My mom is like Kate Gosselin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't yell at my husband, but I can relate to some of these posters. When our kids were young, we would be out doing something as a family in the morning. We'd come home around noon and everyone would be hangry. I'd be changing the baby's diaper, helping the toddler in the bathroom, making sure the oldest washed up, etc. I walk in to the kitchen to make lunch for the kids and there is my husband, eating a sandwich and watching tv. No thought to making lunch for the 3 kids. Just taking care of his own needs and relaxing. It was infuriating!

This... and also, frankly there are many times that I try to ask my DH to do or change something in a nice, calm tone.... hardly ever works. What does work? Nagging 5 times and getting very obviously frustrated. Sure, I'd love it if he'd listen and take me seriously the first time. Sometimes, a lot of times, that doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

I meant…you think that the person fending for themselves and not cleaning up for themselves and expecting others to do so is the victim…

dp. I think the person who feels frustrated and who takes that frustration and nags, yells or otherwise berates another person is being abusive. If a person rises to the level of public yelling, that person is out of control of their emotions and not behaving in a healthy manner. The target of the yelling is a victim, as are the bystanders and witnesses to the unhinged fockery.

Yelling is an issue and not a healthy dynamic but this idea that it's abuse always is also a little much. Probably why so many people are dysfunctional. Most people are lazy and won't do their stuff without consequences. Most people would prefer someone yelling at them to clean up dirty dishes 15 minutes after asking them nicely to which the other person ignored and then moving on rather than holding a grudge and doing something mean behind their back like not cooking for them or leaving them because they don't know how to communicate and get the other person to cooperate.

Most people don’t yell at each other when the other person doesn’t do what they want. My husband called on his way home and asked me Tom move the cars in the driveway (it’s Tetris) but I forgot. Was he a bit frustrated - sure but did he come in and yell at me. No. Later I had asked him to get me a drink on his way upstairs. He forgot. Did I yell at him No. he did the laundry and put the piles of laundry in their spots and reminded everyone take their pile upstairs. One of the kids left her pile as she was doing homework. Did my husband yell at her. No.

The belief that yelling at each other whenever someone frustrates you or doesn’t do as they are told or asked is just very unhealthy and abusive behaviour. No matter how you try to sugar cost me. Yelling at each other just isn’t part of how we act… nor our family and friends. There are a lot of ways to communicate other than yelling. My boss frustrates me daily, I don’t spent my day at work yelling at him.

[Anonymous]

To add: it is extra irritating because I don't believe that a lot of these things should even need to be spoken about. The above example? Honestly if I have multiple little kids hanging off me, I am trying to meet their needs and struggling and my DH sits there tending only to himself? If anything that's the "abuse," not someone 'nagging' or snapping at him.

[Anonymous]

I can’t imagine living in all your homes where the accepted form of communication is yelling if someone frustrates you or doesn’t do what you want them to do. I could never live with that level of controlling behaviour or verbal abuse. And I feel for the kids growing up in these homes full of yelling. Despite’s people’s claims that it’s fine and normal to lash out in anger if your spouse frustrates you, research shows that kids raised in homes with yelling and shouting are just as affected as kid in hikes where people hit. While you might try to tel them it’s normal, it isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Just google yelling in homes impact on kids. The results aren’t pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Leave him at home with the kids. You don't need to bring your circus to the store.

That was one example - this is ALWAYS the dynamic. I'm just offering this up to OP as a potential reason someone who is usually kind would seem consistently angry towards their partner, this isn't a thread for advice for me

I was married to a man who wasn't helpful or particularly compassionate, but I still didn't raise my voice or snap at him. I used my words to express what I needed or wanted, while trying to acknowledge his good intentions or inability to read my mind. "You made me treat you badly" . . . nope. That's just victim blaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1000. I definitely have the tendency to nitpick and I am truly working on that dynamic with DH but it is a 2 person dynamic. He has the tendency to stand by and watch me do things and I am completely exhausted with 2 under 4. We have had some huge arguments and I do think things are getting better but it's rough. Recently the baby pooped in the tub while DH was supervising their bath (and I was cleaning the kitchen after dinner before anyone starts 'at least he gives a bath...') and instead of doing literally anything, he yells for me and then stands there watching me and making panicked comments as i dealt with the entire situation by myself.... I totally snapped at him in front of the kids which obviously I shouldn't have but I'm like seriously??? Come on.

I’ve been in exactly the same situation: two under four, poop in the bath, comments of disgust while I actually deal with the mess. And I too had been cleaning the kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just google yelling in homes impact on kids. The results aren’t pretty.

