there with babies and I’m glad you’re happy to do it as a parent. No one said you resented anything, but it’s just part of life with a baby. We’ve all done it.

Wow, an unpleasant, sanctimonious jerk! No, I just don’t like being around people who look at their life and complain like there’s nothing they can do to change it. If you have a friend that overspends, than yeah there are real steps that they can take to change their habits. If your friend complains about it and then says I’m really looking for ways to improve than I’d be all over that trying to help them. If they simply complain about it and don’t make an effort to change than I really don’t want to hear it. We all want more than we can afford sometimes. Get over and take a little responsibility for your life.

I’m not impressed with the way I deal with life, I am impressed and inspired by many people IN my life that deal with adversity and challenges with courage and head on. I try to learn from those people and inspire others to make changes they are seeking. I have two friends (that complained about their weight) join a gym with me and I call when I’m going in to encourage them to come with me. They’ve both lost weight. Three people in my office have started going back to their gyms, telling me I help them see that they could fit it into their schedules, and we all swap healthy, family-friendly recipes also. They claim I’ve inspired them to get back into the gym and I tell them they’ve inspired me to eat healthier with their awesome recipes and made cooking skills. I have a sibling, who barely graduated high school, living in a trailer home with her 3 kids and unemployed boyfriend who I have supported off and on. They have both gone back to school, have great jobs now, have pulled themselves out of a financial mess and are raising three wonderful kids. I am in awe of them because they rarely complain, but always look for ways to improve their situation.

I’ve never once judged people on their needs, but rather their actions or inactions. And why do you assume life isn’t just as challenging to me as it is to you, but maybe in different ways? Because I look at life differently than you and react different to my challenges you are judging me. I work hard to maintain an organized, healthy, low-stress, fun life for me and my family while managing a career that I love. Don’t judge me because I’m willing to find positive people and resources to help improve my life where I think it needs improving, work my butt off for it, and to strive to live each day like it’s my last.

Um, yes, you are an unpleasant, sanctimonious jerk. People are allowed to vent and complain, though not to you, apparently. Venting / complaining and taking action aren't mutually exclusive. Try showing some empathy. You're probably not familiar with the word, so Google it.

[Anonymous]

Okay I'll bite. I know women (not many) who take off and leave town every chance they get - under the guise of "business". I know women who put their child in SACC every day of the week. I know women who refuse to be involved with their children during most weekends, and if they are, they will not participate in most activities, certainly not anything "physical" (could be as simple as swimming, for example). I know women who claim to work full time "because their family needs the money" (they don't) and actually have the gaul to try to tell people they work full time, when it is so obvious they do not.

Okay, these are the same people.

And since it is anonymous, and since you brought it up, is this what you are talking about OP?

Surely their husbands could not be too happy.

Everyone I know has their own load to bear. But putting it on others constantly - THAT is another story. Some people need to find a way to deal with *life* - a life that is their responsibility and *no one* else's.

ITA that you should only have as many children as you can handle. That is a start!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2) Personally I think the bar is really too low for many women, but I don't push or expect anything of any one else. The recent, OMG I need to go to a hotel to get away from life thread is an example. If you are that burned out from life and your kids than make a change. Now, many people do have challenges in life that are out of their control, but their reaction is within their control and this is where I judge people.

I responded on that thread, but left out what was so stressful. In the prior 2 weeks, I watched a family member die, dealt with my father spiraling out of control in reaction to the death, worried about how his drinking would mix with his chemo, managed kids and the funeral arrangements, all while 7 months pregnant.

That's kind of a fucking downer and "whiny", so I just shared about what a nice experience it was to have a night away.

But, have fun with your judging. It sounds like it makes you very upbeat.

I'm truly sorry for your loss and went through something similar not too long ago. It sucked bad, but I realize that these situations are a part of life and I won't be here forever either. I enjoy it all because I don't know how much time I have left with my loved ones, particularly with my kids and DH. Life is what you make it for most people.

Also not every single one of those posters had a similar situation happen to them which spurred their desire to hibernate for a weekend. Several posted that this was an annual event or they would like it to be. I just find it sad that people want to escape their life instead of enjoying each day.

