Help me learn what to think during major tantrums

[Anonymous]

I mostly think “ugh, this is so annoying, I wish she wouldn’t do this.”

[Anonymous]

I go through it with her. If she's wailing whatever, I repeat it in a low, calm voice. "You're never going to school again. You hate the bus..." I hold her and hug her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the recommendation of the Explosive Child. I read it selectively during this phase and it helped me a lot.

A specific script I would recommend is that when a big tantrum is happening and you feel those negative, shameful thoughts rising up, to see if you can train yourself to go in an adjacent room for a minute and just count backwards from 10. Or take a few deep breaths. Or punch a pillow. Whatever it takes to give you a little space to process.

THEN go back to your DD and see if you can approach her more calmly. It sounds like you know that your mental response of "you're a bad kid and I'm a bad mom" is both false and unproductive. But it's an emotional response that has likely been drilled into you since YOU were a 5 year old struggling with big feelings. If you can just give yourself a little bit of space to recognize "ok, that's not useful here" I bet you can access some additional patience and tolerance to just stay calm through the tantrum and help her co-regulate.

Also, something that helps both my DH and I a lot (and that I gleaned from the Explosive Child) is to learn to recognize what responses have an escalating effect on a meltdown. In our cases, responding with anger and blame always makes the meltdown worse, because then our kid felt the shame we are feeling and she hates that feeling and her emotional response gets even larger. So whatever you can do bring the temperature down is better. Like you can even say almost the exact same thing, but if you say it calmly and in a compassionate voice, it will work better. Think the difference between:

1) Yelling or raising your voice to say "you can't hit me! stop hitting me! this is not acceptable!"

versus

2) In a calm voice "I can see you are upset but I cannot let you hit me. If you can't stop hitting, I will need to leave the room for a moment until you can stop."

It's the same message, but the first one is going to make your kid's brain go nuts, and the second offers a path to resolution for both of you. The calmer version doesn't accept the bad behavior any more than the angry version. And the calmer version is more productive. You will get there.

I completely agree with this but hitting a sibling is not okay. What's the way to deal with that in the moment too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mostly think “ugh, this is so annoying, I wish she wouldn’t do this.”

This is a simple response but actually a great one. Because you can see how this parent is not internalizing the child's behavior or mental state. This PP is acknowledging that the moment is hard -- "this is so annoying" -- and that this is a behavior her DD should stop, but there's not moralizing about how her DD must be a "bad kid" or she must be a "bad mom" for this to be happening. It's just matter of fact.

I also want to note that I think the comments about how the child must have ADHD or another SN to be unproductive on this particular thread. Not because it's impossible that's the case -- who knows, maybe. But because OP's issue is not that her child has meltdowns. It's that OP's response to meltdowns is unproductive and dysfunctional. The PP above also has a kid who has meltdowns. But the PP's response is just to acknowledge that it sucks and then move on. OP's response is to internalize the meltdown and view it as a verdict on her parenting or on her child's value as a person. Regardless of whether SNs exist, the PP's response is going to help a parent deal with the situation better than OP's response.

So then the problem is how to help OP stop with her dysfunctional thought process and adopt a more productive thought process like PP. That's something that has to happen internally for OP and is totally independent of whether her DD has SNs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a highly emotional, deeply-feeling mom with a highly emotional, deeply-feeling 5-year-old.

She has intense tantrums more often than most kids. She still hits me and older sibling when upset (not all the time, but several times a week). Parenting her can be hard because I have to be "on" so much - watching for when she starts getting escalated, quickly de-escalating the emotional climate to avoid a tantrum, teaching and reinforcing emotional regulation skills (while also working really hard to keep myself calm). And also coaching older sibling and playing interference when she sets the little one off with teasing or whatever.

DD doesn't have any diagnoses and does well at school, on playdates, and with grandparents, so I don't think there's anything to fix - this is just the kid I got, which is not shocking given that my mom and I are both the same way.

I have read a ton, I've been to therapy, but I still struggle when my husband or I are not able to prevent the tantrum and she does hit or scream. My inner voice immediately says "You (or your husband or your kid or your whole family) is bad, messed up, a failure. No matter how hard you try, your kid is hitting and screaming regularly. Normal kids her age do not do this. This is hopeless."

I am wondering what a healthy alternative script would be given that I can't change the reality: the major tantrum is happening, most kids have grown out of this by age 5 but mine hasn't, and my dream of having a happy, calm, positive family is not possible. So what do I tell myself in these situations?