When they are being yelled at. Yelling at a hard of hearing dad is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is probably like the 11:56 poster who truly thinks they can do no wrong and their spouse is just one giant constant f*ck up. That is the view of a lot of abusers and how they justify their abuse. They have a well if they just did things how I told them or did them the right way then I wouldn't need to yell or hit or abuse them but they deserve it because they aren't doing what I want, how I want, when I want.

Most abusers justify their abuse just like 11:56. It is always someone else's fault and it is deserved. Her example is pretty standard. Her husband deserved it because he is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what she wanted how she wanted. Same reason men use for abusing women. She deserved it because she is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what I wanted how I wanted.

People don't see it in themselves as they truly think their spouse deserves the abuse (just like 11:56).

NP. Puh-lease. While I agree Kate likely has a personality disorder and is F'd up, what 11:56 describes is nothing like that.

As a survivor of long term childhood DV, I committed to never treating others as I had been treated. I did a lot of work getting to a healthy place before meeting my DH - who was diagnosed with ADHD after our oldest DC was.

I can completely relate to 11:56. I could have written her post. Her response was not abusive - unless you call every expression of annoyance/frustration with your partner abusive. You try walking in our shoes and see how well your emotional regulation remains unthreatened.

So you are saying that if my husband becomes resentful because he doesn’t believe I meet his expectations and I don’t complete his task lists like he wants then he is justified in being verbally and emotionally abusive and yelling at me?

I think your childhood trauma has skewed your view. There is never a need to yell and name call and verbally abuse your spouse because they disappointed you. Many people have resentment in life and in their marriages and feeling that provides justification to be abusive is a very unhealthy view.

You might feel it is fine to tell and get angry and nasty to your spouse and for your spouse to also treat you that way and that is justified by personal emotion - a therapist can help you see that isn’t healthy and is abuse. All abusers justify their behaviour - the fact you can justify it in your own head doesn’t make it right. You also shouldnt hit someone or be hit because they frustrate you and you feel resentment…in case you feel that is also an acceptable way to express frustration

You think snapping at someone when overwhelmed from the unrelenting burden of carrying the mental load is verbally and emotionally abusive?

Given your and other posters criteria, seems like everyone is an abuser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is probably like the 11:56 poster who truly thinks they can do no wrong and their spouse is just one giant constant f*ck up. That is the view of a lot of abusers and how they justify their abuse. They have a well if they just did things how I told them or did them the right way then I wouldn't need to yell or hit or abuse them but they deserve it because they aren't doing what I want, how I want, when I want.

Most abusers justify their abuse just like 11:56. It is always someone else's fault and it is deserved. Her example is pretty standard. Her husband deserved it because he is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what she wanted how she wanted. Same reason men use for abusing women. She deserved it because she is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what I wanted how I wanted.

People don't see it in themselves as they truly think their spouse deserves the abuse (just like 11:56).

NP. Puh-lease. While I agree Kate likely has a personality disorder and is F'd up, what 11:56 describes is nothing like that.

As a survivor of long term childhood DV, I committed to never treating others as I had been treated. I did a lot of work getting to a healthy place before meeting my DH - who was diagnosed with ADHD after our oldest DC was.

I can completely relate to 11:56. I could have written her post. Her response was not abusive - unless you call every expression of annoyance/frustration with your partner abusive. You try walking in our shoes and see how well your emotional regulation remains unthreatened.

So you are saying that if my husband becomes resentful because he doesn’t believe I meet his expectations and I don’t complete his task lists like he wants then he is justified in being verbally and emotionally abusive and yelling at me?

I think your childhood trauma has skewed your view. There is never a need to yell and name call and verbally abuse your spouse because they disappointed you. Many people have resentment in life and in their marriages and feeling that provides justification to be abusive is a very unhealthy view.

You might feel it is fine to tell and get angry and nasty to your spouse and for your spouse to also treat you that way and that is justified by personal emotion - a therapist can help you see that isn’t healthy and is abuse. All abusers justify their behaviour - the fact you can justify it in your own head doesn’t make it right. You also shouldnt hit someone or be hit because they frustrate you and you feel resentment…in case you feel that is also an acceptable way to express frustration

You think snapping at someone when overwhelmed from the unrelenting burden of carrying the mental load is verbally and emotionally abusive?

Given your and other posters criteria, seems like everyone is an abuser.

You think it’s okay for a man who feels overwhelmed by the financial burden / pressures of being a breadwinner to take that out on his wife. And nothing he does can be called abuse because he is carrying a larger share of that burden and it’s her lack of action in equally contributing to the financial responsibilities of a family that is causing his frustration and feelings of being overwhelmed. So however he acts in anger towards her is her fault and not abuse. Have I got it right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just google yelling in homes impact on kids. The results aren’t pretty.

