parents constantly giving low-performing siblings money, but not us bc we don't "need" it

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pps who are encouraging people to reject expensive gifts that come with strings attached.

When I was in grad school, I once told my mom that I might not have a phone once I moved into my own apartment (pre-internet, cell phone days) in order to save money. She freaked and started sending me $100 a month to ensure that I would get a phone. Eventually I realized that I felt like my folks were putting me through grad school, when the reality was that I paid for everything myself with my assistantship. Mom was using that sense of obligation to control me. I finally told mom to stop sending me that $100 a month - and if she wanted to help me later with a donation towards student loans, that would be great. Mom did not like me rejecting her gift but she accepted it. Our relationship got better. I started seeing that I was taking care of myself.

Not anything like rejecting a Mercedes or an expensive vacation, especially when you have kids - I understand that. But the dynamics are similar in that my mom used money to control others. She fretted over her children who were having a hard time and worried that we would never get it together but as long as it looked like we were failures, that meant we would need her and her money and not abandon her.

I hope before she died that she realized that she didn't need to make me dependent on her in order to keep my affection. I loved her anyway and was always there for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in my family's situation, the most frustrating thing is that the sibling in question continues to make bad decision after bad decision. It would be one thing if he had just fallen on hard times and was struggling because of it (like the sister above with the abusive husband), but he can't make a good decision to save his life. So, more shit just keeps getting thrown on. I honestly think he's been depressed and self-destructive for years, but no one has the balls to intervene, so it just keeps getting worse. And my husband was within weeks of confronting him about why the hell he hadn't moved out of mom and dad's house when we found out he had knocked up some teenager - great, adding a baby makes life easier, right? So, the heart-to-heart we had spent months discussing in our household never happened. And now? Yeah, 2 kids later, there is nothing that can be done - they've all made their beds. My ILs make noise about making him act responsibly, but they never follow up for fear of driving him away. The chance at tough love went out the window as soon as those kids came along. Although we still encourage them to watch their son closely for possible drug use, because we suspect that is happening along with heavy drinking. I wish my IL's would kick his butt out and take control of the kids themselves, because they are the only steady force in their lives.

It really isn't about money for us. We'd rather they not even give us any, knowing what is happening behind the scenes. It's more about responsibility.

OP again. These types of posts are nailing it - I am happy for the people who have a bad decision or some bad luck and have their parents to help get them back to baseline. The people who had a surprise job loss or the sister who married someone young who was an abuser. What bothers me about my one brother in particular is the continued bad decisions - one after another after another until there's no way he could even survive without my parents. That's what's most irritating me.

[Anonymous]

And thanks, PP (the vacation poster) for explaining (and for not getting defensive - I really just want to understand and situations are so much more nuanced than you can describe in one post). I think that makes more sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, I haven't see anyone mention this yet, but do you know your parents' overall financial situation, especially concerning their retirement plans and savings? It might be worth it to have a heart-to-heart discussion with them to make sure that they aren't compromising their long-term situation with all the money they give to your siblings. Because it seems pretty obvious that if your parents fall on hard times as they age (especially if there are medical issues), that you and your DH will be the ones to shoulder the burden physically and financially. What are the odds that your siblings would step up and take responsibility for them? If you feel resentful now, imagine how you'll feel when you have to spend a huge chunk of change taking care of your parents, after they more or less gave away all their money to your siblings.

[Anonymous]

12:13 made the point I was going to make, except in my case it's actually my stepchild. It can be very frustrating to work hard, be raised with an expectation that you leave the nest, and then have someone essentially have control over your purse strings. Why? Because as a PP said, most of us wouldn't let a family member end up homeless in a shelter.

I have no problems with short-term help to a family member in trouble. What I find frustrating, and I can empathize with OP, is family members who continue to make poor choices and therefore are dependent on you or another relative to keep them afloat. I love my stepchild, but am very frustrated that he continues to live beyond his means and we continue to have to send him money. I don't want him to be homeless and neither does his father, but I also am not thrilled with the idea of supporting him forever. And, there is no end in sight, so forever is not an unreasonable expectation.

Everyone says that money comes with strings, but sometimes those strings pull from the other side. If an individual knows that they won't be allowed to fail, they may apologize for sticking their hand out asking for cash, but they count on receiving it.

OP, I don't know what to tell you but I empathize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I haven't see anyone mention this yet, but do you know your parents' overall financial situation, especially concerning their retirement plans and savings? It might be worth it to have a heart-to-heart discussion with them to make sure that they aren't compromising their long-term situation with all the money they give to your siblings. Because it seems pretty obvious that if your parents fall on hard times as they age (especially if there are medical issues), that you and your DH will be the ones to shoulder the burden physically and financially. What are the odds that your siblings would step up and take responsibility for them? If you feel resentful now, imagine how you'll feel when you have to spend a huge chunk of change taking care of your parents, after they more or less gave away all their money to your siblings.

