My mom is like Kate Gosselin

[Anonymous]

If you grew up in abuse, there are other adults, total strangers, out in public who can get your Spidey senses tingling in the middle of a store. Even the quiet ones. Not all abuse is loud. I can look at these couples or families and just know all is not well in their world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just google yelling in homes impact on kids. The results aren’t pretty.

When they are being yelled at. Yelling at a hard of hearing dad is different.

Actually no. Parents yelling at each other has about the same harm as spanking. Anger and aggression in the home has a significant detrimental effect on kids.

Better than getting divorced. Have you seen that effect on kids?

Witnessing and being victim of bullying in the home is far more detrimental than visiting two calm parents in separate living spaces.

The problem of course is that most parents are terrible at self assessment for all the reasons that would be so, and many are unwilling to admit how much of a bully they may be to partner and to kids.

Very few bully parents do it only to the spouse and are always kind and patient with the children. Beyond which, subjecting your children to witnessing the bullying of their parent is abuse in itself. A partner who abuses their children's parent cannot themselves claim to be a good parent - they are among the worst kind of parent there is, creating a 'home' filled with tension and heightened anxiety in which little developing brains and bodies stew, learning unhealthy coping mechanisms that will become their lifetime struggle to overcome.

So the kids are screwed either way if the parents divorce. But now the kids get to roam back and forth between homes and maybe there will be additional financial stress on top of having bad parents. Divorce won’t make like better for kids. Which is why i said what i said.

Having fewer material things, a smaller or shared bedroom isn’t close to psychologically destructive as living inside a toxic marriage is for kids. Every adult I know who struggles with mental health and substance use disorder reports dysfunctional family of origin issues having to do with toxic behaviors of parents which compelled toxic behaviors in siblings and self.

I’ve never listened to any tortured adult lament the absence of cable TV or designer clothes from their childhoods as the reason they are struggling with self loathing and other serious issues in midlife.

I think it is neglectful parenting to choose financial security over providing a safe and peaceful home environment for a developing human being brought into this world through no choice of its own. I think it is cruelty to subject that child to psychological abuse so they can have more stuff and more vacations. That’s a sick mentality.

But the argument is that the abuser has a personality disorder. That doesn’t go away in divorce. The other spouse isn’t the target anymore. Otherwise you’re saying that the yled at spouse was the problem all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is enlightening to see how many believe that a woman can not claim to be abused if her husband can justify berating, scolding, screaming, yelling at her by identifying things she did or didn't do that led to his frustration and behaviour.

It is interesting as on many threads where a woman says her husband was screaming, yelling, berating her...people call it abuse. They don't ask but did you do anything or not do anything that led to him being frustrated or overwhelmed - is their something in your relationship dynamic that explains why he has no choice but to act that way.

I wonder if we will see more comments saying the same as this thread that if she is the cause (via action or inaction) of his frustration - then it isn't abuse.

It’s behavior, incel. We’re in the US.

PP has a valid point and you weren’t able to formulate a better response than this? Safe to say your side lost. Maybe you can vent your frustration by screaming at your DH and kids. Your anger is always justified right?

PP is not in the US or American and wants to lecture women on how to deal with husbands? I wonder what egalitarian place that wonderful PP is posting from.

I am a woman and I come from the wonderful egalitarian place called Canada, and can see the US in the distance from my back window! I was not lecturing women on how to deal with husbands. I was commenting on the thread about the many comments justifying abusive behaviour based on the actions of the spouse. Men or women - I feel the same. Same sex or opposite sex - man to woman or woman to man. If you have an issue with that post, you should also have an issue with all the similar posts with the sexes changed. And you still don't seem to know what an incel is. It isn't women who disagree with you.

how is yelling at someone being “abusive”? if you can see a woman yelling at her husband once and conclude she is the abusive one, that is quite something. maybe you’d seem like less of an incel if you didn’t focus exclusively on ways to blame women …

Do you have a point? If you are just going to continually justify why its okay for you to shout and yell and berate your husband and yes that is abuse, you will get support on here to be as nasty to him as you want...but not from me. I feel the same about men abusing women as I do about women abusing men and I won't support either. I don't really care how much you think spouses desrve to be abused. I don't. Adults can make other choices if they are in a really unhealthy dyanamic. Turning to abuse is not the answer for anyone.

Oh the poor husband! And the nagging wife! I wonder how things got to this terrible point. It’s really none of your business. But there you sit judging away.

