My mom is like Kate Gosselin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is probably like the 11:56 poster who truly thinks they can do no wrong and their spouse is just one giant constant f*ck up. That is the view of a lot of abusers and how they justify their abuse. They have a well if they just did things how I told them or did them the right way then I wouldn't need to yell or hit or abuse them but they deserve it because they aren't doing what I want, how I want, when I want.

Most abusers justify their abuse just like 11:56. It is always someone else's fault and it is deserved. Her example is pretty standard. Her husband deserved it because he is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what she wanted how she wanted. Same reason men use for abusing women. She deserved it because she is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what I wanted how I wanted.

People don't see it in themselves as they truly think their spouse deserves the abuse (just like 11:56).

NP. Puh-lease. While I agree Kate likely has a personality disorder and is F'd up, what 11:56 describes is nothing like that.

As a survivor of long term childhood DV, I committed to never treating others as I had been treated. I did a lot of work getting to a healthy place before meeting my DH - who was diagnosed with ADHD after our oldest DC was.

I can completely relate to 11:56. I could have written her post. Her response was not abusive - unless you call every expression of annoyance/frustration with your partner abusive. You try walking in our shoes and see how well your emotional regulation remains unthreatened.

[Anonymous]

I think Kate ended up being the bad guy in that story, though. She was really unhinged. Jon was a dope but he did a lot for the kids. She was kind of a monster.

I remember a later episode of a show where she did a wife swap or something and the home where she was staying was pristine. She criticized it though because some phone chargers were out on the counter. “Ew, clutter here” she said as she wrinkled her nose.

Obviously that was minor in comparison to how she treated her husband and children, but it was a tiny window into her psychotic brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Wow. Your DH is an ahole. Aren’t you embarrassed to be married to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is probably like the 11:56 poster who truly thinks they can do no wrong and their spouse is just one giant constant f*ck up. That is the view of a lot of abusers and how they justify their abuse. They have a well if they just did things how I told them or did them the right way then I wouldn't need to yell or hit or abuse them but they deserve it because they aren't doing what I want, how I want, when I want.

Most abusers justify their abuse just like 11:56. It is always someone else's fault and it is deserved. Her example is pretty standard. Her husband deserved it because he is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what she wanted how she wanted. Same reason men use for abusing women. She deserved it because she is a useless f*ck up who didn't do what I wanted how I wanted.

People don't see it in themselves as they truly think their spouse deserves the abuse (just like 11:56).

NP. Puh-lease. While I agree Kate likely has a personality disorder and is F'd up, what 11:56 describes is nothing like that.

As a survivor of long term childhood DV, I committed to never treating others as I had been treated. I did a lot of work getting to a healthy place before meeting my DH - who was diagnosed with ADHD after our oldest DC was.

I can completely relate to 11:56. I could have written her post. Her response was not abusive - unless you call every expression of annoyance/frustration with your partner abusive. You try walking in our shoes and see how well your emotional regulation remains unthreatened.

So you are saying that if my husband becomes resentful because he doesn’t believe I meet his expectations and I don’t complete his task lists like he wants then he is justified in being verbally and emotionally abusive and yelling at me?

I think your childhood trauma has skewed your view. There is never a need to yell and name call and verbally abuse your spouse because they disappointed you. Many people have resentment in life and in their marriages and feeling that provides justification to be abusive is a very unhealthy view.

You might feel it is fine to tell and get angry and nasty to your spouse and for your spouse to also treat you that way and that is justified by personal emotion - a therapist can help you see that isn’t healthy and is abuse. All abusers justify their behaviour - the fact you can justify it in your own head doesn’t make it right. You also shouldnt hit someone or be hit because they frustrate you and you feel resentment…in case you feel that is also an acceptable way to express frustration

[Anonymous]

DH and I noticed it runs in some of our friends families, like the women learn to henpeck without trying another dynamic with a spouse, and the men engage in learned helplessness to be henpecked rather than change the dynamic.

