Help me learn what to think during major tantrums

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

OP here. I am having a little trouble keeping up with this thread while at work, didn't expect it to explode this much.

To be clear, she was evaluated and she does not have ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or anything else that has a label.

This is not at all surprising to me after having read a ton, talked to her teachers, and multiple medical professionals, as well as a few parents whose kids do have these diagnoses. But we spent the money to get an official confirmation.

In some ways, a diagnosis would be easier.

I am not sure why so many internet strangers are so confident that they know my child better than literally multiple medical professionals, therapists, teachers, and relatives. I didn't even go into detail about it in the OP because I was asking about healthy scripts for me during tantrums, not why she is the way she is or how to parent.

You are very likely right op but there’s definitely a possibility the consensus will change over time. I’ve seen that happen MANY times. At that age, a lot of what professionals are relying on is a parents interpretation of behavior and as the child is in the real world with out mom or grandma and grandpa more, sometimes both the kid and family start getting more feedback that the child’s behavior is well outside the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Thank you kind PP for this. Honestly, I've posted here a lot with different issues, and always found it helpful even despite the inevitable mean comments in each thread. BUT this is the first time where the vast majority of comments are ignoring my actual question.

I have plenty of strategies for how to handle my kid. My problem is that, like you very presciently wrote, I was hit and screamed at throughout my entire childhood, and my child's behavior hugely triggers me. When I get triggered, I have trouble applying the strategies and not doing the same thing my parents did.

I have worked so hard for so long on this, I am very clear on what NOT to do, but I just am struggling to find the right words to replace that catastrophizing/shaming narrative. Thanks to those of you who shared gave me ideas. I will try them and see what works.

[Anonymous]

Try a CBT workbook or, ideally, CBT with a good therapist. This is exactly what it is for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Except that you're not a psychologist, PP. What you see in your classrooms is undiagnosed kids coming through, along with the ones whose behavior will naturally resolve. At that age it's nearly impossible for a layperson to differentiate who is going to end up with diagnosis. Only a seasoned developmental ped or psychologist can do that. My kid with severe inattentive ADHD was given a tentative diagnosis at 6, and a confirmation of the diagnosis at 10.

So instead of saying "it's not uncommon, relax", you need to say "keep an eye on it, if it doesn't resolve, you need to have your kid evaluated". Especially if the parent tells you that they are like this too, and one of the parent was like this too. Mental health issues are coded in one's genes and are therefore potentially inheritable.

- geneticist.

Ex-HS teacher here and I agree with this. To be fair, PP acknowledged that it's possible OP's DD needs an eval. But teachers don't have enough training or information about the students to make the call, even though many try to.

I used to wish we could go back to our feeder elementary schools later on, to let the teachers know which students' issues had naturally resolved vs. ending up with a diagnosis and needing professional support. I think this is the reason schools are often surprised when parents come to them with private testing. They can blame the education-industrial complex ("there was nothing to see there, private testers were just out to make money") but in my experience having seen many such reports, they are often carefully written and not hyperbolic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

OP here. I am having a little trouble keeping up with this thread while at work, didn't expect it to explode this much.

To be clear, she was evaluated and she does not have ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or anything else that has a label.

This is not at all surprising to me after having read a ton, talked to her teachers, and multiple medical professionals, as well as a few parents whose kids do have these diagnoses. But we spent the money to get an official confirmation.

In some ways, a diagnosis would be easier.

I am not sure why so many internet strangers are so confident that they know my child better than literally multiple medical professionals, therapists, teachers, and relatives. I didn't even go into detail about it in the OP because I was asking about healthy scripts for me during tantrums, not why she is the way she is or how to parent.

OP, you provided too much information about your dc. Parents with easy children say that tantrums don’t happen after age x and get to feel good about their parenting. My mom used to be the smug parent of two easy children. Then she had a grandson with special needs and none of her stuff worked. She was shocked. It’s true that well behaved kids are evidence of at least decent parenting, but poorly behaved children are proof of nothing. You need to look at what the parent is doing to determine if they’re doing a god job with the hand they’ve been dealt. You’re clearly trying.

In the future, share less about your DC and more about what you need. Fire example, if you’d excluded your DC’s age and included the fact that you’ve already taken this parenting class or read that book, you’d have more helpful responses.

[Anonymous]

I had a child like this, and everybody in the family can’t walk on eggshells trying to figure out what they might do for this child to explode.

First, I went to a psychologist to teach me how to parent this child. Basically, I kinda did the opposite with this child that I did with my other children, which was instead of putting them in timeout, etc by themselves I sat with them and showed them how to breathe through feelings.

Eventually, when the child was about third grade they went to a psychologist himself, and they learned about recognizing the feelings inside their body that might lead to an outburst. As soon as I felt those feelings, they learned how to remove themselves from the situation, breathe it out, understand why the situation was making them mad it might not make other people mad.

Also, my child did meditation apps because if you bring the anxiety level down when they do get frustrated, they’re not as close to outbursts as if they don’t meditate.

I also have this child do lots of sports to burn off energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

OP here. I am having a little trouble keeping up with this thread while at work, didn't expect it to explode this much.

To be clear, she was evaluated and she does not have ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or anything else that has a label.

This is not at all surprising to me after having read a ton, talked to her teachers, and multiple medical professionals, as well as a few parents whose kids do have these diagnoses. But we spent the money to get an official confirmation.