I'm the bad-decision-BIL poster - THIS is something we are really concerned about. My FIL lost his job last year, and they were already blowing through savings supporting 4 extra people in their house. At some point (before the job loss), they did tell the baby momma to at least go apply for food stamps and get the kids on WIC/Medicaid. At that point, my husband wanted to start sending them money. Umm, no - we're not screwing up our finances because no one in that house can make a good decision. I really am scared at some point, we are going to be "expected" to contribute. It just makes me angry that NONE of this was due to a hardship - it was all due to stupidity. I don't feel like I should have to contribute to enabling of bad choices.

The one thing we did do is make sure out will was very specific about his brother never getting his hands on our money should we pass together. That money is going into a trust for those poor kids who never asked to be born into this mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the pps who are encouraging people to reject expensive gifts that come with strings attached.

When I was in grad school, I once told my mom that I might not have a phone once I moved into my own apartment (pre-internet, cell phone days) in order to save money. She freaked and started sending me $100 a month to ensure that I would get a phone. Eventually I realized that I felt like my folks were putting me through grad school, when the reality was that I paid for everything myself with my assistantship. Mom was using that sense of obligation to control me. I finally told mom to stop sending me that $100 a month - and if she wanted to help me later with a donation towards student loans, that would be great. Mom did not like me rejecting her gift but she accepted it. Our relationship got better. I started seeing that I was taking care of myself.

Not anything like rejecting a Mercedes or an expensive vacation, especially when you have kids - I understand that. But the dynamics are similar in that my mom used money to control others. She fretted over her children who were having a hard time and worried that we would never get it together but as long as it looked like we were failures, that meant we would need her and her money and not abandon her.

I hope before she died that she realized that she didn't need to make me dependent on her in order to keep my affection. I loved her anyway and was always there for her.

As a mother, I would probably freak a little too if my child didn't have a phone-- Most importantly, for safety's sake. I'd want my child to be able to call 911. But, I'd also want to be able to reach my child if needed (or desired). What if there were a family emergency? i.e. Dad was in the hospital. Or I just wanted to check in occasionally and see how they were. I'd want my child's friends to be able to call and invite them over for an impromptu social gathering. After all, there is plenty of research showing how health and longevity is greatly enhance by strong social ties.

I guess what I'm saying is that on its own, the phone thing is not controlling but pretty benign. Was it part of a larger pattern that makes you think it was used to control you?

[Anonymous]

OP, from the number of replies you can see that many of us are in the same boat. My husband and I each have a "failure to launch" sibling receiving heavy support.

You mention the repeated bad decisions. Our sibs are the same way. However I am fairly certain that, at least with my sister, there is undiagnosed and untreated mental illness at play on top of enabling, and that helps me see the situation with more compassion.

That said, I almost clocked her when she started lecturing me about opting out of the US corporate machine and her superior work-life balance. Sure, we could work 10 hour weeks and quit jobs left and right to travel the world too, if rent, health insurance, and travel were fully funded. She has cut my parents off many times with long periods of no contact and changes of address, etc. They are afraid they will lose her completely by putting a foot down. So it continues. I don't feel resentful, just sad that she is always searching and hasn't been able to find peace.
We have talked to both sets of parents about estate planning because we are concerned that siblings will turn to us when our parents pass (and we earn well under average for this area, under 100K, so not in a position to provide financial assistance). It is stressful.

[Anonymous]

I sympathize with you OP and I agree with the statement (written by a PP) that there seems to be a "strong desire to be treated equally as your siblings" that extends through adulthood.

My brother was also VERY slow to launch. Married a woman who was a huge spender. My parents bailed them out time and time and time again. They'd give them money for a car while meanwhile my SIL would show up with extravagant gifts for everyone bought at Nordstrom. My dad always gave them money when we said goodbye at the end of a gathering. He'd hug me and I'd go on my way. He'd hug my brother and slip him $200. It frustrated me to no end that my parents (who were living frugally themselves) were bailing out this craziness (for years). And of course, I had the opposite life path: college, went to graduate school while working full time to pay for it, married a stable earner, saved religiously for years for a house downpayment. etc.

The end result was that my brother's marriage ended (in spectacular fashion) and he went on to medical school (after a good decade of doing nothing. Nothing). He finished residency last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, from the number of replies you can see that many of us are in the same boat. My husband and I each have a "failure to launch" sibling receiving heavy support.

You mention the repeated bad decisions. Our sibs are the same way. However I am fairly certain that, at least with my sister, there is undiagnosed and untreated mental illness at play on top of enabling, and that helps me see the situation with more compassion.

