ASD and Empty Nesting-Accepting the Relationship With Your Child is Not the One You Wanted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SPCD is not ASD, which one is it?

It was explained to us at the time that Asperger’s was no longer a diagnosis. They met the social difficulty part of ASD and sensory issues but not repetitive behaviors. Diagnosis was SPCD. This was around age 9.

SPCD is a useless diagnosis. A lot of repetitive behaviors develop later and a lot of rigid behaviors can be present without the stereotypical autistic stims like hand flapping etc. And FWIW my kid’s repetitive behaviors are the least important in the scheme of things - they’re literally just a heightened variety of what we all do, like knee-jiggling when bored or tense.

OP since you never embraced the autism label I suggest you take one GIANT step back and do some reading of blogs and books by autistic adults. Maybe Neurotribes if you haven’t read it (RIP Steve Silberman). I think you’ve behaved absolutely abominably by dramatically cutting off your kid at a time when they may be vulnerable, and in reaction to their very age-appropriate behavior. But maybe it’s a good thing for you to get some distance to get therapy to differentiate yourself better from your kid, and also to learn about autism.

OP did not "cut off" this kid. OP deferred primary parenting to the kid's father, which is appropriate under these circumstances. The kid is being supported through college, as is appropriate.

OP, you and DC should probably get some therapy individually and as a pair. This transition is rough for many families, and rougher for families of kids with ASD

OP sent an email to her kid declaring she wouldn’t contact her for the rest lf the semester. It was probably appropriate for her to back off but she needs to seriously examine why she is creating drama.

She said until October parents weekend.

Look, it is typical of Asperger’s kids, teens, young adults AND adults to mask during the day in public and then lash out at home. It is devastating to their relationships - siblings, parents, roommates, significant others. Maybe friends if long exposures and no breaks.

Learning kindness, how to apologize, and how to regulate one’s emotions is at upmost priority for an HFA individual. Not dump on mom. Not avoid life. That is HER maladaptive coping mechanism.

You have to leave the room during these meltdowns. Not sit there and take it. Don’t bother trying to reason with an HFa melting down. Even via email.

My HfA kid wouldn’t talk during therapy either. She had a different excuse every other year - that’s private, I don’t want to, who cares, I don’t know her.

By the third session the (honest) psychologists would call and say, this isn’t working let’s not waste either of our time. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

They would be willing to met and talk with me for asd parenting tools. Btdt.

I did like reading Dr Kathy Marshacks books and she does zoom sessions. Try those for a couple months for some coping tools or until things start repeating. Her meet up groups are robust too- spouses and parents with HfA kids or spouses.

[Anonymous]

Is the father autistic too?

You’re not likely autistic, if you were you wouldnt be so worried about this or anyone. Out of sight, out of mind. Out of mind, out of sight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an autistic 18yo DD. I really wish I knew what this secret controversial issue is about, OP. I have no clue and have read every autism book I could find over the last decade. Is it something sexual that has you so reticent to share? My DD is asexual, which is very common with ASD.

No. But a somewhat common overlap. She may be asexual too, but that is not any issue. It’s not an “issue” for me. I have been supportive of her. Just complicates our relationship. Unfortunately, there is no private messaging here.

Unclear what is going on but sounds like OPs kid has some gender or orientation dysohoria too perhaps?

Look you can’t reason with some peoples if social medias telling them Mom is the bad guy, then that’s their gospel for the year and they dig in and get fixated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could be schizophrenia. My sister acted very similarly and ended up being diagnosed in college. I also have autism in my family so there might be a genetic link.

There are lots of comorbidities with ASD I folks. The ASD folks in my life I have had to emotionally detach from my HFA spouse and HFA daughter. It is very hard. But they will never have “normal” behaviors or empathy to life events or people. They just copy or mimic, if they feel up to it. But they’re often overwhelmed by life and in shutdown mode, so do not put any effort in to relationships or life or interests.

