Invasion of Venezuela thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

That is laughable. Exxon was took 1.5 million barrels oil a day from 1950-1975. Do you just make up these number? What people are clamoring for Venezuela 17 year oil assets?

Under international law any country can nationalize its resources. The country only has to pay fair market value for the assets. Venezuela nationalized heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt in 2007. ExxonMobil took Venezuela to international arbitration (ICSID, ICC) seeking compensation.

ExxonMobil's heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt was valued by Exxon at 5 billion in 2006. Exxon claimed a fair market value of 10 billion. In 2014 ICSID awarded ExxonMobil $1.6 billion for the expropriated assets. Venezuela argued the amount was less than sought to reduce to claim. To date Venezuela has paid over $1 billion to ExxonMobil. Not even close to 150 billion!

Here is why Exxon and the Texas oil men are so bitter. In 2008 The state-owned oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), produced 3.2 million barrels per day (bpd). Including liquefied natural gas, the company claimed a total daily production average of 3.42 million barrels. In Jan 2008 oil was $90 a barrel by July $147 a barrel. Oil crashed to $40 by Dec but the average price was $98 a barrel. Venezuela oil production cost are $8-$10 a barrel.

Now do you think Exxon will be invited back into Venezuela?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

It is MUCH more than Exxon. There are dozens of companies that got screwed out of their property. Here's a partial list.

Oil and Energy SectorExxonMobil (U.S.): Assets in Orinoco Belt heavy oil projects expropriated in 2007 after refusing majority state control.
ConocoPhillips (U.S.): Major investments in Petrozuata, Hamaca, and Corocoro projects seized in 2007; awarded ~$8.7 billion in compensation via arbitration.
Helmerich & Payne (U.S.): 11 oil rigs seized in 2010.
Williams Companies (U.S.): Gas injection project taken in 2009.
AES Corp (U.S.): Stake in Electricidad de Caracas (largest private power producer) nationalized in 2007.
Other foreign operators (e.g., Total, BP, Statoil, Chevron) were forced into minority roles or exited.

Steel and Mining
Sidor (owned by Ternium, Luxembourg/Argentina): Venezuela's largest steel producer nationalized in 2008–2009.
Gold mining companies (e.g., Rusoro Mining, Canada/Russia): Operations nationalized in 2011.

Agriculture and Food
Vestey Foods (British): ~494,000 acres of land seized in 2010 as part of land reform.
Cargill (U.S.): Rice processing plants expropriated in 2009.
Agroislena: Major agricultural supply company nationalized in 2010.

Coffee corporations:
Cafe Madrid and Fama de America nationalized.
Various sugar plants and supermarkets (e.g., Exito chain).

Fertilizer and Chemicals
Fertinitro (partially owned by Koch Industries, U.S.): World's major nitrogen fertilizer producer nationalized in 2010.

Cement
Multiple foreign cement companies (e.g., subsidiaries of Cemex, Holcim, Lafarge) nationalized in 2008.Banking and TelecommunicationsBanco de Venezuela (owned by Santander, Spain): Purchased/nationalized in 2008.
CANTV (telecommunications, stake owned by Verizon, U.S.): Nationalized in 2007.

Other Sectors
Conferry (ferry/shipping): Largest commercial shipping company nationalized in 2011.
Owens-Illinois (U.S.): Glass manufacturing facilities expropriated.
Hilton (hotel operations in Caracas): License revoked and property taken in 2007 (renamed Alba Hotel).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

That is laughable. Exxon was took 1.5 million barrels oil a day from 1950-1975. Do you just make up these number? What people are clamoring for Venezuela 17 year oil assets?

Under international law any country can nationalize its resources. The country only has to pay fair market value for the assets. Venezuela nationalized heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt in 2007. ExxonMobil took Venezuela to international arbitration (ICSID, ICC) seeking compensation.