On the one hand you say that if life gets you down so much, make a positive change. On the other hand, you criticize people who need a short escape. Does it occur to you that it's frequently hard to identify exactly what is getting you down, or what kind of change you need to make, unless you can step out of your normal routine and gather some perspective?

It did occur to me, but no one mentioned that so I highly doubt that is what they do with their time while in their time-out.

You are exactly what the OP of this thread was talking about.

I am the OP of the "want to go to a hotel by myself for the weekend" thread. Guess what? I am awake because I just spent an hour trying to help my very uncomfortable, teething, 10 month old back to sleep. I love her beyond belief and am happy to be a mom. I don't resent having to wake up at odd hours throughout the night. But it is exhausting at times, even if I am happy to do it (because being a parent is the best, most important thing I've ever done).

I've got to say, you sound like an unpleasant, sanctimonious, total jerk.

Everyone is different, has different strengths and weaknesses, different challenges, different needs. For exampke, I have friends that find it very hard to budget and not overspend. This is definitely not a problem for me, but I don't judge them. When they talk to me about the things in their lives that they have difficulty with, I don't say, "hey, just stop spending! It's easy! Look how EASY it is for me! What's wrong with you?!". While I can't always empathize, I can sympathize with them and support them through what they find difficult. I can be a friend. Most importantly, I don't judge them.

You seem pretty impressed with your ability to deal with life. You seem to think that everyone else has the same brain that you do. Its incredibly lame for you to see virtue in your ability to do things which aren't challenging for you - there is really no virtue in that. Guess what, everyone is different. What feels manageable for you might not be manageable for someone else. Your need for alone time is different from other people's need for alone time. Your need for something else might be greater than most other people. Why judge?

The whole point speaks to exactly what the OP of this thread was saying, which you totally seem to have missed.

I didn’t miss the point of the OP, I simply don’t agree with it. I’m not sure of your point in your whole second paragraph about being up with your teething child. We’ve all been there with babies and I’m glad you’re happy to do it as a parent. No one said you resented anything, but it’s just part of life with a baby. We’ve all done it.

Wow, an unpleasant, sanctimonious jerk! No, I just don’t like being around people who look at their life and complain like there’s nothing they can do to change it. If you have a friend that overspends, than yeah there are real steps that they can take to change their habits. If your friend complains about it and then says I’m really looking for ways to improve than I’d be all over that trying to help them. If they simply complain about it and don’t make an effort to change than I really don’t want to hear it. We all want more than we can afford sometimes. Get over and take a little responsibility for your life.

I’m not impressed with the way I deal with life, I am impressed and inspired by many people IN my life that deal with adversity and challenges with courage and head on. I try to learn from those people and inspire others to make changes they are seeking. I have two friends (that complained about their weight) join a gym with me and I call when I’m going in to encourage them to come with me. They’ve both lost weight. Three people in my office have started going back to their gyms, telling me I help them see that they could fit it into their schedules, and we all swap healthy, family-friendly recipes also. They claim I’ve inspired them to get back into the gym and I tell them they’ve inspired me to eat healthier with their awesome recipes and made cooking skills. I have a sibling, who barely graduated high school, living in a trailer home with her 3 kids and unemployed boyfriend who I have supported off and on. They have both gone back to school, have great jobs now, have pulled themselves out of a financial mess and are raising three wonderful kids. I am in awe of them because they rarely complain, but always look for ways to improve their situation.

I’ve never once judged people on their needs, but rather their actions or inactions. And why do you assume life isn’t just as challenging to me as it is to you, but maybe in different ways? Because I look at life differently than you and react different to my challenges you are judging me. I work hard to maintain an organized, healthy, low-stress, fun life for me and my family while managing a career that I love. Don’t judge me because I’m willing to find positive people and resources to help improve my life where I think it needs improving, work my butt off for it, and to strive to live each day like it’s my last.

My point about being up with my teething child was simply to say that even if I'm exhausted and going through one of the tougher stages of parenting, it does not equate with me being a miserable, unhappy, negative person that sits around complaining.