People can have their discussions in private but public arguing is so gross to see. I see fault on both sides engaging in the dynamic. My DH sees it as the women being taken with something (money/looks/whatever the guy had) and marrying anyway- overlooking the stuff that would soon get exhausting to deal with. "I come from a long line of women who marry idiots, so let me handle this" is his impression he does when we see it in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

And why the husbands "take" it - well their options are step up and take on their full responsibility or continue with the narrative that they have an angry nagging wife while they continue to have plenty of leisure time and few responsibilities beyond those individual tasked that are forced on them. Or divorce or put in the work in therapy I guess. The only option that involves no actual work or change on their part is carry on as is

I don't yell at my husband (I think it's bad for kids and embarrassing for me in public) but these two posts nail it. I have no idea what Kate Gosselin is like or what her marriage is like because I've never watched. But this is very much the dynamic in my marriage where my DH's passivity and refusal to step up results in my exhaustion and frustration and then people talk about my exhaustion and frustration as though they are the cause of the problem. But as the PP said:

its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

I'm not just randomly frustrated and exhausted -- these are not features of my personality. These are the result of being left alone to manage our kid and our home while also working FT. I don't know what I'd be like if I had a real partner in my marriage. But not this.

[Anonymous]

A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Yelling at your husband in public like this is definitely a you problem. And there’s definitely something wrong with you for having 3 kids with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

I meant…you think that the person fending for themselves and not cleaning up for themselves and expecting others to do so is the victim…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of abusers in this thread perfectly describing the abuser mindset and justification. If they lash out at their partner in any way it isn’t abuse because she or he did or didn’t do something that made them angry or frustrated and resentful and this led to them being unable to regulate their emotions so they took that anger or frustration or resentment out on their partner but it isn’t their fault and it isn’t abuse, because if he or she had just done or not done things to cause those emotions in the first place then they wouldn’t have had to have the dysregulated emotion taken out on them.

I feel like you have been legitimately abused, but that doesn’t mean everyone on this thread has.

I have an equal partner. If we were at the grocery store, he would be with me or near me, sharing the list. The list we made together. The meals we brainstormed together. If I had a spouse like the pp’s, who goes off and leaves her with 3 kids and the actual list to manage, buys food for just himself, cooks it for just himself without making sure the little ones are fed, and then doesn’t clean up…that would drive me crazy.

If you think that the person who is doing all the shopping for the family and then cleaning up after the person who just fended for themselves and didn’t even clean up after themselves expecting someone else to do it…you think they are the victim?? Because the person carrying the physical and mental load doesn’t do it without being upset??? You need to re-examine your life.

Honest question, if you’re both brainstorming and coming up with this list together, why the hell can’t you alternate who shops solo and who stays home with the three kids? Why the hell are you dragging the whole family of 5 to the grocery store? That’s insane, to be honest. Clearly it’s not working out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Yell at yourself you had 3 kids with him and you knew he was like this. Sounds like ADHD and you two need marital counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resentment that builds up when the adult that is supposed to be your partner in all the work of life instead bumbles around like they're somehow incapable or not responsible for anything forcing you to take the leadership role in EVERY. SINGLE. THING. and manage them through it is real. And results in things like regularly snapping at someone to do something because for the love of god you don't understand why they're not already doing something to help take care of everything / everyone

Obviously it's an unhealthy dynamic and I have no idea if your parent situation is this - but its a two person dynamic, not one person having a "personality disorder"

As an example my husband may join our 3 very young kids and me at the grocery store. He wonders off without a care in the world while I'm managing the kids and shopping for everything we need for the week. He may wonder back over with the ingredients for a meal he decided to cook for himself that afternoon that no one else likes and will take hours and leave the kitchen a mess. So yes what someone else may see is me snapping "can you just get the f'ing carrots and milk at least?!"

Again obviously not a health dynamic for anyone involved but also not just a me problem

Leave him at home with the kids. You don't need to bring your circus to the store.

That was one example - this is ALWAYS the dynamic. I'm just offering this up to OP as a potential reason someone who is usually kind would seem consistently angry towards their partner, this isn't a thread for advice for me

Then why did you offer up your whole life story,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I noticed it runs in some of our friends families, like the women learn to henpeck without trying another dynamic with a spouse, and the men engage in learned helplessness to be henpecked rather than change the dynamic.

People can have their discussions in private but public arguing is so gross to see. I see fault on both sides engaging in the dynamic. My DH sees it as the women being taken with something (money/looks/whatever the guy had) and marrying anyway- overlooking the stuff that would soon get exhausting to deal with. "I come from a long line of women who marry idiots, so let me handle this" is his impression he does when we see it in public.

It isn’t “learned helplessness.”

It’s “I will be criticized no matter what, so why even bother.”

Huge difference.

You can ask someone to do something or you can tell them how to do it. But you don’t get to do both. Some women are prone to doing both and over time, their abused husbands learn disengagement as a survival strategy.

[Anonymous]

the person can deserve to be yelled at AND the yelling can be dysfunctional, both at the same time.