Help me learn what to think during major tantrums

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

And to help you out - talking to a therapist and a pediatrician is NOT an evaluation and rules absolutely nothing out at all. Pediatricians almost never suggest anything is wrong ever. Your kid needs OT, speech maybe for regulation and possibly medication. Or do this for awhile it will get better around 8 but puberty and pre will be hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly think “ugh, this is so annoying, I wish she wouldn’t do this.”

This is a simple response but actually a great one. Because you can see how this parent is not internalizing the child's behavior or mental state. This PP is acknowledging that the moment is hard -- "this is so annoying" -- and that this is a behavior her DD should stop, but there's not moralizing about how her DD must be a "bad kid" or she must be a "bad mom" for this to be happening. It's just matter of fact.

I also want to note that I think the comments about how the child must have ADHD or another SN to be unproductive on this particular thread. Not because it's impossible that's the case -- who knows, maybe. But because OP's issue is not that her child has meltdowns. It's that OP's response to meltdowns is unproductive and dysfunctional. The PP above also has a kid who has meltdowns. But the PP's response is just to acknowledge that it sucks and then move on. OP's response is to internalize the meltdown and view it as a verdict on her parenting or on her child's value as a person. Regardless of whether SNs exist, the PP's response is going to help a parent deal with the situation better than OP's response.

So then the problem is how to help OP stop with her dysfunctional thought process and adopt a more productive thought process like PP. That's something that has to happen internally for OP and is totally independent of whether her DD has SNs.

I’m the PP and I want to clarify that I do sometimes get pretty annoyed, but never to the point of being physically rough or saying something cruel. (I do sometimes raise my voice!) OP mentioned that she is like this and so is her mom, I wonder how many of these patterns are things she picked up from her childhood and her mother’s response to her own behavior. The things I find most challenging in my children are things I share.

PP and that is so true, I am the same way. There is nothing like parenting your kid through a challenge you also have. I really relate to OP's comment that her kid is emotional and has big-feelings, and that OP is also like this. I got yelled at a lot as a child for crying, for instance, and that's come up for me when I have a kid who is crying and being inconsolable. I also used to get yelled at for complaining that I was bored, so that one is a major trigger for me.

But I think knowing your triggers and working through how you feel your parents handled that stuff when you were a kid (and whether their response actually helped you get better, which in my case it didn't -- I think their yelling made it worse) can make it easier to change that pattern with your own kid when those behaviors come up.

[Anonymous]

Do you and your mom enjoy being deregulated? I know I don’t. So I got my similar kid an actual evaluation with an actual professional and got parenting coaching and actual help. I didn’t just chalk completely abnormal behavior up to temperament because that’s inane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Except that you're not a psychologist, PP. What you see in your classrooms is undiagnosed kids coming through, along with the ones whose behavior will naturally resolve. At that age it's nearly impossible for a layperson to differentiate who is going to end up with diagnosis. Only a seasoned developmental ped or psychologist can do that. My kid with severe inattentive ADHD was given a tentative diagnosis at 6, and a confirmation of the diagnosis at 10.

So instead of saying "it's not uncommon, relax", you need to say "keep an eye on it, if it doesn't resolve, you need to have your kid evaluated". Especially if the parent tells you that they are like this too, and one of the parent was like this too. Mental health issues are coded in one's genes and are therefore potentially inheritable.

- geneticist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Except that you're not a psychologist, PP. What you see in your classrooms is undiagnosed kids coming through, along with the ones whose behavior will naturally resolve. At that age it's nearly impossible for a layperson to differentiate who is going to end up with diagnosis. Only a seasoned developmental ped or psychologist can do that. My kid with severe inattentive ADHD was given a tentative diagnosis at 6, and a confirmation of the diagnosis at 10.

So instead of saying "it's not uncommon, relax", you need to say "keep an eye on it, if it doesn't resolve, you need to have your kid evaluated". Especially if the parent tells you that they are like this too, and one of the parent was like this too. Mental health issues are coded in one's genes and are therefore potentially inheritable.

- geneticist.

Occasional hitting during an outburst is exceedingly common in 5 yr olds. The PP (was that you) claimed that "no kids" in her child's special needs school were hitting at age 5. That's just wrong. Lots of kids hit at age 5. The amount of hitting can vary and there is a type and amount of hitting that is absolutely a problem, but it's not "once, when upset."