Try not to close doors but also don’t get stuck or lose YOUR sense of self.

Having an HFA adult child in college is a win. Take it one day at a time. I’ve found their lives are quite precarious- in a relationship, blow it up; have a job, say something crazy and are fired; getting good grades here but terrible grades and gave up there.

OP here. Thank you. It hurts to hear someone say I’m narcissistic. Not that I can never be. I’m not perfect. My dad is on the spectrum. Didn’t realize it as a kid and couldn’t understand why he was so cold, hated to be touched, never understood why emotions were important to anyone. We had a very rocky relationship and I really hated him. My parents were very unhappy because my mother felt unloved. Eventually week Asperger’s became more well known I finally realized why he was as he was and since then although I would not say we are close, I have compassion for him. Still, I grieved our relationship for a long time. I guess I look ahead and am afraid I will have to do the same thing with my child. My dad is in my life. It just will never be any kind of normal father/daughter relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could be schizophrenia. My sister acted very similarly and ended up being diagnosed in college. I also have autism in my family so there might be a genetic link.

There are lots of comorbidities with ASD I folks. The ASD folks in my life I have had to emotionally detach from my HFA spouse and HFA daughter. It is very hard. But they will never have “normal” behaviors or empathy to life events or people. They just copy or mimic, if they feel up to it. But they’re often overwhelmed by life and in shutdown mode, so do not put any effort in to relationships or life or interests.

Try not to close doors but also don’t get stuck or lose YOUR sense of self.

Having an HFA adult child in college is a win. Take it one day at a time. I’ve found their lives are quite precarious- in a relationship, blow it up; have a job, say something crazy and are fired; getting good grades here but terrible grades and gave up there.

OP again. Yes. I am very proud of her . She worked hard and I worked hard helping her have the extracurricular things she needed to get into a good school. She did not do the “normal” things a lot of kids did, so I looked for opportunities for her to show off her abilities—of which she was gifted with many. I am extremely proud of her. I have no doubt she will be academically fine in college. I’m not so sure about socially but she would not take any of my advice about how people usually make friends. So I just let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read an old story a while ago, which pretty much said that the role of a mother is to be a stable figure. There was a picture of a mom making food on a kitchen table, and the kids would just pop in, grab something, and leave. There was no conversation. To me, sorry to say, you sound too needy. Let your kid be. If he contacts you in emergencies, you're fine, he's fine. Don't put your own emotional issues for him to solve. Don't send any long e-mails. It's not your role. Your role is to be there when needed and you have to figure out how to manage your own emotions. It's normal for teens/young adults not to want to be around parents, and it's highly likely that he senses your neediness.

I agree with this interpretation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read an old story a while ago, which pretty much said that the role of a mother is to be a stable figure. There was a picture of a mom making food on a kitchen table, and the kids would just pop in, grab something, and leave. There was no conversation. To me, sorry to say, you sound too needy. Let your kid be. If he contacts you in emergencies, you're fine, he's fine. Don't put your own emotional issues for him to solve. Don't send any long e-mails. It's not your role. Your role is to be there when needed and you have to figure out how to manage your own emotions. It's normal for teens/young adults not to want to be around parents, and it's highly likely that he senses your neediness.

Thanks. I’m OP. Personally, I think that would be a horrible relationship. It reminds me of The Giving Tree. I do have needs. I thought I taught them that we all have needs. I agree that teenagers and young adults often forget this about their parents. I know I did, even though my mom and I were close. (We also fought a lot.)

I think a big part of what brought this on was suppressing my needs for several years while I got treated badly. And then a realization that I don’t have to do that anymore.

I can always be a convenience store for my kid, but man that is sad. And it is no real relationship.

Everyone is assuming I have a son. I have a daughter.

DP. Your daughter thinks you are needy and trying to cling to her. She is trying to get away from feeling responsible for your emotions. The best you can do is get busy with whatever there is outside of her. Work, elderly parent, etc.