ExxonMobil's heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt was valued by Exxon at 5 billion in 2006. Exxon claimed a fair market value of 10 billion. In 2014 ICSID awarded ExxonMobil $1.6 billion for the expropriated assets. Venezuela argued the amount was less than sought to reduce to claim. To date Venezuela has paid over $1 billion to ExxonMobil. Not even close to 150 billion!

Here is why Exxon and the Texas oil men are so bitter. In 2008 The state-owned oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), produced 3.2 million barrels per day (bpd). Including liquefied natural gas, the company claimed a total daily production average of 3.42 million barrels. In Jan 2008 oil was $90 a barrel by July $147 a barrel. Oil crashed to $40 by Dec but the average price was $98 a barrel. Venezuela oil production cost are $8-$10 a barrel.

Now do you think Exxon will be invited back into Venezuela?

It wasn't just Exxon you idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

It is MUCH more than Exxon. There are dozens of companies that got screwed out of their property. Here's a partial list.

Oil and Energy SectorExxonMobil (U.S.): Assets in Orinoco Belt heavy oil projects expropriated in 2007 after refusing majority state control.
ConocoPhillips (U.S.): Major investments in Petrozuata, Hamaca, and Corocoro projects seized in 2007; awarded ~$8.7 billion in compensation via arbitration.
Helmerich & Payne (U.S.): 11 oil rigs seized in 2010.
Williams Companies (U.S.): Gas injection project taken in 2009.
AES Corp (U.S.): Stake in Electricidad de Caracas (largest private power producer) nationalized in 2007.
Other foreign operators (e.g., Total, BP, Statoil, Chevron) were forced into minority roles or exited.

Steel and Mining
Sidor (owned by Ternium, Luxembourg/Argentina): Venezuela's largest steel producer nationalized in 2008–2009.
Gold mining companies (e.g., Rusoro Mining, Canada/Russia): Operations nationalized in 2011.

Agriculture and Food
Vestey Foods (British): ~494,000 acres of land seized in 2010 as part of land reform.
Cargill (U.S.): Rice processing plants expropriated in 2009.
Agroislena: Major agricultural supply company nationalized in 2010.

Coffee corporations:
Cafe Madrid and Fama de America nationalized.
Various sugar plants and supermarkets (e.g., Exito chain).

Fertilizer and Chemicals
Fertinitro (partially owned by Koch Industries, U.S.): World's major nitrogen fertilizer producer nationalized in 2010.

Cement
Multiple foreign cement companies (e.g., subsidiaries of Cemex, Holcim, Lafarge) nationalized in 2008.Banking and TelecommunicationsBanco de Venezuela (owned by Santander, Spain): Purchased/nationalized in 2008.
CANTV (telecommunications, stake owned by Verizon, U.S.): Nationalized in 2007.

Other Sectors
Conferry (ferry/shipping): Largest commercial shipping company nationalized in 2011.
Owens-Illinois (U.S.): Glass manufacturing facilities expropriated.
Hilton (hotel operations in Caracas): License revoked and property taken in 2007 (renamed Alba Hotel).

Ok, so? Then they can sue and get compensation. A bunch of these companies aren't even American. Why should American soldiers be put in harms way for this? Why should US taxpayers have to pay billions for a military operation?

[Anonymous]

The major international oil companies want in on Venezuela because the world has reached peak oil demand. This means oil surpluses and falling prices.

Venezuela has low production cost($8-$12 a barrel).
The US is a high cost oil producer. Fracking cost $70-$100 a barrel. If oil is headed to $30-$40 a barrel or lower oil over the next 5 years companies need to find low cost production to make money.

Oil prices in the last five days has fallen by 3.71%. This is with Russian(3rd largest producer) production severely cut and Trump announcing an oil blockade of Venezuela(18th largest producer).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

It is MUCH more than Exxon. There are dozens of companies that got screwed out of their property. Here's a partial list.