I identified a way to have my needs met, recharge and refresh, and you called my solution of spending a weekend of solitude in a hotel as "sad". So, only the ways that you choose to deal with challenges are valid? Only your method of living positively counts? Your definition of living positively seems rigid and narrow to me. And yes, in everything you've said, most of the time you have been either patting yourself on the back for how superior your powers to cope are OR voicing your disdain, derision, and scorn for the people you've observed in life that don't do things the way you would. From everything you've said here, you really do seem like a very judgmental, nasty, and unpleasant person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and it there's one thing I've learned through my work it's that everyone has a story and at some point feels at least a little "crazy" and could use some help. Yes, some people are better copers than others; some are more fragile in different ways. So what? Some of us are thinner, more intelligent, and more talented in various ways. People vary in terms of their resilience, and so what? That's not a moral issue. It's just life. Also, even the most optimistic, more resilient, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" sort of person can meet with tragedy or overwhelming challenge in their life. And then what? Should we judge them for it or try to lend a hand up or a sympathetic ear? Which would you rather have, PP?

I just wanted to add something. Yes, it's way easier to have sympathy for someone who tries to make positive changes in their life rather than just complain about things. What I've learned is that there are REASONS people get stuck in self-defeating patterns and don't take what seem like obvious steps to improve their situations. These things that keep people stuck are often unconsiocus fears or beliefs that they've learned from childhood or earlier points in their lives. I know it can be super frustrating to deal with whiners, but if you try to see them as "stuck "and doing the best they can to get "unstuck" it is so much easier to have empathy as opposed to judgement.

Okay, getting off the soapbox now.

Thank you, therapist PP, for your input. I hope some of the people on this thread can take your words to heart.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing: There are an awful lot of people around here that assume the next guy has it SO easy - so (naturally) they (somehow) "deserve" to have it "so easy" too! And their next step is usually to try to knock the next guy down a few pegs (never happens, but they think they feel better for trying) AND/OR keep comparing themselves to the next guy (actually their made up version of the next guy, that is mostly no where near the truth) AND/OR never learn to make it on their own.

I have a neighbor like this. She HATES the tall, thin, bubbly, accomplished beauty next door to us, but is so very clueless that the "perfect" neighbor doesn't know she exists! No one sees the issue here?

Really, there are some people that are so lazy, you wonder how they tie their own shoes every day. Then they resent others for having tied shoes! Really?

As a therapist, you should be trying to explain the big picture. That there are different personalities and some are more helpless than others. Often that is where therapists come in, because often, depression looms as either as a cause or as an effect.

Some people can't be bothered to change. Some people are too lazy to do for themselves. If they made bad decisions in their life, it is no one else's responsibility but their own. Do you actually let them go through their lives making more and more excuses for themselves? Or teaching them how to do for themselves for a change? Because the latter would make all of the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, male or female, with neurological or mental issues should not be having children.

Okay moron, that's almost the entire population

The mental issues, obviously, apply to you.

Hahaha! This thread is awesome! Everybody taking everything so personally on an anonymous forum. Clllllaaaassssiiiiic DCUM.

+1

I recently took a month's vacation from DCUM, so I don't feel like any of these opinions have anything particularly to do with me. I mean, I rather suspect the other neighborhood SAHMs judge me for not doing as much as they do and for allowing/needing so much of my husband's help. But they don't know that I struggled with major depressive disorder, PTSD, psychosis, and, now that I have been able to find successful treatment, the leftover personal habits that I developed when I was really suffering. I do what I can. And I try to remember that sometimes other people let their masks drop and it's easy to see if you're looking that they're struggling, too.

Ah, DCUM, you didn't even know I was gone, but I missed ya.

[Anonymous]

Not everyone who is helpless is troubled or depressed or otherwise mentally debilitated. Some people are just plain lazy and never really had to do things for themselves. Not everything has a big complex answer to it. Sometimes the answer really is in front of your face - no mask, no drama.

[Anonymous]

20:09, are you now actually telling the therapist how to do his or her job? AND claiming that you can tell who has a real justification for their struggles and who is just lazy? Wow, you must be omniscient.

So what do you think of my personal story, really, please tell me, I'm dying to know.

[Anonymous]

I don't judge people for being overwhelmed unless they're holding themselves to ridiculously high standards and then I might think maybe they're too concerned about what other people think and should get in touch with what they really want. But unless I think that observation will do any good, I keep it to myself. I do judge people for being unproductive or lazy, but again, most of the time, I keep that observation to myself. I'm one of those naturally high-energy people, but I too have my lazy, unproductive or overwhelmed days.