That said, I almost clocked her when she started lecturing me about opting out of the US corporate machine and her superior work-life balance. Sure, we could work 10 hour weeks and quit jobs left and right to travel the world too, if rent, health insurance, and travel were fully funded. She has cut my parents off many times with long periods of no contact and changes of address, etc. They are afraid they will lose her completely by putting a foot down. So it continues. I don't feel resentful, just sad that she is always searching and hasn't been able to find peace.
We have talked to both sets of parents about estate planning because we are concerned that siblings will turn to us when our parents pass (and we earn well under average for this area, under 100K, so not in a position to provide financial assistance). It is stressful.

Ah, PP - you're a better person than I am. I can't believe you were able to hold back from losing your sh*t at that lecture! The estate planning stuff is a really good idea. I have zero idea of how my parent's will is or anything, but I know I'm their executor.

[Anonymous]

10:45- Have you and DH ever considered asking his parents to help pay for childcare so your husband can get a job instead of spending money buying you a luxury car and vacations? I would think it would help everyone feel better about the situation. Your kids won't need childcare forever, so this way, one day you wouldn't need IL's help anymore.

[Anonymous]

OP, from your tone and your descriptions, it sounds like you're really (mostly) only upset about the money and financial implications that flow from the disparity. Your parents seem to love you as much as-- and probably respect you more than-- your brothers. You're the winner here.

If you have frequented DCUM for long, then you've surely seen many, many threads about parents who favor their children/grandchildren in ways that suggest they do love them differently. (i.e. attending school events for one child but not the other, etc.) Those are so heartbreaking to read. At worst, your parents have enabled potentially cripplingly dependent behavior by your brothers. It also sounds, though, like a lot of what they've done is enable your family to be together/do things together that couldn't happen without their help.

In a perfect world, your brothers would be successful and you all would dine/vacation/etc. together on equal financial footing. That the financial disparity has not so far created the bitter resentment seen on so many posts here suggests that your parents have been very good about assuring you, their successful child, how much love and pride they have in you. I would tuck that certainty into your heart.

[Anonymous]

My father has fed my brother's business as a client for years. Doesn't need the services, but was his first client back when he started this modest business and so has continued to send a couple grand each month for the last 15 years. He also gave a deposit for a house, twice. And, co-signed on loans that my brother never would have been able to get otherwise.

I wouldn't have a single problem with any of this if it weren't for the amazing amount of judgment that came my way when my parents helped me get through grad school when my husband left me alone with two under two.

My brother never acknowledges the help he got and degrades the time-limited support I got until I graduated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the pps who are encouraging people to reject expensive gifts that come with strings attached.

When I was in grad school, I once told my mom that I might not have a phone once I moved into my own apartment (pre-internet, cell phone days) in order to save money. She freaked and started sending me $100 a month to ensure that I would get a phone. Eventually I realized that I felt like my folks were putting me through grad school, when the reality was that I paid for everything myself with my assistantship. Mom was using that sense of obligation to control me. I finally told mom to stop sending me that $100 a month - and if she wanted to help me later with a donation towards student loans, that would be great. Mom did not like me rejecting her gift but she accepted it. Our relationship got better. I started seeing that I was taking care of myself.

Not anything like rejecting a Mercedes or an expensive vacation, especially when you have kids - I understand that. But the dynamics are similar in that my mom used money to control others. She fretted over her children who were having a hard time and worried that we would never get it together but as long as it looked like we were failures, that meant we would need her and her money and not abandon her.

I hope before she died that she realized that she didn't need to make me dependent on her in order to keep my affection. I loved her anyway and was always there for her.

As a mother, I would probably freak a little too if my child didn't have a phone-- Most importantly, for safety's sake. I'd want my child to be able to call 911. But, I'd also want to be able to reach my child if needed (or desired). What if there were a family emergency? i.e. Dad was in the hospital. Or I just wanted to check in occasionally and see how they were. I'd want my child's friends to be able to call and invite them over for an impromptu social gathering. After all, there is plenty of research showing how health and longevity is greatly enhance by strong social ties.

I guess what I'm saying is that on its own, the phone thing is not controlling but pretty benign. Was it part of a larger pattern that makes you think it was used to control you?

Oh yes, it was part of a larger pattern. I understand worrying about a child not having a phone - even if she's 28-years-old as I was at the time - but there were other things going on over the years. Now that I have an 18-year-old I understand her anxiety better but she always saw it as having to rescue us rather than letting us learn how to deal with difficulty on our own. Part of the growing up process is learning how to cope with difficulty. Whenever I am tempted to rescue my child, I remind myself that this isn't the first time she has had to face challenges and it won't be the last and she'll be better prepared for life if I don't rush in to solve all her problems with money.

[Anonymous]

The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. It's annoying as all hell.