Oil and Energy SectorExxonMobil (U.S.): Assets in Orinoco Belt heavy oil projects expropriated in 2007 after refusing majority state control.
ConocoPhillips (U.S.): Major investments in Petrozuata, Hamaca, and Corocoro projects seized in 2007; awarded ~$8.7 billion in compensation via arbitration.
Helmerich & Payne (U.S.): 11 oil rigs seized in 2010.
Williams Companies (U.S.): Gas injection project taken in 2009.
AES Corp (U.S.): Stake in Electricidad de Caracas (largest private power producer) nationalized in 2007.
Other foreign operators (e.g., Total, BP, Statoil, Chevron) were forced into minority roles or exited.

Steel and Mining
Sidor (owned by Ternium, Luxembourg/Argentina): Venezuela's largest steel producer nationalized in 2008–2009.
Gold mining companies (e.g., Rusoro Mining, Canada/Russia): Operations nationalized in 2011.

Agriculture and Food
Vestey Foods (British): ~494,000 acres of land seized in 2010 as part of land reform.
Cargill (U.S.): Rice processing plants expropriated in 2009.
Agroislena: Major agricultural supply company nationalized in 2010.

Coffee corporations:
Cafe Madrid and Fama de America nationalized.
Various sugar plants and supermarkets (e.g., Exito chain).

Fertilizer and Chemicals
Fertinitro (partially owned by Koch Industries, U.S.): World's major nitrogen fertilizer producer nationalized in 2010.

Cement
Multiple foreign cement companies (e.g., subsidiaries of Cemex, Holcim, Lafarge) nationalized in 2008.Banking and TelecommunicationsBanco de Venezuela (owned by Santander, Spain): Purchased/nationalized in 2008.
CANTV (telecommunications, stake owned by Verizon, U.S.): Nationalized in 2007.

Other Sectors
Conferry (ferry/shipping): Largest commercial shipping company nationalized in 2011.
Owens-Illinois (U.S.): Glass manufacturing facilities expropriated.
Hilton (hotel operations in Caracas): License revoked and property taken in 2007 (renamed Alba Hotel).

What is your point? It is their right under international law. Under international law, a country has complete authority and jurisdiction over its natural resources and all assets within its borders. The ability to nationalize an industry is an exercise of this sovereign power.

So you want to invade a country to restore corporations assets that have already been compensated over 15 years ago? Who is going to compensate the US government for this seize of national assets? Who is going to pay fair market value to the people of Venezuela? The US is currently burning over $18 million a day on this operation.

You make no sense.

[Anonymous]

The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Yeah. These dolts don't understand how inaccessible many of these oil fields are and how a protracted guerrilla war in those areas will drain American resources and cause the entire region to destabilize.

[Anonymous]

"Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest Armada ever assembled in the History of South America."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Yeah. These dolts don't understand how inaccessible many of these oil fields are and how a protracted guerrilla war in those areas will drain American resources and cause the entire region to destabilize.

They don't even think there would be a guerrilla war. They think we'll be greeted as liberators. It's the same dumb thought process that got us into Iraq. Just because the people hate the dictator doesn't mean they love us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Trump is going to invade Venezuela. What is your prediction on the invasion date and size of forces?

I predict it will be Dec 25th and 18th airborne corps, 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit and USSOCOM. Caracas sits in a valley with steep mountains separating it from the Caribbean coast. The only access is by tunnels to the coast. If the tunnels are destroyed the population in Caracas will have a hard time getting food.

Venezuela is twice the size of Iraq with a population of 30 million(Iraq 45 million).

It’s coming. You can not keep the fleet deployed indefinitely in the Caribbean. What are your predictions?

\

Wait a minute I thought Kamala and Joe were going to start a war....MAGA are such imbeciles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest Armada ever assembled in the History of South America."

Isn't a blockade an official act of war?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Yeah. These dolts don't understand how inaccessible many of these oil fields are and how a protracted guerrilla war in those areas will drain American resources and cause the entire region to destabilize.

Wait I thought we were fighting fentanyl imports to the US by blowing fisherman, stopping funding to ant cocaine growing intervention,in Columbia and committing war crimes that stop five eyes intelligence sharing?