I do find complainers really annoying when they never do anything to fix something that is (or seems) fixable. And I will generally offer suggestions when the complaining becomes annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1.) It throws "sisterhood" out the window and replaces it with "mean girls."

2.) It's another example of women pushing other women to meet what is for some unreasonable expectations.
(I am convinced the anorexia and bulimia epidemic would be reduced if we stopped worshipping extreme thinness, praising people for being too thin and gossiping about those who gain too much weight. I don't think there are that many men attracted to the pre-pubescent male look in females.

3.) It shows a lack of awareness that people face different challenges than we do?
There are people with severe autoimmune disorders among us and people going through cancer treatment who haven't told you. There are plenty of people struggling with varying degrees of mental illness. There are people who seem to end up always the caregiver in their immediate and extended families and never the care receiver and they are burn out. There are people struggling in bad marriages that haven't told you. There are people with kids struggling with neurological illnesses and mental illness and physical illness. People do what they can handle. Just because one woman needs more rest than you do, or gets less done in a day, doesn't mean she has less value than you do.

1) Not sure what this even means. "sisterhood"? I have friends, some old-dear-close friends, some local work-out buddies, trade babysitting, go out with friends. But I'm not sure what sisterhood is or what that should mean to me. I like PEOPLE who are positive, work hard, don't complain, realize we only have one life to live, and provide something positive to my life.

2) Personally I think the bar is really too low for many women, but I don't push or expect anything of any one else. The recent, OMG I need to go to a hotel to get away from life thread is an example. If you are that burned out from life and your kids than make a change. Now, many people do have challenges in life that are out of their control, but their reaction is within their control and this is where I judge people.

3) I disagree that people do what they can handle. MANY people don't do all that they can handle or complain about it the whole time!!

Well you sound like a peach.

Thanks, I am actually quite friendly, but I do have a positive attitude when it comes to living life and I won't be brought down by those who are complainers. A lot of people like to complain about circumstances that they DO have control over. I understand that many people are struggling with issues, but most people have issues they are dealing with if you ask. Life goes on and it's all about your attitude. There are extreme situations but that's not the case for most.

If you complain about being fat and tired while holding a 64oz big gulp in your hand filled with coke I'm not really feeling bad for you. If your house is mess and you're complaining about how hard it is to keep up after telling me about your favorite tv show then you need to prioritize. If your kids and life really stress you out that bad then make some changes. Many of us have ways to make changes, work smarter not harder, but don't and just complain about it.

Wow. not a peach, a peach blossom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the woman that bash others for being lazy are either

1. Miserable and exhausted. Have convinced themselves there is no other choice, and resent the hell out of anyone NOT willing to run themselves into the ground. The worse offenders in my life were women who had babies about 15 to 20 years ago - when they had to prove to the world that they career came first and then their babies. It had to suck to be them, but they tend to have a chip on their shoulder that everyone should suffer as they did.

2. Are in denial about how easy their lives are. They have housecleaners, husbands that come home at 6, cook dinner and put the kids to bed, and grandmas who live a block away. Just as an example, the woman who claims she has to do "everything" around the house, mentions her maid just left and her husband is doing the yard work.

I bashed people in my mind for being lazy when I was in my 20s. When I got older, I started to realize that people are born with all sorts of different levels of energy and ambition. Many people do not set high personal standards or goals for themselves. I'm thinking of one friend who doesn't work and whose house is always a mess and who doesn't exercise regularly. She is FINE with her life, and she wouldn't think to compare herself to me. She's not threatened by my much higher energy and ambition, and I love that I can relax when I'm with her. When I want to do and get more out of like, I hang out with different friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist, and it there's one thing I've learned through my work it's that everyone has a story and at some point feels at least a little "crazy" and could use some help. Yes, some people are better copers than others; some are more fragile in different ways. So what? Some of us are thinner, more intelligent, and more talented in various ways. People vary in terms of their resilience, and so what? That's not a moral issue. It's just life. Also, even the most optimistic, more resilient, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" sort of person can meet with tragedy or overwhelming challenge in their life. And then what? Should we judge them for it or try to lend a hand up or a sympathetic ear? Which would you rather have, PP?

i do think resilience is a moral issue.

[Anonymous]

Resilience is a moral issue!?!?

That's another DCUM gem.