What to say to flakey friend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Op here, I totally agree with you. Slow fade is lame, I know that.

Slow fade isn’t lame, and it’s not the same as ghosting. If someone repeatedly stands me up, I’m under no obligation to have a sit down with them and tell them my feelings. I just won’t make plans with them anymore.

If someone "repeatedly" stands you up, you've already done yourself dirty by not confronting them and addressing the situation. Once is an honest mistake. Twice? Suspicious. More than that? You're contributing to the dynamic by not addressing the problem.

You have an obligation *to yourself* to stand up for yourself and express how you feel.

NP. But it’s not worth it. Neither is the flakey friend. Set up another meeting to talk it out? Put a date of doom on my calendar to express how I feel? Life’s too short for this bullshit.

My MIL used to *mail* me long discursive letters saying exactly how she felt about me and or attempting to apologize. I opened one - it was very upsetting. Second one I handed unopened to DH. At some point, a letter would arrive and I’d shred it, unread. Cut your losses and save yourself!

Y'all make a lot of stupid excuses. You don't need to write a "long discursive letter" about it. But the next time Stacy asks you to hang, you just say "I've been kinda frustrated by the fact that you've asked to hang out and then bailed a few times now. What's up?" OP says this person repeatedly asks for new opportunities to hang. There's your chat window.

And it shouldn't feel "date of doom" to stand up for yourself and articulate your own feelings directly. If it does, you might want to get some help.

Stacey doesn't actually typically ask to hang out. She just asks friendly and says something like "we should hang out soon" waiting for you to suggest something that she can consider and bail on if she wants because she in fact didn't come up with it so she's not responsible.

So you keep giving her the opportunity, without talking with her directly about the impact of her actions, hoping she'll "take the hint" so you're not responsible?

Lot of two-faced "friends" on this thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Op here, I totally agree with you. Slow fade is lame, I know that.

Slow fade isn’t lame, and it’s not the same as ghosting. If someone repeatedly stands me up, I’m under no obligation to have a sit down with them and tell them my feelings. I just won’t make plans with them anymore.

What I owe *to myself* is relative peace and quiet. That's not what I get whenever I have some come-to-Jesus talk with a friend about how I feel they've slighted me. What I have received in the past when I've tried is escalation, bad behavior, and verbal abuse. I don't need that in my life, and I don't need it to feel like a decent human.

If someone "repeatedly" stands you up, you've already done yourself dirty by not confronting them and addressing the situation. Once is an honest mistake. Twice? Suspicious. More than that? You're contributing to the dynamic by not addressing the problem.

You have an obligation *to yourself* to stand up for yourself and express how you feel.

Ever considered that maybe your "come-to-Jesus talk" approach could use some refinement?

Yes, I have. I have tried introspection, but I have also learned that someone calling me names is not helping either of us. At any rate, if I have to be perfect in my delivery, then that's another reason to do the slow fade.

So you're going to take your unprocessed hurt from someone else out on new people? Nobody can call you names unless you're talking to them, and if you're "slow fading", you haven't even given them the opportunity to reveal their true colors/level of friendship. You're judging them by a grudge you carry against someone else.

This isn't friendly. It's a badly damaged way of being passive-aggressive to people who haven't hurt you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Op here, I totally agree with you. Slow fade is lame, I know that.

Slow fade isn’t lame, and it’s not the same as ghosting. If someone repeatedly stands me up, I’m under no obligation to have a sit down with them and tell them my feelings. I just won’t make plans with them anymore.

If someone "repeatedly" stands you up, you've already done yourself dirty by not confronting them and addressing the situation. Once is an honest mistake. Twice? Suspicious. More than that? You're contributing to the dynamic by not addressing the problem.

You have an obligation *to yourself* to stand up for yourself and express how you feel.

NP. But it’s not worth it. Neither is the flakey friend. Set up another meeting to talk it out? Put a date of doom on my calendar to express how I feel? Life’s too short for this bullshit.