[Anonymous]

I am very sorry you’re suffering OP. And also, your email crossed a line. Telling a college freshman that you wouldn’t be in touch until fall break because they hurt your feelings? Are you trying to manipulate your child into coming closer to you by withdrawing your affection? That is really hurtful and messed up.

[Anonymous]

I think you can safely let her be for now (I understand why you wrote the email but you shouldn’t have). Just leave her be and de facto you won’t have contact until break anyway.
Just try to find something to keep you mind off of her and her behavior. I am sorry you are going through this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This could be schizophrenia. My sister acted very similarly and ended up being diagnosed in college. I also have autism in my family so there might be a genetic link.

There are lots of comorbidities with ASD I folks. The ASD folks in my life I have had to emotionally detach from my HFA spouse and HFA daughter. It is very hard. But they will never have “normal” behaviors or empathy to life events or people. They just copy or mimic, if they feel up to it. But they’re often overwhelmed by life and in shutdown mode, so do not put any effort in to relationships or life or interests.

Try not to close doors but also don’t get stuck or lose YOUR sense of self.

Having an HFA adult child in college is a win. Take it one day at a time. I’ve found their lives are quite precarious- in a relationship, blow it up; have a job, say something crazy and are fired; getting good grades here but terrible grades and gave up there.

OP again. Yes. I am very proud of her . She worked hard and I worked hard helping her have the extracurricular things she needed to get into a good school. She did not do the “normal” things a lot of kids did, so I looked for opportunities for her to show off her abilities—of which she was gifted with many. I am extremely proud of her. I have no doubt she will be academically fine in college. I’m not so sure about socially but she would not take any of my advice about how people usually make friends. So I just let it go.

My NT teen is coachable and takes advice, usually follows directions, and even apologizes when she’s wrong.

My ASD teen, not so much. She thinks advice or even her swim coach offering her a tip is a personal attack. Not good.

She usually follows directions, and likes to say Yeah Yeah to any question if something was done. It’s usually not done, or it’s done incorrectly. Then a tantrum ensues. This has occurred over packing for a trip incorrectly, not studying for a test, not following cooking directions, not finishing homework, etc. It’s like pulling teeth.

Her perceptions are sometimes wrong - of what the teacher said, of the coach’s words, of my ask to go over the packing list - but then she digs in and gets really nasty towards anyone trying to help her. It’s really sad and hurtful. I am usually the target or her younger sister.

I could see OP’s situation happening to me down the road, over some obvious misperception that I can do nothing about. She often forgets it happened.

From what I’ve read it’s all because she “Intended” to do XYZ correctly, so when someone says it’s wrong they have a deep reaction that something unfair happened and get angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m hurting here, so please no cruel responses. If you feel the need, please move on.

I have a child with high functioning ASD. Would probably have been labeled Aspergers but that diagnosis went away so it was SPCD—basically the difficulty with social relationships and communication. I should say they don’t actually accept this diagnosis and see it as a label they don’t want so that makes therapy harder.

Up until the middle teen years, while they were always quite shy out in the world, they were still extremely loving and funny with my husband and me.

That changed in later teen years and they became more and more introverted, started pulling away from us. I mean, that is normal teen stuff. But it just got worse and worse. There were some other issues I don’t want to mention here, but they kind of overtook the coldness, lack of affection. But there was therapy. It never helped much, I think partially because my child wouldn’t talk. But they always got great grades. No disciplinary stuff. Just always seemed cold, sarcastic, very introverted, no eye contact, hated touching, etc….had a small group of friends they liked so that was enough for them and if they were happy I was happy.

Over the last few years 16-18 they became more and more cold with me. One word responses. It’s like pulling teeth to have a conversation. My father is very similar to this, so it was not new to me, and it made me sad. It was very hard having a dad like this. And the idea that my only child would be like this was depressing. But I guess I held on to the way they used to be and hoped the coldness with us was a stage.

