People who don’t reciprocate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve learned from this thread that the non-reciprocaters get by by having a broad enough circle that they can churn through friends who all eventually dump them when they realize. The non-reciprocators think this is no big deal because they just rely on others to invite them. So it’s not really that they are indifferent to being invited places, they are just selfish and happy to continually lose friendships rather than reciprocate. Weird.

Your entire post is weird. Why would a friendship end because of non-reciprocation? I invite people because I want them at my house; not so I get a reciprocal invite back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

Op here. There are families who just never offer anything for the years we have known them. We know families whose kids we have hosted, taken out to eat, fed in our home so many times and the other family never invites or hosts or takes my kid out. I have one friend who I met a decade ago who happily accepts any and all invitations but has never once invited me to anything. She is a good guest and brings cookies and if we go out, always pays her share. She has never treated me to anything in the decade I have known her. We have probably hosted her in my home 50+ times.

You are talking about different things here.

First if you are inviting another kid out and paying their way you should understand this isn't that common. I have done that for a few of my kids' friends usually for a birthday but it has never occurred to me that they would then invite my kid for something. I did that stuff FOR my kid -- she wanted to go to the movies or to a nail salon for her birthday so we invited a couple of her friends and I foot the bill because it was for her birthday. I know not all families want to or can do stuff like that (I think being a parent of an only is a factor here) so it's never even crossed my mind that my kid doesn't get those invites. I just don't think that's something all families do.

as for the friend who never invites you to things -- does she invite anyone to things? It sounds to me like she is just more of a guest than a host. This is how it is -- not everyone hosts. If she's a good guest and gracious and brings a gift she's already doing better than a lot of people. If she is a good friend otherwise (listens to you and cares about you) the I just don't see why it matters if she has you to her home or not.

And since she pays her own way when you go out then why bother hosting at all if the lack of reciprocation bugs you. Just go out with her and no one hosts and everyone pays for themselves and then there's no unevenness. Fixating on her doing this thing that you do but that she clearly does not want to do is not a good way to conduct a friendship. You are not going to turn her into a host by getting mad at her for not hosting. She doesn't want to host. Let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

So you are saying you have friends who offer you literally nothing -- they are not kind and they don't ask about your life and they don't offer moral support or even just company. You invite them to your home and they sit there silently not talking but eating your food and then they leave and they don't thank you or in any way acknowledge your hospitality.

I don't get it. If you get nothing out of these friendships then they aren't friends! Don't talk to them anymore. But I suspect these friends actually offer you all kinds of things but you are just mad because you want invites and free meals and you keep thinking if you offer them enough invites and free meals they will reciprocate. Well they aren't going to. That's not how they show friendship or care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

So you are saying you have friends who offer you literally nothing -- they are not kind and they don't ask about your life and they don't offer moral support or even just company. You invite them to your home and they sit there silently not talking but eating your food and then they leave and they don't thank you or in any way acknowledge your hospitality.

I don't get it. If you get nothing out of these friendships then they aren't friends! Don't talk to them anymore. But I suspect these friends actually offer you all kinds of things but you are just mad because you want invites and free meals and you keep thinking if you offer them enough invites and free meals they will reciprocate. Well they aren't going to. That's not how they show friendship or care.

Of course I don’t have friends like that but it sounds like people in here do. I cut those people off as soon as they reveal their true selves. I’m not that desperate for any warm body to come to my events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

Op here. There are families who just never offer anything for the years we have known them. We know families whose kids we have hosted, taken out to eat, fed in our home so many times and the other family never invites or hosts or takes my kid out. I have one friend who I met a decade ago who happily accepts any and all invitations but has never once invited me to anything. She is a good guest and brings cookies and if we go out, always pays her share. She has never treated me to anything in the decade I have known her. We have probably hosted her in my home 50+ times.

You are talking about different things here.

First if you are inviting another kid out and paying their way you should understand this isn't that common. I have done that for a few of my kids' friends usually for a birthday but it has never occurred to me that they would then invite my kid for something. I did that stuff FOR my kid -- she wanted to go to the movies or to a nail salon for her birthday so we invited a couple of her friends and I foot the bill because it was for her birthday. I know not all families want to or can do stuff like that (I think being a parent of an only is a factor here) so it's never even crossed my mind that my kid doesn't get those invites. I just don't think that's something all families do.

as for the friend who never invites you to things -- does she invite anyone to things? It sounds to me like she is just more of a guest than a host. This is how it is -- not everyone hosts. If she's a good guest and gracious and brings a gift she's already doing better than a lot of people. If she is a good friend otherwise (listens to you and cares about you) the I just don't see why it matters if she has you to her home or not.