Also, OP says her kid does not have these issues at school, but has these tantrums at home and this is when the hitting happens. This is also super common -- by 5 a lot of kids know how to behave in the classroom (aside from maybe the occasional bad moment) but I have heard from many parents and seen with my own kids that they can have more issues at home where they feel "safe" to express negative emotions and act out. There is even a phrase for this -- "after-school restraint collapse" -- and you can see it especially flare up in the fall or after long breaks from school as kids acclimate to the rules of the classroom and act out more at home.

Point is, I'm perfectly qualified to tell you whether or not tantrums or hitting like what OP describes are "normal" or "abnormal" in 5 yr olds and what OP describes is normal (unless it's all the time, the tantrums are very long or hard to resolve, or the hitting is excessive and the child is hurting others or herself, none of which OP indicates is the case).

Being a geneticist does NOT make you an expert in early childhood development.

[Anonymous]

I take a deep breath, sit next to her and keep myself regulated by visualizing a calm, sunny, sandy beach with a bright blue ocean. And I try to empathize with her but remain firm (“I know you want ice cream, but sometimes the answer and is yes and sometimes it’s no. I can tell you’re really upset.” I will try to lighten the mood and eventually she is receptive.

My older child (my son) had/has more intense tantrums that take longer to pass. Same tactics. Imagine anchor myself to that calm spot, remember he isn’t being himself, and co-regulate until he calms down and can be receptive to my trying to de-escalate or lighten the mood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She needs a consequence for hitting. Every single time. The same consequence and consistency.
I understand she gets emotional and disregulated, but when she’s calm you need to tell her this is what’s going to happen if she hits someone going forward.

This. She may be hungry, tired, etc so trying to prevent that is helpful but she’s five and you need to get this under control now. Walk her to her room if you can, let her tantrum, when it’s over consequence and apology. She’s too old for hitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Except that you're not a psychologist, PP. What you see in your classrooms is undiagnosed kids coming through, along with the ones whose behavior will naturally resolve. At that age it's nearly impossible for a layperson to differentiate who is going to end up with diagnosis. Only a seasoned developmental ped or psychologist can do that. My kid with severe inattentive ADHD was given a tentative diagnosis at 6, and a confirmation of the diagnosis at 10.

So instead of saying "it's not uncommon, relax", you need to say "keep an eye on it, if it doesn't resolve, you need to have your kid evaluated". Especially if the parent tells you that they are like this too, and one of the parent was like this too. Mental health issues are coded in one's genes and are therefore potentially inheritable.

- geneticist.

Occasional hitting during an outburst is exceedingly common in 5 yr olds. The PP (was that you) claimed that "no kids" in her child's special needs school were hitting at age 5. That's just wrong. Lots of kids hit at age 5. The amount of hitting can vary and there is a type and amount of hitting that is absolutely a problem, but it's not "once, when upset."

Also, OP says her kid does not have these issues at school, but has these tantrums at home and this is when the hitting happens. This is also super common -- by 5 a lot of kids know how to behave in the classroom (aside from maybe the occasional bad moment) but I have heard from many parents and seen with my own kids that they can have more issues at home where they feel "safe" to express negative emotions and act out. There is even a phrase for this -- "after-school restraint collapse" -- and you can see it especially flare up in the fall or after long breaks from school as kids acclimate to the rules of the classroom and act out more at home.

Point is, I'm perfectly qualified to tell you whether or not tantrums or hitting like what OP describes are "normal" or "abnormal" in 5 yr olds and what OP describes is normal (unless it's all the time, the tantrums are very long or hard to resolve, or the hitting is excessive and the child is hurting others or herself, none of which OP indicates is the case).

Being a geneticist does NOT make you an expert in early childhood development.

Tantrums can be normal. Hitting is not.

[Anonymous]

Lots of 5yo hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of 5yo hit.

None of mine did not even the one with major SN that hit until early 4. I don’t know any other kid that hit at 5. Not a one. It’s not normal or common and it’s not tolerated in school. At least not at my kids schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of 5yo hit.

None of mine did not even the one with major SN that hit until early 4. I don’t know any other kid that hit at 5. Not a one. It’s not normal or common and it’s not tolerated in school. At least not at my kids schools.

OP didn't say the child was hitting at school. OP is exclusively talking about when her child has a tantrum around OP and how OP handles it. If OP was saying "my kid keeps hitting at school, how do I stop it" this would be a different conversation. This is about a kid who is having tantrums at home and they at least sometimes involve hitting. It's not about OP's kid having a hitting problem at school.