I began to feel that I was getting what I would call scraps of affection. Felt very sad and jealous when I’d see parents close to their kids. I know teens are supposed to be obnoxious but almost all the time? I had an almost too close relationship to my mom so it was very hard. But I kept holding on to the rare times they would be nice or funny or kind and trying to not think about all the other times.

This summer was ESPECIALLY bad. Everyone said it was soiling the nest. They were just so mean. I planned a whole trip for us (asked for their input a lot but they wouldn’t give any so I tried to think of things they would like) and the whole time they acted like they were doing me a big favor just by being there.

They recently left for college and almost immediately it was clear that I would have to fight to have them contact me on any kind of regular basis. Something happened where they reached out to me panicked and then as soon as the panic passed, they became angry at me for responding because they felt I overreacted. (Called in the middle of the night with possible major health problem)

I just feel….done.

I was so tired, angry, sad. I wrote a long email and wished them a good semester but said I didn’t think we should talk until fall break. (Said I was always available for emergencies but other than that could always talk to their father.)

I was angry but also grieving. And now I’m just trying to figure everything out. Empty nesting is hard. But damn even harder when your kid has been a jerk for a while now and I just realized….this is not going to change. I either learn how to accept a relationship with my kid the way THEY do relationships—which to me feels very distant and cold. Or? Have no relationship at all? Keep fighting trying to have the close relationship I wish we had. But that hasn’t worked.

I think if my child had ALWAYS been this way I obviously would have accepted it by now. It’s that they were sweet and kind. But they changed, and they do seem very much ASD now when it comes to social connections—eye contact, touching, flat tone, flat appearing emotionally. But now in addition they are physically gone. I could at least see them before. I think unless they have a panic attack they don’t really care about talking to me at all.

So, I know I need to find a therapist to talk about this with. Empty nesting is hard but the ASD makes it even harder. Or maybe my kid is just a jerk and ASD has nothing to do with it. Or I’m a terrible mother? I’m not perfect. I know that. But I did try my best and have always loved and been proud of my child.

Can you lean on your husband here? For emotional support and understanding, or not so much?

You should post on the special needs board.

This is all hard and never ending. Pls get some respite and rejuvenation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m hurting here, so please no cruel responses. If you feel the need, please move on.

I have a child with high functioning ASD. Would probably have been labeled Aspergers but that diagnosis went away so it was SPCD—basically the difficulty with social relationships and communication. I should say they don’t actually accept this diagnosis and see it as a label they don’t want so that makes therapy harder.

Up until the middle teen years, while they were always quite shy out in the world, they were still extremely loving and funny with my husband and me.

That changed in later teen years and they became more and more introverted, started pulling away from us. I mean, that is normal teen stuff. But it just got worse and worse. There were some other issues I don’t want to mention here, but they kind of overtook the coldness, lack of affection. But there was therapy. It never helped much, I think partially because my child wouldn’t talk. But they always got great grades. No disciplinary stuff. Just always seemed cold, sarcastic, very introverted, no eye contact, hated touching, etc….had a small group of friends they liked so that was enough for them and if they were happy I was happy.

Over the last few years 16-18 they became more and more cold with me. One word responses. It’s like pulling teeth to have a conversation. My father is very similar to this, so it was not new to me, and it made me sad. It was very hard having a dad like this. And the idea that my only child would be like this was depressing. But I guess I held on to the way they used to be and hoped the coldness with us was a stage.

I began to feel that I was getting what I would call scraps of affection. Felt very sad and jealous when I’d see parents close to their kids. I know teens are supposed to be obnoxious but almost all the time? I had an almost too close relationship to my mom so it was very hard. But I kept holding on to the rare times they would be nice or funny or kind and trying to not think about all the other times.

This summer was ESPECIALLY bad. Everyone said it was soiling the nest. They were just so mean. I planned a whole trip for us (asked for their input a lot but they wouldn’t give any so I tried to think of things they would like) and the whole time they acted like they were doing me a big favor just by being there.