In some ways, a diagnosis would be easier.

I am not sure why so many internet strangers are so confident that they know my child better than literally multiple medical professionals, therapists, teachers, and relatives. I didn't even go into detail about it in the OP because I was asking about healthy scripts for me during tantrums, not why she is the way she is or how to parent.

What kind of eval did you possibly do for all those things at 5? She had a full neuropsychiatric evaluation? Or did you literally just see a ped? It’s not the same, at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There might be a diagnosis in your future. Either way, take Dan Shapiro's 10 week parenting class. In person, if possible. Go with your DH. Learn when to give empathy in the moment, and when to use "planned ignoring."

Learn to save your own emotions (hopelessness, etc) for later, because you need your emotions under control so you can think straight to respond the best way possible. Your goal should be to avoid inadvertently reinforcing bad behavior while you're busy being supportive and loving.

This, OP.

It will also provide a community of support for you.

Winging it on your own is not working. The class has helped many.

Agree there may be a diagnosis in her future, and perhaps your own. I wonder if you may perhaps be experiencing the dysregulation of ADD and concurrent ADD rejejection sensitive dysphoria, for example?

There needs to be a bright line, hitting is not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a child like this, and everybody in the family can’t walk on eggshells trying to figure out what they might do for this child to explode.

First, I went to a psychologist to teach me how to parent this child. Basically, I kinda did the opposite with this child that I did with my other children, which was instead of putting them in timeout, etc by themselves I sat with them and showed them how to breathe through feelings.

Eventually, when the child was about third grade they went to a psychologist himself, and they learned about recognizing the feelings inside their body that might lead to an outburst. As soon as I felt those feelings, they learned how to remove themselves from the situation, breathe it out, understand why the situation was making them mad it might not make other people mad.

Also, my child did meditation apps because if you bring the anxiety level down when they do get frustrated, they’re not as close to outbursts as if they don’t meditate.

I also have this child do lots of sports to burn off energy.

Great post. My kid like this is now in 3rd grade and totally agree you have to parent kids like this differently. Some kids just do not have big, intense feelings. So when they get upset, you can put them in a time out or just say "sorry, I won't talk to you about this until you change your tone" or whatever. Highly sensitive kids will respond to this as rejection, and their response just gets bigger. It's not that they are taking advantage of you or trying to manipulate you, they just genuinely cannot handle the intensity of their emotional reaction, it makes them highly reactive to criticism and punishment, and the whole thing can just spiral. These kids need more instruction and help with managing their emotions because their emotions are very strong.

My kid like this has actually become incredibly articulate about emotions and has a well above average ability to identify emotions and explain them. Just because she's been working on it since age 5 or so, and has spent so much time with me and others learning how to manage her intense feelings. She still struggles sometimes but it's SO much easier than it was a few years ago. Challenges are learning opportunities and highly emotional kids have the capacity to become very emotionally intelligent kids because they get so many opportunities to work through tough emotions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

OP here. I am having a little trouble keeping up with this thread while at work, didn't expect it to explode this much.

To be clear, she was evaluated and she does not have ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or anything else that has a label.

This is not at all surprising to me after having read a ton, talked to her teachers, and multiple medical professionals, as well as a few parents whose kids do have these diagnoses. But we spent the money to get an official confirmation.

In some ways, a diagnosis would be easier.

I am not sure why so many internet strangers are so confident that they know my child better than literally multiple medical professionals, therapists, teachers, and relatives. I didn't even go into detail about it in the OP because I was asking about healthy scripts for me during tantrums, not why she is the way she is or how to parent.

Who did the evaluations and what type?

Are you saying a neuropsych eval was already done? What practice?

[Anonymous]

Do EMDR for your child abuse trauma.

Get evaluated for ADD yourself. It likely is contributing to your emotional regulation issues and executive function overwhelm. Medication would likely help a lot. Same for anxiety, and the 2 often go hand in hand.

Get a CBT or DBT therapist yourself to work on emotional regulation, have to learn before you can teach. This will work best after the prior step.

Physically restrain and or separate sibs as often as needed to prevent violence in the home.

I think this may be a troll, very unlikely that a 5 year old has had a full neuropsych + other competent evals.

[Anonymous]

She sounds worse than a lot of the kids in the explosive kids book, so I’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. You’re peddling in major denial so work on that first.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm the "this is annoying" poster. Are you able to tag out and let your husband deal with some of this? I totally understand that it's peculiarly upsetting due to your own particular background, but if you're not able to control your own reactions you're setting your daughter up for the same problems down the road.

Do you think it was your mother's fault (or your fault) when you melted down as a kid? Can you extend that same grace to yourself and your daughter?

[Anonymous]

You are continuing the cycle. Hitting is not ok, by the child, or you.

You need to target your own reactivity and stop modeling it. Not with a script, with a psych eval, meds, EMDR for trauma and CBT or DBT for regulation.

In the meantime, walk away when you begin to be reactive. Teach sib to walk away from angry violent people, in the home or outside it.

All the books and focus on child are not addressing your own issues, past and present. Start there.

The Shapiro class is excellent, not sure I understand your resistance?

[Anonymous]

"Children do well when they can" and "she's not giving me a hard time, she's having a hard time."

What have you done to figure out why things are so difficult for her?