People who don’t reciprocate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

[Anonymous]

So what are families supposed to do when another family keeps asking for a playdate and we’re just not into the kid or family? Especially when it’s an only child who seems lonely? Or when the parent organizes parties and seems to want a good turnout? Should we decline them with a dumb excuse and then they’ll be upset? Or accept them and then they’ll be upset anyway since we’re not interested in reciprocating? Which one is worse to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't host looking for people to reciprocate. Often the people who don't reciprocate would be perfectly happy not to go to your house, dinner party, etc. My kids never asked for playdates and were happy at home w/ siblings or entertaining themselves. So if you don't like non-reciprocators, don't invite them anymore. Please, oh please, just stop posting on DCUM about it.

If you're perfectly happy not go to someone's house or dinner party...why don't you just decline, then? So odd. You seem to imply their invitations are an imposition. You can always say no.

Because I'm happy to go to the dinner party too. I'm fine either way. If you only want people to come to your parties, etc. who will reciprocate then stop inviting me after I don't reciprocate. Problem solved. Stop acting like reciprocation is a requirement...it's not. But, just so you know, you might lose some pretty good friends if you're going to keep score like this and insist on tit for tat. We have friends who host all the time. We have never hosted them at our house in 10 years or gone out to dinner. However, there are other ways to reciprocate and be a good friend. First, when they host, we always bring something (usually homemade that I know the hosts don't like making themselves). Second, we've helped this family in many other ways over the years...in a professional context, supporting their kid in various ways, etc. Plus, our kids have been very good friends for 10+ years. I'm pretty sure if you asked them, they would say we have had a strong, long-term friendship and they are glad they didn't cut us off because we don't like to host. So, I suggest you be a little more open-minded about friendships and what it means to be a good friend instead of looking for your next dinner invite.

What is wrong with you? Why do you never invite them over? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

I’ve learned from this thread that the non-reciprocaters get by by having a broad enough circle that they can churn through friends who all eventually dump them when they realize. The non-reciprocators think this is no big deal because they just rely on others to invite them. So it’s not really that they are indifferent to being invited places, they are just selfish and happy to continually lose friendships rather than reciprocate. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't host looking for people to reciprocate. Often the people who don't reciprocate would be perfectly happy not to go to your house, dinner party, etc. My kids never asked for playdates and were happy at home w/ siblings or entertaining themselves. So if you don't like non-reciprocators, don't invite them anymore. Please, oh please, just stop posting on DCUM about it.

If you're perfectly happy not go to someone's house or dinner party...why don't you just decline, then? So odd. You seem to imply their invitations are an imposition. You can always say no.

Because I'm happy to go to the dinner party too. I'm fine either way. If you only want people to come to your parties, etc. who will reciprocate then stop inviting me after I don't reciprocate. Problem solved. Stop acting like reciprocation is a requirement...it's not. But, just so you know, you might lose some pretty good friends if you're going to keep score like this and insist on tit for tat. We have friends who host all the time. We have never hosted them at our house in 10 years or gone out to dinner. However, there are other ways to reciprocate and be a good friend. First, when they host, we always bring something (usually homemade that I know the hosts don't like making themselves). Second, we've helped this family in many other ways over the years...in a professional context, supporting their kid in various ways, etc. Plus, our kids have been very good friends for 10+ years. I'm pretty sure if you asked them, they would say we have had a strong, long-term friendship and they are glad they didn't cut us off because we don't like to host. So, I suggest you be a little more open-minded about friendships and what it means to be a good friend instead of looking for your next dinner invite.

What is wrong with you? Why do you never invite them over? Serious question.

DP but here are a list of reasons we don't always reciprocate on hosting:

- We have a very small home that limits our ability to host certain sized families. We cannot realistically host a family with three teens for instance -- it would be cramped and they would be bored and there's really nowhere for them to go.

- We have some friends who I really like generally but who are not gracious guests. So like there is one family we like but early on we invited them over several times and they complained a lot about stuff we can't change (size of our house or amount of outdoor space among others) or seemed very uncomfortable and unhappy despite our efforts to be good hosts. That's just awkward for me as someone who cares a lot about my guests' comfort and eventually we stopped inviting because I couldn't figure out how to host them in a way they liked.

- We have a set of hosting things we are best at. We are good at hosting TV watch parties (sporting event or similar) and big meals that are not formal (like making a bunch of food and then people eat while mingling and chatting -- we don't have a large enough table to accommodate a sit down meal for more than 4-5 adults and maybe 3-4 small kids sitting at a kids table). Not everyone likes those events so if we invite you to those and you decline then we might never host you. It's fine but I can't magic up a different kind of home that will accommodate the kind of event you want me to host.

- Sometimes we don't invite over people who we know will stress out or make our kid with a sensory disorder stressed out. We know some people who are just extremely loud or not great with space and boundaries and we know from experience this can be really hard on our kid so we just don't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve learned from this thread that the non-reciprocaters get by by having a broad enough circle that they can churn through friends who all eventually dump them when they realize. The non-reciprocators think this is no big deal because they just rely on others to invite them. So it’s not really that they are indifferent to being invited places, they are just selfish and happy to continually lose friendships rather than reciprocate. Weird.

Nope. We host rarely and have a lot of friends who have never been to our house or only been once or twice. We have lots of longtime friends who still invite us over (and we do other things with them that don't involve hosting).

Our house is just not conducive to hosting. We can host certain families and certain activities but we are selective because we don't want it to be uncomfortable or stressful. People either get this or they don't. Our good friends all pretty much understand that we'd love to host more (we hosted a lot before kids and all our old friends came to those parties) but cannot. They don't hold it against us because they are reasonable.

We can always be counted on to bring something delicious to eat and a nice bottle of wine or a sixer of beer. And to be gracious guests. If that is not enough for someone then I guess yes that friendship won't last. But our social life is pretty full and most of our friends have been our friends for anywhere from 5-20 years so I don't think we are alienating people due to not hosting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what are families supposed to do when another family keeps asking for a playdate and we’re just not into the kid or family? Especially when it’s an only child who seems lonely? Or when the parent organizes parties and seems to want a good turnout? Should we decline them with a dumb excuse and then they’ll be upset? Or accept them and then they’ll be upset anyway since we’re not interested in reciprocating? Which one is worse to you?

Agree with this. Would you rather people declined your invitations if they know they can never reciprocate? Also what about all the times that people host and I actually do not feel like going but rally and go because I know they are expecting me or their kids will be disappointed if my kids don't show. In those cases I feel like I'm doing something for the host instead of the other way around. Being a guest is not always this wonderful experience -- sometimes it's a pain but you go and put on a smile and make small talk because you want your friend to have a successful party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

If you stopped issuing invitations and never saw your friends again because they never do anything in return were they ever really your friends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

Op here. There are families who just never offer anything for the years we have known them. We know families whose kids we have hosted, taken out to eat, fed in our home so many times and the other family never invites or hosts or takes my kid out. I have one friend who I met a decade ago who happily accepts any and all invitations but has never once invited me to anything. She is a good guest and brings cookies and if we go out, always pays her share. She has never treated me to anything in the decade I have known her. We have probably hosted her in my home 50+ times.