People who were raised in a “partner comes first” household

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

"Date night" is about much more than sex. It's about staying connected as a couple. It's about going out together or with friends (sometimes we did that when the kids were younger), so just doing something that you as adults want to do. We also made sure each of us had a night out with friends at least every 2-3 weeks, while the other manned the household for the evening. So that lets each parent be their own self/adult and also focus on themselves.

I didn't marry my husband to give up having fun (without the kids) a few times a month. I'm more than just a parent, and my kids will be fine with a sitter for 3-4 hours.

[Anonymous]

My husband was raised by parents who made it clear that they prioritized their relationship over their kids; for instance, his dad saying that if mom and kids were drowning, he'd save mom. They did the minimum as parents and resented the money they had to spend on their kids and told them that too. They retired early and moved out of state. I think if birth control had been available earlier, they wouldn't have had any kids. They would have been happier as DINKS. Some people should not have kids. It doesn't make them better people or help them grow.or rise to the occasion. They resent the drain on their resources and selves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

Why are you pretending Europe is a monolith?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

My European friends who have family help do go on date nights. Really the main reason is that babysitters aren’t as common in Western European countries. Wages are much lower and families have less disposable income. The average white collar family in a Western European country can’t afford a sitter on a regular basis.

You really think a European couple wouldn’t want to go out to dinner alone??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well my father was a severely narcissistic individual and my mother always put him and his needs first but I wouldn't recommend it. It meant she would promise to do something with us but then cancel it because your father is tired. The man never operated a toaster, poured himself a glass of orange juice. when she broke her hip, she demanded that my sister leave her job to come home and pour his glass of orange juice since apparently he doesn't know how.

This also describes my family growing up. My dad was not capable of being focused on kids -- he only focused on his own happiness and well being and would become irritated/angry with his spouse or kids if we didn't meet his needs or expectations. My mom thought of herself as kid focused but really she designed the household around his needs and also trained all of us in how to avoid upsetting him (I have very distinct memories of my mom telling me to just let my dad win arguments even when he was incorrect, to keep peace).

My parents are still this way but I've sought to have a different dynamic. My DH is not a narcissist, thankfully, and I insist on mutual respect in our family. When we had a kid, our family mantra became "everyone gets their needs met." When we have conflicting needs, we sit down and figure it out. But no one is a martyr and no one gets their way just because they'll throw the biggest fit if they don't.

[Anonymous]

I get this. The marriage is the foundation of the family. I try to practice this but in reality my kids come first. Their actual needs rarely conflict with our marriage needs though.

Many divorces happen because the marriage isn't being supported and in the end the kids suffer (reduced resources, less time with parents etc). Kids are a temporary thing in a long term marriage.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of divorces happen because people think they have other options, decide they want a poly life of at least 2, and don't know how to resolve conflicts peacefully. Sure there are some where it's too kid focused, but the majority of unfaithful people I meet tend to be conflict adverse and would never even bring up that they had needs and wants. They prefer to do things on the sly. So yes, I think spending time and effort pleasing your spouse is important, but more than that, people need to care more about staying in the marriage and learn to work through issues. Abusive situations are still abusive if you stay and devote time to an abuser.

[Anonymous]

I had a very traditional marriage and I was married for 24 years. He was a doctor. I was his office manager. He came first. Once we had children and I stayed home. I got a job when the kids were in elementary school. I did not tell him. It was 10-3 working in my girlfriend's boutique. He was very angry because I was going out on my own.

I hid money till I could divorce him. He made sure he always came first not matter what the cost to my mental health. Don't be me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

I'm American but this is how we do it. I think date night was invented by wealthy Americans because to me the idea of spending money on an evening babysitter just to go out alone with my spouse, when I could spend some time alone with my spouse after the kids go to bed, is nonsensical. But I'm middle class and have a million things I'd rather spend money on than babysitters.

And yes, as a mom in particular, as my kids get older, my focus is on myself. Moms needs to reclaim ourselves as our kids gain independence. My DH doesn't need me to focus on him -- he's an adult!