My MIL used to *mail* me long discursive letters saying exactly how she felt about me and or attempting to apologize. I opened one - it was very upsetting. Second one I handed unopened to DH. At some point, a letter would arrive and I’d shred it, unread. Cut your losses and save yourself!

+1

No one with any sense is going to sit and listen to or read a contemptuous lecture from another adult that seeks to summarize and itemize one's character. One, another people is not in my head, is not around me every second of the days for years to know what I have been through and what I am thinking and two, other people need to worry about their own problems and stay out of my brain

It's not about someone else's character; you're not taking their inventory. You're talking about your feelings. I statements.

But feelings come from within, not from others. The snow makes me annoyed, it might make you happy. Same snow.

Just tell the person who is irritating you that you can't have a relationship with them anymore because you have an expectation that is not being met, or ghost them. Make it about you and your see desires and not them and their character.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Op here, I totally agree with you. Slow fade is lame, I know that.

Slow fade isn’t lame, and it’s not the same as ghosting. If someone repeatedly stands me up, I’m under no obligation to have a sit down with them and tell them my feelings. I just won’t make plans with them anymore.

What I owe *to myself* is relative peace and quiet. That's not what I get whenever I have some come-to-Jesus talk with a friend about how I feel they've slighted me. What I have received in the past when I've tried is escalation, bad behavior, and verbal abuse. I don't need that in my life, and I don't need it to feel like a decent human.

If someone "repeatedly" stands you up, you've already done yourself dirty by not confronting them and addressing the situation. Once is an honest mistake. Twice? Suspicious. More than that? You're contributing to the dynamic by not addressing the problem.

You have an obligation *to yourself* to stand up for yourself and express how you feel.

Ever considered that maybe your "come-to-Jesus talk" approach could use some refinement?

Yes, I have. I have tried introspection, but I have also learned that someone calling me names is not helping either of us. At any rate, if I have to be perfect in my delivery, then that's another reason to do the slow fade.

So you're going to take your unprocessed hurt from someone else out on new people? Nobody can call you names unless you're talking to them, and if you're "slow fading", you haven't even given them the opportunity to reveal their true colors/level of friendship. You're judging them by a grudge you carry against someone else.

This isn't friendly. It's a badly damaged way of being passive-aggressive to people who haven't hurt you.

No, not a new person. A person who has shown a history of inability to respond with any level of maturity when told about how their poor behavior impacts me. I guess my experience is different from the OP's in that I did actually speak to the person multiple times, tried multiple times, and they reacted badly and persisted in poor behavior. At some point I decided I didn't need to try any more and did the slow fade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last straw for me was inviting a flaky friend to my house for lunch.

She arrived late and pretty much spent the entire time on her phone. Ate quickly and left. It was all so weird.

Same. I made lunch and they didn’t show up. Later, found out the person had major depression.

I felt kind of bad afterward that I did the slow fade. I still miss that person sometimes.

I no longer miss her. Sorry, but I did a lot of self-reflection and gave this relationship a great deal of thought and insight. To counter PP who contends that a slow fade or ghosting is cowardly, I disagree. When a relationship is so one sided and focused only upon the other persons needs and schedule and fragile emotions, I am done. This isn’t sustainable and isn’t real life. The world will not cater to your every whim, emotion, life changing event, moods and neither will I.

With this former friend, I later had an awful family situation to navigate and reached out to her to advise (kind of…hi, it’s been awhile but here’s what happened to me) and was met with a dismissive too bad/so sad answer. It was as if no one else could have setbacks and misfortunes except for her.

New poster. Re: The bold -- am I missing some of the timeline here, PP? Did you "reach out to her to advise" you after you had done your slow fade? If so: Why would you expect any response other than the one you got? I suspect you'll say you expected her to feel empathy for your situation but if you'd already done the slow fade, why would you expect that result when you suddenly needed something from her, even advice? I'm asking seriously.