They recently left for college and almost immediately it was clear that I would have to fight to have them contact me on any kind of regular basis. Something happened where they reached out to me panicked and then as soon as the panic passed, they became angry at me for responding because they felt I overreacted. (Called in the middle of the night with possible major health problem)

I just feel….done.

I was so tired, angry, sad. I wrote a long email and wished them a good semester but said I didn’t think we should talk until fall break. (Said I was always available for emergencies but other than that could always talk to their father.)

I was angry but also grieving. And now I’m just trying to figure everything out. Empty nesting is hard. But damn even harder when your kid has been a jerk for a while now and I just realized….this is not going to change. I either learn how to accept a relationship with my kid the way THEY do relationships—which to me feels very distant and cold. Or? Have no relationship at all? Keep fighting trying to have the close relationship I wish we had. But that hasn’t worked.

I think if my child had ALWAYS been this way I obviously would have accepted it by now. It’s that they were sweet and kind. But they changed, and they do seem very much ASD now when it comes to social connections—eye contact, touching, flat tone, flat appearing emotionally. But now in addition they are physically gone. I could at least see them before. I think unless they have a panic attack they don’t really care about talking to me at all.

So, I know I need to find a therapist to talk about this with. Empty nesting is hard but the ASD makes it even harder. Or maybe my kid is just a jerk and ASD has nothing to do with it. Or I’m a terrible mother? I’m not perfect. I know that. But I did try my best and have always loved and been proud of my child.

Can you lean on your husband here? For emotional support and understanding, or not so much?

You should post on the special needs board.

This is all hard and never ending. Pls get some respite and rejuvenation.

Thanks. He feels bad and agrees that she is not being nice and that I’ve taken the brunt of it. He is not autistic, as far as I’m aware. But he is quiet and more of a “typical” guy when it comes to communication. So he’s just not as bothered by her lack of communication. He doesn’t like it and says that conversations with her just end up as him monologuing. But he hasn’t confronted her about any of this.

I saw that there is a junji ito horror anime show coming to tv in a few days. That is one of my daughter’s favorite artists. So I sent the link. I guess that’s sort of an opening to talk if she wants it. But I still really don’t know how to proceed with her in a way that one of our feelings won’t be hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read an old story a while ago, which pretty much said that the role of a mother is to be a stable figure. There was a picture of a mom making food on a kitchen table, and the kids would just pop in, grab something, and leave. There was no conversation. To me, sorry to say, you sound too needy. Let your kid be. If he contacts you in emergencies, you're fine, he's fine. Don't put your own emotional issues for him to solve. Don't send any long e-mails. It's not your role. Your role is to be there when needed and you have to figure out how to manage your own emotions. It's normal for teens/young adults not to want to be around parents, and it's highly likely that he senses your neediness.

Thanks. I’m OP. Personally, I think that would be a horrible relationship. It reminds me of The Giving Tree. I do have needs. I thought I taught them that we all have needs. I agree that teenagers and young adults often forget this about their parents. I know I did, even though my mom and I were close. (We also fought a lot.)

I think a big part of what brought this on was suppressing my needs for several years while I got treated badly. And then a realization that I don’t have to do that anymore.

I can always be a convenience store for my kid, but man that is sad. And it is no real relationship.

Everyone is assuming I have a son. I have a daughter.

DP. Your daughter thinks you are needy and trying to cling to her. She is trying to get away from feeling responsible for your emotions. The best you can do is get busy with whatever there is outside of her. Work, elderly parent, etc.

Yes, you should have your own life and not parentify your children. If neither of those ar happening, don’t worry.

No, an aspergers kid is not spending much time trying to interpret someone else’s feelings. They do however, dislike emotions.

[Anonymous]

Only do one ping or email a week. First semester of college should be lots of fun’s and everyone is busy meeting new people, finding friend groups.