I also don't get the thing about needing to "stay connected." Your are married, you are raising kids together. You see each other daily, presumably sleep in the same bed. Of course we are connected. How would a date night change that? Can you only talk to your spouse when your children are in a different location? That's weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

I'm American but this is how we do it. I think date night was invented by wealthy Americans because to me the idea of spending money on an evening babysitter just to go out alone with my spouse, when I could spend some time alone with my spouse after the kids go to bed, is nonsensical. But I'm middle class and have a million things I'd rather spend money on than babysitters.

And yes, as a mom in particular, as my kids get older, my focus is on myself. Moms needs to reclaim ourselves as our kids gain independence. My DH doesn't need me to focus on him -- he's an adult!

I also don't get the thing about needing to "stay connected." Your are married, you are raising kids together. You see each other daily, presumably sleep in the same bed. Of course we are connected. How would a date night change that? Can you only talk to your spouse when your children are in a different location? That's weird.

You don’t understand why a couple might want to go dine at a restaurant that isn’t child friendly? See an R rated movie? Talk to each other and connect out at a restaurant or place outside of the home?

Did you only stay at home pre-kids? When you dated your husband, were all your dates at home?

The only American women I know who don’t go on date nights seem to dislike their husbands and have an unhealthy obsession with their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

My European friends who have family help do go on date nights. Really the main reason is that babysitters aren’t as common in Western European countries. Wages are much lower and families have less disposable income. The average white collar family in a Western European country can’t afford a sitter on a regular basis.

You really think a European couple wouldn’t want to go out to dinner alone??

I’d never go out without my child if they were home. Now that they are older they have activities that last a few hours so we might go out to eat then without them. But, being a family is more important to me and my parents rarely took us and there was a huge disconnect. I’ll go out alone with a child more than my spouse. That’s the best time to get your kid to open up. We never hired a babysitter. I’d rather that money go to the college fund. Soon enough kids will be at college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

I'm American but this is how we do it. I think date night was invented by wealthy Americans because to me the idea of spending money on an evening babysitter just to go out alone with my spouse, when I could spend some time alone with my spouse after the kids go to bed, is nonsensical. But I'm middle class and have a million things I'd rather spend money on than babysitters.

And yes, as a mom in particular, as my kids get older, my focus is on myself. Moms needs to reclaim ourselves as our kids gain independence. My DH doesn't need me to focus on him -- he's an adult!

I also don't get the thing about needing to "stay connected." Your are married, you are raising kids together. You see each other daily, presumably sleep in the same bed. Of course we are connected. How would a date night change that? Can you only talk to your spouse when your children are in a different location? That's weird.

You don’t understand why a couple might want to go dine at a restaurant that isn’t child friendly? See an R rated movie? Talk to each other and connect out at a restaurant or place outside of the home?

Did you only stay at home pre-kids? When you dated your husband, were all your dates at home?

The only American women I know who don’t go on date nights seem to dislike their husbands and have an unhealthy obsession with their children.

Not that poster but family time important. I have zero interest in going to a movie. And, zero interest in overpriced restaurants too. It’s unhealthy not to spend time with your kids. My parents were like you. Pretty much no relationship as adults. And, they suck as grandparents. I have to force mine to see them yearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well my father was a severely narcissistic individual and my mother always put him and his needs first but I wouldn't recommend it. It meant she would promise to do something with us but then cancel it because your father is tired. The man never operated a toaster, poured himself a glass of orange juice. when she broke her hip, she demanded that my sister leave her job to come home and pour his glass of orange juice since apparently he doesn't know how.

This also describes my family growing up. My dad was not capable of being focused on kids -- he only focused on his own happiness and well being and would become irritated/angry with his spouse or kids if we didn't meet his needs or expectations. My mom thought of herself as kid focused but really she designed the household around his needs and also trained all of us in how to avoid upsetting him (I have very distinct memories of my mom telling me to just let my dad win arguments even when he was incorrect, to keep peace).