And since she pays her own way when you go out then why bother hosting at all if the lack of reciprocation bugs you. Just go out with her and no one hosts and everyone pays for themselves and then there's no unevenness. Fixating on her doing this thing that you do but that she clearly does not want to do is not a good way to conduct a friendship. You are not going to turn her into a host by getting mad at her for not hosting. She doesn't want to host. Let it go.

My OP was just a general vent. I was just giving examples but there are tens of different families I could think of. Of course we do have friends who reciprocate. There are people who seem ok with always taking and never giving. It isn’t necessarily a tally of my 10 to your 1. It is more like my 100 to your never.

I do think kids and families enjoy coming over. My kids have a lot of friends. Parents seem to trust us and have no problem having their kids come over, hang out, eat and go out with us.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't host looking for people to reciprocate. Often the people who don't reciprocate would be perfectly happy not to go to your house, dinner party, etc. My kids never asked for playdates and were happy at home w/ siblings or entertaining themselves. So if you don't like non-reciprocators, don't invite them anymore. Please, oh please, just stop posting on DCUM about it.

If you're perfectly happy not go to someone's house or dinner party...why don't you just decline, then? So odd. You seem to imply their invitations are an imposition. You can always say no.

Because I'm happy to go to the dinner party too. I'm fine either way. If you only want people to come to your parties, etc. who will reciprocate then stop inviting me after I don't reciprocate. Problem solved. Stop acting like reciprocation is a requirement...it's not. But, just so you know, you might lose some pretty good friends if you're going to keep score like this and insist on tit for tat. We have friends who host all the time. We have never hosted them at our house in 10 years or gone out to dinner. However, there are other ways to reciprocate and be a good friend. First, when they host, we always bring something (usually homemade that I know the hosts don't like making themselves). Second, we've helped this family in many other ways over the years...in a professional context, supporting their kid in various ways, etc. Plus, our kids have been very good friends for 10+ years. I'm pretty sure if you asked them, they would say we have had a strong, long-term friendship and they are glad they didn't cut us off because we don't like to host. So, I suggest you be a little more open-minded about friendships and what it means to be a good friend instead of looking for your next dinner invite.

I guess to me, part of the definition of a friend is someone you socialize with. You say you've never hosted them, nor gone out to dinner with them. If they stopped inviting you, would you ever see them socially? It's nice to help someone professionally, but then I would call that a professional relationship, not a friendship. I want to hang out and have fun with my friends. Even if I like someone, if we don't do that, I wouldn't call them a friend. Just someone I know and like.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

I am beginning to understand why you don't get invited to things.

I notice immediately if someone never asks me how I am or expresses an interest in my life. If I'm the only one asking questions and they are talking a lot about themselves but never asking about me I'm going to pick up on that right away. Not because I'm counting the seconds we each talk or keeping score but because I can tell that they aren't interested in me and not trying to get to know me. They aren't doing the things that people do when they want to know someone more. So I will assume they aren't very interested in me and likely not pursue a friendship with them.

That is different than what you are doing. If you are the same PP who said that she has a friend who comes to everything she is invited to and is a good guest and brings food or a gift but never invites back then you are ignoring all these things your friend is doing that show she cares (showing up when invited and talking and listening to you and even bringing cookies or a gift to share or just in gratitude) and insisting that she must reciprocate in the exact same way. That is score keeping. She's offering you lots of stuff but you will only accept reciprocation that takes the same form and is exactly equal. Well then she's not the friend for you because it doesn't sound like she is every going to host.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

Op here. I definitely don’t notice immediately. I just started feeling this and was thinking of all the people we know. There are the people who are very giving and we lost track and definitely don’t have any kind of tally. Then there are people we have known for 2-15 years who just never give anything.

And it doesn’t have to be a meal pick up, just a thoughtful gesture. They just accept and accept and accept.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, it's really uncomfortable for me to host and invite however I will 100% pay for everyone every time unless you fight me about it.