Hitting at age 5 is super common, even if none of your kids ever did it. Google it -- it's one of the top requests for parental advice for this age group. These are kids who are responsive to conflict and competition, meaning they get upset if a sibling takes a toy or a says something unkind, but they are still developing conflict resolution skills and may struggle with impulsivity. All of that is developmentally normal, which is why hitting is common in this age group and parents often ask for help in how to address it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really abnormal. In my kids special needs school no kids were hitting at this age. You need an actual evaluation.

At five? Nope, not abnormal. It's possible OP's kid needs an eval but nothing she describes raises a red flag for me for this age (former preschool/kindergarten teacher).

There is of course a wide range of "hitting" and there is some hitting that would make me immediately recommend an evaluation, but usually the issue is a tantrum that lasts unusually long and especially where the hitting is all the time and cannot be stopped. OP hasn't described that. It sounds like there is occasional hitting among siblings during disputes and that OP's main concern is that she is highly triggered by the hitting when it happens and it provokes a highly emotional and sometimes violent response in her. That's a super common problem, especially for parents who were hit or screamed at as kids.

Except that you're not a psychologist, PP. What you see in your classrooms is undiagnosed kids coming through, along with the ones whose behavior will naturally resolve. At that age it's nearly impossible for a layperson to differentiate who is going to end up with diagnosis. Only a seasoned developmental ped or psychologist can do that. My kid with severe inattentive ADHD was given a tentative diagnosis at 6, and a confirmation of the diagnosis at 10.

So instead of saying "it's not uncommon, relax", you need to say "keep an eye on it, if it doesn't resolve, you need to have your kid evaluated". Especially if the parent tells you that they are like this too, and one of the parent was like this too. Mental health issues are coded in one's genes and are therefore potentially inheritable.

- geneticist.

Occasional hitting during an outburst is exceedingly common in 5 yr olds. The PP (was that you) claimed that "no kids" in her child's special needs school were hitting at age 5. That's just wrong. Lots of kids hit at age 5. The amount of hitting can vary and there is a type and amount of hitting that is absolutely a problem, but it's not "once, when upset."

Also, OP says her kid does not have these issues at school, but has these tantrums at home and this is when the hitting happens. This is also super common -- by 5 a lot of kids know how to behave in the classroom (aside from maybe the occasional bad moment) but I have heard from many parents and seen with my own kids that they can have more issues at home where they feel "safe" to express negative emotions and act out. There is even a phrase for this -- "after-school restraint collapse" -- and you can see it especially flare up in the fall or after long breaks from school as kids acclimate to the rules of the classroom and act out more at home.

Point is, I'm perfectly qualified to tell you whether or not tantrums or hitting like what OP describes are "normal" or "abnormal" in 5 yr olds and what OP describes is normal (unless it's all the time, the tantrums are very long or hard to resolve, or the hitting is excessive and the child is hurting others or herself, none of which OP indicates is the case).

Being a geneticist does NOT make you an expert in early childhood development.

Tantrums can be normal. Hitting is not.

Hitting is a normal part of many tantrums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has anxiety or adhd. You are in denial. BTDT.

OP here. I am having a little trouble keeping up with this thread while at work, didn't expect it to explode this much.

To be clear, she was evaluated and she does not have ASD, ADHD, anxiety, or anything else that has a label.

This is not at all surprising to me after having read a ton, talked to her teachers, and multiple medical professionals, as well as a few parents whose kids do have these diagnoses. But we spent the money to get an official confirmation.

In some ways, a diagnosis would be easier.

I am not sure why so many internet strangers are so confident that they know my child better than literally multiple medical professionals, therapists, teachers, and relatives. I didn't even go into detail about it in the OP because I was asking about healthy scripts for me during tantrums, not why she is the way she is or how to parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I humbly suggest that hyperactive ADHD runs in the family, OP.

We have inattention ADHD in the family. We're the opposite. Calm, quiet, patient (and prone to massive daydreaming). I can count the fingers of one hand the number of times my 2 kids combined have had tantrums in their lives - and they're 20 and 15 now.

It can be hard for parents who have the same profile to recognize it as atypical, or needing special interventions, school accommodations, medication, or therapy. So read the Explosive Child, implement the suggestions (you're doing some of them already, which is great). You'll need to be vigilant in elementary and middle school, in case she starts to struggle in school, or struggle making friends.

+1