My parents are still this way but I've sought to have a different dynamic. My DH is not a narcissist, thankfully, and I insist on mutual respect in our family. When we had a kid, our family mantra became "everyone gets their needs met." When we have conflicting needs, we sit down and figure it out. But no one is a martyr and no one gets their way just because they'll throw the biggest fit if they don't.

My parents were similar. My mom was about pleasing my dad and had us tiptoe around him. His sports and interests were the only ones that mattered. She or I had to have dinner on the table when he got home and he’d blow up if he did. Not like the food. The house had to be spotless. Instead of activities I’d come home and cook and lean and do laundry to keep the peace. Screaming all the time. They ended up divorcing as he had many affairs. My marriage is very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

I'm American but this is how we do it. I think date night was invented by wealthy Americans because to me the idea of spending money on an evening babysitter just to go out alone with my spouse, when I could spend some time alone with my spouse after the kids go to bed, is nonsensical. But I'm middle class and have a million things I'd rather spend money on than babysitters.

And yes, as a mom in particular, as my kids get older, my focus is on myself. Moms needs to reclaim ourselves as our kids gain independence. My DH doesn't need me to focus on him -- he's an adult!

I also don't get the thing about needing to "stay connected." Your are married, you are raising kids together. You see each other daily, presumably sleep in the same bed. Of course we are connected. How would a date night change that? Can you only talk to your spouse when your children are in a different location? That's weird.

You don’t understand why a couple might want to go dine at a restaurant that isn’t child friendly? See an R rated movie? Talk to each other and connect out at a restaurant or place outside of the home?

Did you only stay at home pre-kids? When you dated your husband, were all your dates at home?

The only American women I know who don’t go on date nights seem to dislike their husbands and have an unhealthy obsession with their children.

Not that poster but family time important. I have zero interest in going to a movie. And, zero interest in overpriced restaurants too. It’s unhealthy not to spend time with your kids. My parents were like you. Pretty much no relationship as adults. And, they suck as grandparents. I have to force mine to see them yearly.

Wait. You think someone doesn’t spend time with their kids if they occasionally go on a date night?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this "date night" thing is strictly American. I'm from Europe and no parents do date nights. Family is about raising kids and kids come first until they're old enough to manage themselves. In other words the amount of help decreases as the kids get older. People rarely spend time as a couple, but spend time in groups of extended families. And then once kids are older I don't put my husband first, I put myself first. As a person, an individual. American society is overly focused on sex, it's almost like there's nothing else interesting in life except sex.

I'm American but this is how we do it. I think date night was invented by wealthy Americans because to me the idea of spending money on an evening babysitter just to go out alone with my spouse, when I could spend some time alone with my spouse after the kids go to bed, is nonsensical. But I'm middle class and have a million things I'd rather spend money on than babysitters.

And yes, as a mom in particular, as my kids get older, my focus is on myself. Moms needs to reclaim ourselves as our kids gain independence. My DH doesn't need me to focus on him -- he's an adult!

I also don't get the thing about needing to "stay connected." Your are married, you are raising kids together. You see each other daily, presumably sleep in the same bed. Of course we are connected. How would a date night change that? Can you only talk to your spouse when your children are in a different location? That's weird.

You don’t understand why a couple might want to go dine at a restaurant that isn’t child friendly? See an R rated movie? Talk to each other and connect out at a restaurant or place outside of the home?

Did you only stay at home pre-kids? When you dated your husband, were all your dates at home?

The only American women I know who don’t go on date nights seem to dislike their husbands and have an unhealthy obsession with their children.

Not that poster but family time important. I have zero interest in going to a movie. And, zero interest in overpriced restaurants too. It’s unhealthy not to spend time with your kids. My parents were like you. Pretty much no relationship as adults. And, they suck as grandparents. I have to force mine to see them yearly.

Do you have any interests outside of your children? Dining out and movies were two examples. What about golf, tennis, hiking - ANYTHING that doesn’t involve your kids?

My mom didn’t and it was very unhealthy to be so focused on her children.