Dmv muslims, what do you think about what’s going on in Hamtramck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

Please stop making things up, this is not true. The animal is killed with a swift cut instantly to prevent any pain. Islam forbids torturing animals and requires kindness to all animals. Yes, we eat meat but it is no different than any other people, except vegetarians. I find it disturbing when people like you try to vilify Muslims for eating meat, the rules are similar to kosher. If you have a problem with Muslims eating meat then you should have a problem with anyone eating meat.

I'm not the poster you are responding to, but I want to address your points because I LIVE IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY. I have not only been here for multiple Eids, I see firsthand how animals are treated even as pets. Whether or not Islam forbids torturing animals and requires kindness to them, I have seen more cruelty to animals here (pets and street cats/dogs, not just Eid sacrifices) than I ever imagined was possible when living in the West. There is just not the same respect for animals at all.

Nobody here is vilifying Muslims for eating meat. But the reality of the way animals are treated here is shocking and disturbing. My friends and family in the US also refuse to hear this, saying it is "racist" to speak of the casual cruelty to animals, and this is so frustrating to me because they have never witnessed it firsthand or lived in a Muslim country.

I was considering starting a Youtube channel to show the pervasive animal cruelty, but my dh wisely reminded me that someone might try to hurt me for doing it, so I'm waiting until we leave.

To continue the previous post, to be fair, poor people and women are treated pretty badly too. The workers, "maids", and "bearers" are essentially slaves and aren't treated any better than the animals are treated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No to animal sacrifice in backyards

No to banning pride flags

--Muslim

Another Muslim-American here who agrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

Because God asked Abraham to sacrifice his own son to prove his devotion, and when Abraham did it, he found that a goat had been swapped in his son's place, as a reward from God for his devotion and willing to give up his most precious thing, his son, to God.

What I don't understand is how buying an animal a short time before Eid and then killing and eating it is a "sacrifice" at all. That animal's death isn't going to be a loss or pain to you, but will instead kick off a huge feast and celebration with family. So why not instead give up something actually meaningful to you to show your devotion to God?

Here's a Guardian cover of what Eid can look like: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/rivers-of-blood-dhaka-bangladesh-eid-animal-sacrifices

I've seen this in Karachi when it DIDN'T rain and the heads and piles of entrails and hooves were just thrown into the streets to rot in the heat. This is a real health hazard in countries where there is no formal waste disposal system and poor people live crowded into the cities. (Is that the "sacrifice")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

Because God asked Abraham to sacrifice his own son to prove his devotion, and when Abraham did it, he found that a goat had been swapped in his son's place, as a reward from God for his devotion and willing to give up his most precious thing, his son, to God.

What I don't understand is how buying an animal a short time before Eid and then killing and eating it is a "sacrifice" at all. That animal's death isn't going to be a loss or pain to you, but will instead kick off a huge feast and celebration with family. So why not instead give up something actually meaningful to you to show your devotion to God?

Here's a Guardian cover of what Eid can look like: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/rivers-of-blood-dhaka-bangladesh-eid-animal-sacrifices

I've seen this in Karachi when it DIDN'T rain and the heads and piles of entrails and hooves were just thrown into the streets to rot in the heat. This is a real health hazard in countries where there is no formal waste disposal system and poor people live crowded into the cities. (Is that the "sacrifice")

I forgot the link: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/rivers-of-blood-dhaka-bangladesh-eid-animal-sacrifices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

What the heck?!?!?!?

Why isn’t it done humanely?

This PP is just stirring up Islamophobia, that is not how it’s done. It is done humanely.

You think? Does this look humane to you? These are two clips from Youtube. Don't watch if you don't want to see animal cruelty. The jaunty music in the first clip, and the way they tie up the camel's one leg is sickening to me; the fact that kids are gathered around in the second clip is super disturbing.

They do this twice a year for Eid in the Muslim country where I am living for my job:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SQm8VgWic7c
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3irz4tpDL5E

Tell me, why is it OK for kids to see this kind of thing and respond this way in the name of religion, while if you heard that some teens were doing the same thing for kicks to an animal in their garage or whatever your reaction would be quite different? Remember Don't F*** with Cats on Netflix? What that guy was doing isn't much different from the way all of these animals are killed and treated.

I have asked all of my students and Muslim colleagues in this country to never, ever speak to me about their Eid animals. It really bothers me to hear them speak so excitedly about Eid, and to see children's faces glow as if waiting for Christmas morning or something when I know that this is what they are doing in their celebration.