She only had these fits with you because she knows that you let her get away with this behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the recommendation of the Explosive Child. I read it selectively during this phase and it helped me a lot.

A specific script I would recommend is that when a big tantrum is happening and you feel those negative, shameful thoughts rising up, to see if you can train yourself to go in an adjacent room for a minute and just count backwards from 10. Or take a few deep breaths. Or punch a pillow. Whatever it takes to give you a little space to process.

THEN go back to your DD and see if you can approach her more calmly. It sounds like you know that your mental response of "you're a bad kid and I'm a bad mom" is both false and unproductive. But it's an emotional response that has likely been drilled into you since YOU were a 5 year old struggling with big feelings. If you can just give yourself a little bit of space to recognize "ok, that's not useful here" I bet you can access some additional patience and tolerance to just stay calm through the tantrum and help her co-regulate.

Also, something that helps both my DH and I a lot (and that I gleaned from the Explosive Child) is to learn to recognize what responses have an escalating effect on a meltdown. In our cases, responding with anger and blame always makes the meltdown worse, because then our kid felt the shame we are feeling and she hates that feeling and her emotional response gets even larger. So whatever you can do bring the temperature down is better. Like you can even say almost the exact same thing, but if you say it calmly and in a compassionate voice, it will work better. Think the difference between:

1) Yelling or raising your voice to say "you can't hit me! stop hitting me! this is not acceptable!"

versus

2) In a calm voice "I can see you are upset but I cannot let you hit me. If you can't stop hitting, I will need to leave the room for a moment until you can stop."

It's the same message, but the first one is going to make your kid's brain go nuts, and the second offers a path to resolution for both of you. The calmer version doesn't accept the bad behavior any more than the angry version. And the calmer version is more productive. You will get there.

I completely agree with this but hitting a sibling is not okay. What's the way to deal with that in the moment too?

I would grab her wrist and get down on her level and look her dead in the eyes and say something like, "we do not hit!" Before whisking her off away from the target. But that's me. Talking about those big feelings night be next but in the moment she's going in for a slap I move fast to intervene. There is a little shock factor but that's worked in my favor with an out of control child.

[Anonymous]

“She’s not giving me a hard time, she’s having a hard time” helped me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your immediate reaction to her hitting or screaming?

I try for all the stuff that the books say -- emotional validation and setting clear boundaries.
Stay calm myself, hold her, talk through it, help her calm down.

The problem is that sometimes my own thoughts about me (or her) being messed up, broken, or a failure make this impossible and then I'll scream myself or say something mean like "You are such a terrible kid". Which is why I posted asking what good parents with difficult kids tell themselves in their heads to avoid losing their cool.

A think you need to change your approach. What you’re doing isn’t working. Once you find the right approach it will make your life easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly think “ugh, this is so annoying, I wish she wouldn’t do this.”

This is a simple response but actually a great one. Because you can see how this parent is not internalizing the child's behavior or mental state. This PP is acknowledging that the moment is hard -- "this is so annoying" -- and that this is a behavior her DD should stop, but there's not moralizing about how her DD must be a "bad kid" or she must be a "bad mom" for this to be happening. It's just matter of fact.

I also want to note that I think the comments about how the child must have ADHD or another SN to be unproductive on this particular thread. Not because it's impossible that's the case -- who knows, maybe. But because OP's issue is not that her child has meltdowns. It's that OP's response to meltdowns is unproductive and dysfunctional. The PP above also has a kid who has meltdowns. But the PP's response is just to acknowledge that it sucks and then move on. OP's response is to internalize the meltdown and view it as a verdict on her parenting or on her child's value as a person. Regardless of whether SNs exist, the PP's response is going to help a parent deal with the situation better than OP's response.

So then the problem is how to help OP stop with her dysfunctional thought process and adopt a more productive thought process like PP. That's something that has to happen internally for OP and is totally independent of whether her DD has SNs.

I’m the PP and I want to clarify that I do sometimes get pretty annoyed, but never to the point of being physically rough or saying something cruel. (I do sometimes raise my voice!) OP mentioned that she is like this and so is her mom, I wonder how many of these patterns are things she picked up from her childhood and her mother’s response to her own behavior. The things I find most challenging in my children are things I share.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the recommendation of the Explosive Child. I read it selectively during this phase and it helped me a lot.