Maybe you made this request for her advice before the fade, but you say it was "later," so it's not clear to me.

I would not reach out like that to anyone I no longer wanted in my life, even if that person had been in a similar situation. Perhaps especially if that person had been in a simiilar situation.

[Anonymous]

I used to lash out and get snarky. My friend was honestly surprised. So my tactic from that point on was to be as sweet as pie and never count on her.

If she called me up last minute, I would go or not depending on how I felt at the moment. For example, she asked me that morning to come over New Year's Day afternoon. Less than two hours later, she texted that she and her husband "kind of wanted to watch movies." I mean, how much clearer did she have to make it that she was flakey and didn't value me?

Since direct confrontation doesn't work, I just avoid her two out of three times she reaches out. Sad but old enough to realize I can't change anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

Not sure why it would be a fight. But to me, being an adult and communicating is important

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

Not sure why it would be a fight. But to me, being an adult and communicating is important

Assuming the flake can communicate as a mature adult. Which...sorry have you met people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

Not sure why it would be a fight. But to me, being an adult and communicating is important

Because the flakey one is in denial and is somewhat narcissist, and tries to turn it back on you for confronting her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

Not sure why it would be a fight. But to me, being an adult and communicating is important

Because the flakey one is in denial and is somewhat narcissist, and tries to turn it back on you for confronting her?

Agree. The flakey one has already repeatedly provided evidence that they cannot communicate with maturity. That's the flaking. Why would anyone expect them to then just say "oh thank you for your honesty, Susan. I will do better"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

It is when they repeatedly back out of plans. Not going to have that conversation over text, sorry. If they can’t bother to show up, I get the message. I’m not worth their time or courtesy.

In this case, you're making it about you. Your friend might be in trouble with regards to depression or anxiety. I learned this the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

It is when they repeatedly back out of plans. Not going to have that conversation over text, sorry. If they can’t bother to show up, I get the message. I’m not worth their time or courtesy.

In this case, you're making it about you. Your friend might be in trouble with regards to depression or anxiety. I learned this the hard way.

Making it about me? Ok, if you say so. I’m so baffled by this idea that I’m to blame for other people’s flakiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to lash out and get snarky. My friend was honestly surprised. So my tactic from that point on was to be as sweet as pie and never count on her.

If she called me up last minute, I would go or not depending on how I felt at the moment. For example, she asked me that morning to come over New Year's Day afternoon. Less than two hours later, she texted that she and her husband "kind of wanted to watch movies." I mean, how much clearer did she have to make it that she was flakey and didn't value me?

Since direct confrontation doesn't work, I just avoid her two out of three times she reaches out. Sad but old enough to realize I can't change anyone else.

direct confrontation isn't "lash out and get snarky". "I statements" aren't snarky or lashing out.

Ooof, y'all...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to upset the cowards on this thread, but if you "slow fade" your friend for being flaky, you're a crappy friend yourself.

Tell people what upsets you. Seriously. It's not that hard. Sneaking out the back door because you've never bothered to acquired confrontation skills makes you the flaky friend: you are flaking on the conversation that obviously needs to happen here. Not saying it's resolvable, but you need to use your words and say "Hey, this is upsetting to me. When you bail after making plans, I feel _______". It's also part of being a good friend to yourself. Advocate for your needs.

The slow fade needs to die the coward's death it deserves, along with "ghosting" and all this other low-integrity nonsense we're slipping into. Do better.

Ok so you use your words. Your flakey friend gets upset and is in denial that she is in fact a flake. So instead of the slow fade, your friendship ends with a fight. Is that an improvement?

If you have a direct conversation about your feelings, using "I statements" and keeping it about how you feel (not who/how they are), and your "friend" responds with a fight, yes, that's better than a "slow fade" because you both know exactly who you are, where you stand, and why.

You're out a "friend" who wasn't, and they're out a real one because they aren't.