In the poor Muslim country that I was born in, poor families ate meat just twice a year: during each Eid holiday. In Islam, you are required to share the slaughtered meat with poorer neighbors and family members. I bet many of those kids watching in the video are about to have meat after months of going without. These are not western countries with their huge animal slaughterhouses and daily meat consumption. Many of these Muslim countries are poor and the Eid holiday is the only time of the year that they get to eat meat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

So it's a symbol, not a sacrifice? Why not do it in the spirit of what your ancestors meant "sacrifice" to mean and give up something you care about or need that will hurt a little bit to lose? (Like Abraham being willing to give up his own son, which is the story that inspires this whole bloody show today).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

So it's a symbol, not a sacrifice? Why not do it in the spirit of what your ancestors meant "sacrifice" to mean and give up something you care about or need that will hurt a little bit to lose? (Like Abraham being willing to give up his own son, which is the story that inspires this whole bloody show today).

People out to Eid there is a 30 days of fasting, which is a personal sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

So it's a symbol, not a sacrifice? Why not do it in the spirit of what your ancestors meant "sacrifice" to mean and give up something you care about or need that will hurt a little bit to lose? (Like Abraham being willing to give up his own son, which is the story that inspires this whole bloody show today).

People out to Eid there is a 30 days of fasting, which is a personal sacrifice.

No, that's only the Eid that ends Ramadan. There's the second Eid that starts tomorrow, Tuesday, June 27, and there is no 30 day fast before it. If anything, more people than usual were out at restaurants the day before the June Eid: on Monday evening we were at the mall and it was super crowded with locals, with restaurant seating full.

[Anonymous]

There is a slaughterhouse in Alexandria City. I think it’s inhumane and just invites issues.

Reenactment isn’t necessary

Oh and I am not sure where people get these ideas that conservative muslims are somehow liberals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

So it's a symbol, not a sacrifice? Why not do it in the spirit of what your ancestors meant "sacrifice" to mean and give up something you care about or need that will hurt a little bit to lose? (Like Abraham being willing to give up his own son, which is the story that inspires this whole bloody show today).

I don't know what meaning of the sacrifice is to Muslims specifically, but I'm sure you could easily google if you had a genuine, open-minded curiosity toward learning about others' traditions.

Look, religion is ALL symbols. It's faith and ascribed meaning and ritual and tradition. If a particular practice doesn't resonate with you, just move on. You're never going to "win" an argument about what form of spiritual practice is right or wrong or best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

No! It’s a lamb that is eaten in delicious stews and roasts. As a Muslim, I hate the tradition but I have to admit that it’s delicious!

Why do they do this ritual sacrifice? I mean, what's the theological basis for it? I know the Greeks and Romans did this in their religious ceremonies, but that was like 2,000 years ago.

It's a foreign concept to many Americans, but it's practiced by other groups too. When I lived in Lubavitcher Brooklyn, I remember a city street was closed off every year so truckloads of chickens could be sacrificed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/nyregion/a-raw-deal-for-chickens-as-jews-atone-for-sins.html

Think of it a little like paying tithe, except instead of giving money, you're giving what your ancestors would have valued and given, ie., livestock.

So it's a symbol, not a sacrifice? Why not do it in the spirit of what your ancestors meant "sacrifice" to mean and give up something you care about or need that will hurt a little bit to lose? (Like Abraham being willing to give up his own son, which is the story that inspires this whole bloody show today).

I don't know what meaning of the sacrifice is to Muslims specifically, but I'm sure you could easily google if you had a genuine, open-minded curiosity toward learning about others' traditions.

Look, religion is ALL symbols. It's faith and ascribed meaning and ritual and tradition. If a particular practice doesn't resonate with you, just move on. You're never going to "win" an argument about what form of spiritual practice is right or wrong or best.

It was a rhetorical question.

I live in a Muslim country. I've seen the way animals are treated firsthand, and I have seen Eid sacrifice. I have discussed animal welfare issues with many Muslims here.

Eid begins on Tuesday evening on June 27. Maybe I should figure out how to upload short video footage, and then you can all tell me that what is being shown is "humane."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope other cities electing their city councils take note. The councils shouldn’t be majority anyone with the controversial history.

Ha ha ha, that is hilarious. What group doesn't have a controversial history? How would you prevent people from running?

Don’t vote for them