When they are being yelled at. Yelling at a hard of hearing dad is different.

Actually no. Parents yelling at each other has about the same harm as spanking. Anger and aggression in the home has a significant detrimental effect on kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to my father!

It never occurred to me until I saw rhis video compilation of Kate Gosselin yelling at her husband. That is my mom!

Growing up, and even now, my mom will SHOUT across a store angrily at my father and berate him in public. As a child it was super embarrassing and awkward. Obviously as an adult, I shut it down if it happens in my presence. But just like John, my dad stood and took it. It wasn’t any better in the confines of our house, either.

I wasn’t abused as a child, and though I believe my mother was very controlling, she wasn’t unkind.

Is this a personality disorder? I’d love to find clarity and research this more.

How can she be shouting angrily across stores and at home, be controlling etc and not be unkind? There’s a discrepancy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Yell at yourself you had 3 kids with him and you knew he was like this. Sounds like ADHD and you two need marital counseling.

Always the woman's fault. Always.

No! Women are always scapegoated and blamed. Not necessarily her fault.

[Anonymous]

Literally NO ONE on this thread has advocated for yelling or said it's okay. Rather, some of us are pointing out that women who do this are often responding (dysfunctionally and badly) to an existing bad dynamic.

Both of my parents were yellers. My siblings and I yelled at each other. We had a very dysfunctional and abusive environment when I was a kid. But I can also see that my parents yelled for different reasons, and it's useful to me to understand why that yelling happened in order to break the cycle in my own family.

My dad yelled because he was totally disconnected from his own emotions and felt everything as rage. He lacked communication skills and emotional management and he also subscribed to a "tough guy" self image and thought he could bully people into doing things. He also hit us.

My mom yelled out of frustration and exhaustion. She didn't have a partner in my dad and he was not supportive of her emotionally or practically. She was overwhelmed and felt unheard (because she was). She yelled to try and be heard because she was very often ignored.

Both of my parents came from abusive homes with similar dynamics, and they married and had kids very young. To a great degree they had no other options for behavior because they had ZERO other role models. Even now my parents are confused and surprised by how I parent, and shocked to see how effective calm communication is.

Writing off yelling as a "personality disorder" is lazy and unhelpful. People yell for reasons. Talking about those reasons doesn't excuse the yelling but it can help explain it and understand it. I can have empathy for both my parents even as a still have anger and resentment towards them for their behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is probably like the 11:56 poster who truly thinks they can do no wrong and their spouse is just one giant constant f*ck up. That is the view of a lot of abusers and how they justify their abuse. They have a well if they just did things how I told them or did them the right way then I wouldn't need to yell or hit or abuse them but they deserve it because they aren't doing what I want, how I want, when I want.

Most abusers justify their abuse just like 11:56. It is always someone else's fault and it is deserved. Her example is pretty standard. Her husband deserved it because he is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what she wanted how she wanted. Same reason men use for abusing women. She deserved it because she is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what I wanted how I wanted.

People don't see it in themselves as they truly think their spouse deserves the abuse (just like 11:56).

NP. Puh-lease. While I agree Kate likely has a personality disorder and is F'd up, what 11:56 describes is nothing like that.

As a survivor of long term childhood DV, I committed to never treating others as I had been treated. I did a lot of work getting to a healthy place before meeting my DH - who was diagnosed with ADHD after our oldest DC was.

I can completely relate to 11:56. I could have written her post. Her response was not abusive - unless you call every expression of annoyance/frustration with your partner abusive. You try walking in our shoes and see how well your emotional regulation remains unthreatened.

So you are saying that if my husband becomes resentful because he doesn’t believe I meet his expectations and I don’t complete his task lists like he wants then he is justified in being verbally and emotionally abusive and yelling at me?

I think your childhood trauma has skewed your view. There is never a need to yell and name call and verbally abuse your spouse because they disappointed you. Many people have resentment in life and in their marriages and feeling that provides justification to be abusive is a very unhealthy view.

You might feel it is fine to tell and get angry and nasty to your spouse and for your spouse to also treat you that way and that is justified by personal emotion - a therapist can help you see that isn’t healthy and is abuse. All abusers justify their behaviour - the fact you can justify it in your own head doesn’t make it right. You also shouldnt hit someone or be hit because they frustrate you and you feel resentment…in case you feel that is also an acceptable way to express frustration

You think snapping at someone when overwhelmed from the unrelenting burden of carrying the mental load is verbally and emotionally abusive?

Given your and other posters criteria, seems like everyone is an abuser.

I think that snapping at someone is an indication that you aren't coping well with life.