Of course I judge abuse. I have no problem not accepting it. If I see you beating your kids, I will also judge - not just be empathetic that you are a woman who can't possibly find any other ways to manage your emotions without hurting others and you are a woman so you can't possibly be accountable for anything you do and who always says it has to be someone else's fault. I am a woman and I know many other women who manage to not be abusive or hurt other people and who are able to be accountable - and guess what - you could too. I judge you the same way I judge a man who abuses his wife. No issue at all judging either men or women who are abusive. I don't have any kind of unconditional support for anyone who is abusive or who tries to use being a woman as an excuse as to why they can't control themselves or why they can't be accountable for their own actions.

And you are being judged for being a one dimensional simpleton.

[Anonymous]

A husband watching his wife work herself to the bone, refusing to help her with anything even as she goes past the point of exhaustion, is very abusive. It's a way of completely devaluing her. But yelling back at him only feeds into the toxicity. She vents her anger just enough to be able to tolerate not leaving him, and he justifies his neglect because she's a yelling shrew. The only solution is to leave and partner with a man that doesn't view you as a beast of burden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you grew up in abuse, there are other adults, total strangers, out in public who can get your Spidey senses tingling in the middle of a store. Even the quiet ones. Not all abuse is loud. I can look at these couples or families and just know all is not well in their world.

Maybe or maybe you see everything through the lens of your own experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just google yelling in homes impact on kids. The results aren’t pretty.

When they are being yelled at. Yelling at a hard of hearing dad is different.

Actually no. Parents yelling at each other has about the same harm as spanking. Anger and aggression in the home has a significant detrimental effect on kids.

Better than getting divorced. Have you seen that effect on kids?

Witnessing and being victim of bullying in the home is far more detrimental than visiting two calm parents in separate living spaces.

The problem of course is that most parents are terrible at self assessment for all the reasons that would be so, and many are unwilling to admit how much of a bully they may be to partner and to kids.

Very few bully parents do it only to the spouse and are always kind and patient with the children. Beyond which, subjecting your children to witnessing the bullying of their parent is abuse in itself. A partner who abuses their children's parent cannot themselves claim to be a good parent - they are among the worst kind of parent there is, creating a 'home' filled with tension and heightened anxiety in which little developing brains and bodies stew, learning unhealthy coping mechanisms that will become their lifetime struggle to overcome.

So the kids are screwed either way if the parents divorce. But now the kids get to roam back and forth between homes and maybe there will be additional financial stress on top of having bad parents. Divorce won’t make like better for kids. Which is why i said what i said.

Having fewer material things, a smaller or shared bedroom isn’t close to psychologically destructive as living inside a toxic marriage is for kids. Every adult I know who struggles with mental health and substance use disorder reports dysfunctional family of origin issues having to do with toxic behaviors of parents which compelled toxic behaviors in siblings and self.

I’ve never listened to any tortured adult lament the absence of cable TV or designer clothes from their childhoods as the reason they are struggling with self loathing and other serious issues in midlife.

I think it is neglectful parenting to choose financial security over providing a safe and peaceful home environment for a developing human being brought into this world through no choice of its own. I think it is cruelty to subject that child to psychological abuse so they can have more stuff and more vacations. That’s a sick mentality.

But the argument is that the abuser has a personality disorder. That doesn’t go away in divorce. The other spouse isn’t the target anymore. Otherwise you’re saying that the yled at spouse was the problem all along.

DP. There is no easy answer here. I think in many/most cases it’s impossible to “stay together for the kids” when there is serious dysfunction. It falls apart and takes a big toll on your mental health. Or for all your efforts the conflicts get bigger and more toxic, possibly violent. The longer you let it build up the more explosive and difficult the divorce. So there’s a good case for divorcing before it gets to that point. Yes you still have to deal with it but from a stronger base.

In my case I lived with it and by the end was able to be non-reactive enough that we had few fights. We just did not put ourselves in any position to have to yell. It was my exDH who decided he needed to get out (mainly wanted $$ from our joint assets to waste).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A husband watching his wife work herself to the bone, refusing to help her with anything even as she goes past the point of exhaustion, is very abusive. It's a way of completely devaluing her. But yelling back at him only feeds into the toxicity. She vents her anger just enough to be able to tolerate not leaving him, and he justifies his neglect because she's a yelling shrew. The only solution is to leave and partner with a man that doesn't view you as a beast of burden.

Very insightful. Yes.