A specific script I would recommend is that when a big tantrum is happening and you feel those negative, shameful thoughts rising up, to see if you can train yourself to go in an adjacent room for a minute and just count backwards from 10. Or take a few deep breaths. Or punch a pillow. Whatever it takes to give you a little space to process.

THEN go back to your DD and see if you can approach her more calmly. It sounds like you know that your mental response of "you're a bad kid and I'm a bad mom" is both false and unproductive. But it's an emotional response that has likely been drilled into you since YOU were a 5 year old struggling with big feelings. If you can just give yourself a little bit of space to recognize "ok, that's not useful here" I bet you can access some additional patience and tolerance to just stay calm through the tantrum and help her co-regulate.

Also, something that helps both my DH and I a lot (and that I gleaned from the Explosive Child) is to learn to recognize what responses have an escalating effect on a meltdown. In our cases, responding with anger and blame always makes the meltdown worse, because then our kid felt the shame we are feeling and she hates that feeling and her emotional response gets even larger. So whatever you can do bring the temperature down is better. Like you can even say almost the exact same thing, but if you say it calmly and in a compassionate voice, it will work better. Think the difference between:

1) Yelling or raising your voice to say "you can't hit me! stop hitting me! this is not acceptable!"

versus

2) In a calm voice "I can see you are upset but I cannot let you hit me. If you can't stop hitting, I will need to leave the room for a moment until you can stop."

It's the same message, but the first one is going to make your kid's brain go nuts, and the second offers a path to resolution for both of you. The calmer version doesn't accept the bad behavior any more than the angry version. And the calmer version is more productive. You will get there.

I completely agree with this but hitting a sibling is not okay. What's the way to deal with that in the moment too?

PP here. I'm no expert but my response would be to either hold the child's hands to prevent the hitting and say "hitting is not okay, I cannot let you hit your sister" OR, if the child is really melting down and that's not possible, to remove the sibling while saying the same thing.

The key no matter what, for me, is that my response is calm and does not escalate the emotion of the moment, whether she is hitting me or the sibling.

I've read a ton on "co-regulation" and how one thing kids like this need is a model for what it looks like to stay calm even when you are upset or when something is happening that you don't like, so addressing sibling issues with calmness is especially useful because usually sibling conflicts (especially those with hitting) have occurred because a child is understandably upset about something the sibling is doing, but is handling it in the worst possible way. Like perhaps a younger sibling has taken a toy or knocked down a lego set, or an older sibling is refusing to share a snack that was given to both of them or is teasing or taunting. The child has an emotional response to this and, lacking access to any other tools for resolving the conflict or their strong emotions, yells and hits.

So in that moment, this is enormously powerful to see an adult enter the conflict, register upset over what is happening (the yelling/hitting) and then respond calmly. My mantra in these moments is often "say less." My kids know that the quieter I am in responding to a problem, probably the more angry I am, but I use the quiet to control my feelings so that I can respond calmly. I think every time I do this, my kids absorb it as another example of what it looks like to manage strong emotions in the moment and not let them lead to violence or yelling. With repetition, I have seen my kids mimic my responses and handle conflicts the same way -- calmly, even while expressing anger and articulating the problem ("sissy, you took my doll without asking and that is not okay"). It's satisfying to watch your kids develop this ability through your example.

I'll also note that if it's a big conflict, we usually debrief later when people are calmer. I don't believe in forced apologies because my impression is that they are not genuine, but we will talk about what went wrong, how we can handle it better next time, and also remind one another we love each other. Debriefs usually involve cuddles and hugs which reinforces connections between me and the kids and among the kids, and also help with regulation (physical touch is a huge part of regulating emotions, more so for some kids than others). During this time my kids will often spontaneously hug each other to make amends. It needs to happen when everyone is feeling calm though, and often after other needs (hunger, tiredness) are met.

None of this is easy but I've just found that dividends of finding ways to resolve conflicts with calm control just pay over and over. It's the single biggest parenting tip I have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“She’s not giving me a hard time, she’s having a hard time” helped me.

I’m the “this is annoying” PP and I have heard this a lot, but I do not find it helpful. My sympathy pretty much runs out after about two minutes of screaming. I can still be kind and quiet and patient, but my internal monologue is going to be an eye roll and a “here we go again.”

[Anonymous]

She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

[Anonymous]

This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

[Anonymous]

This too shall pass or the Hail Mary (or prayer of your choice) over and over. Didn't always work but often helped keep me calm.