Dmv muslims, what do you think about what’s going on in Hamtramck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

Please stop making things up, this is not true. The animal is killed with a swift cut instantly to prevent any pain. Islam forbids torturing animals and requires kindness to all animals. Yes, we eat meat but it is no different than any other people, except vegetarians. I find it disturbing when people like you try to vilify Muslims for eating meat, the rules are similar to kosher. If you have a problem with Muslims eating meat then you should have a problem with anyone eating meat.

They're not villifying people for eating meat. They're expressing their disgust with slitting an animal's throat in public.

Last I checked, your backyard is not public. And seriously, the VAST majority of Muslims in this country are not killing animals in their backyard. Just because it’s legal in a few places and even fewer families partake, does not mean Muslims go around torturing animals in public. You should maybe go to factory and see how animals are actually killed.

[Anonymous]

Hamtramck resident here. A few clarifications:

1) No one is allowed to slaughter animals in their backyards, as a matter of fact, it must be enclosed out of the eyes of the neighbors, must apply for a permit from the city, after the fact an inspector will come and insure the sanitation of the area and the waste must be disposed of appropriately.

2) We did not ban the pride flag, that was just the media spin. We banned all flags which happen to include pride flag that aren't: country, state, city, county and powmia. This is done because the city already has several interests from people from various sides wanting their flag posted (including Islamic holidays). This resolution that was approved disallows all on city owned properties. You can still display any flag you want on your private property.

Slaughtering in Islam requires a cut through the jugular vein, carotid artery, and windpipe with a very sharp knife and not in front of other animals. It was scientifically proven that brings on the lowest amount of pain, there are many research papers on this aspect including that stunning an animal in the modern sense actually causes more pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamtramck is now majority Muslim and related middle eastern / south/west Asian cultures.

They are going to run the city in a way that accomodates the local majority culture. Same has how Bethesda accommodates car drivers.

If that offends you, bring it up at the next powwow with the original native residents.

Their laws have to be constitutional. No one is going to run a city just in cultural laws.

Of course. And potatoes have eyes. What's your point?

Seriously, that the city leadership is setting themselves up to be sued. They made no attempt to hide that this change in behavior (the flag was flown the previous year) is simply because they want to reflect the religious values of the neighborhood.

That's not good enough as they will soon find out. Any other time it wouldn't have gone so far, except outsiders have been pushing to rouse up feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think tbis is a coincidence? The Republican Party is making a play for the Muslim vote in MI and VA.

This is what you don’t get. It’s not like republicans made Muslims conservative. It’s that Muslims and conservatives share similar values. Majority of Muslims voted democrat. But now that progressives are forcing their values on Muslims, Muslims feel threatened and are voting republican. The problem is with progressives shoving their values down down everyone’s throats. I am an economically liberal socially conservative muslim. I believe in Medicare for all, unions, breaking up monopolies, an anti-war, etc. I am pro choice and support gay marriage. But now that progressives are pushing their values on my kids in schools, I am no longer voting democrat (not going to vote for republicans either). Democrats only have themselves to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think tbis is a coincidence? The Republican Party is making a play for the Muslim vote in MI and VA.

This is what you don’t get. It’s not like republicans made Muslims conservative. It’s that Muslims and conservatives share similar values. Majority of Muslims voted democrat. But now that progressives are forcing their values on Muslims, Muslims feel threatened and are voting republican. The problem is with progressives shoving their values down down everyone’s throats. I am an economically liberal socially conservative muslim. I believe in Medicare for all, unions, breaking up monopolies, an anti-war, etc. I am pro choice and support gay marriage. But now that progressives are pushing their values on my kids in schools, I am no longer voting democrat (not going to vote for republicans either). Democrats only have themselves to blame.

What you don't get is that cooler heads would have told these Muslims that they can't just run roughshod over their neighbors who are not like them. The same grace that they wanted when they first arrived. That this is the hallmark of America. It is the louder voices these day who argue that they get to strike out at things that are not of their religion. That this behavior is even possible in a municipality.
NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think tbis is a coincidence? The Republican Party is making a play for the Muslim vote in MI and VA.

This is what you don’t get. It’s not like republicans made Muslims conservative. It’s that Muslims and conservatives share similar values. Majority of Muslims voted democrat. But now that progressives are forcing their values on Muslims, Muslims feel threatened and are voting republican. The problem is with progressives shoving their values down down everyone’s throats. I am an economically liberal socially conservative muslim. I believe in Medicare for all, unions, breaking up monopolies, an anti-war, etc. I am pro choice and support gay marriage. But now that progressives are pushing their values on my kids in schools, I am no longer voting democrat (not going to vote for republicans either). Democrats only have themselves to blame.

What you don't get is that cooler heads would have told these Muslims that they can't just run roughshod over their neighbors who are not like them. The same grace that they wanted when they first arrived. That this is the hallmark of America. It is the louder voices these day who argue that they get to strike out at things that are not of their religion. That this behavior is even possible in a municipality.
NP

Your response has nothing to do with my comment. I was commenting on how PP said that whatever is happening is no surprise because republicans are courting Muslims. It’s as if Muslims don’t have their own values and brains and are just following republicans. That’s simply not true. The reason that Muslims are voting republican is because of what progressives are doing and not because republicans are courting them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you really think tbis is a coincidence? The Republican Party is making a play for the Muslim vote in MI and VA.

This is what you don’t get. It’s not like republicans made Muslims conservative. It’s that Muslims and conservatives share similar values. Majority of Muslims voted democrat. But now that progressives are forcing their values on Muslims, Muslims feel threatened and are voting republican. The problem is with progressives shoving their values down down everyone’s throats. I am an economically liberal socially conservative muslim. I believe in Medicare for all, unions, breaking up monopolies, an anti-war, etc. I am pro choice and support gay marriage. But now that progressives are pushing their values on my kids in schools, I am no longer voting democrat (not going to vote for republicans either). Democrats only have themselves to blame.

What you don't get is that cooler heads would have told these Muslims that they can't just run roughshod over their neighbors who are not like them. The same grace that they wanted when they first arrived. That this is the hallmark of America. It is the louder voices these day who argue that they get to strike out at things that are not of their religion. That this behavior is even possible in a municipality.
NP

Your response has nothing to do with my comment. I was commenting on how PP said that whatever is happening is no surprise because republicans are courting Muslims. It’s as if Muslims don’t have their own values and brains and are just following republicans. That’s simply not true. The reason that Muslims are voting republican is because of what progressives are doing and not because republicans are courting them.

Oh you mean the GOP that was so recently anti-Muslim has decided to give you a seat at the table because it serves their ends?

I suppose that is flattering to assume inclusion and finding that you have soooo much in common with them (conservative values etc.) Too bad Muslims are little voting blocks the GOP can use to brownish their agenda. Meanwhile, the backbone of their support comes from yhe Evangelicals for whom they will bend over backwards to support. And what do Evangelicals think of Muslims?
https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/responses/confronting-christian-islamophobia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

I live in a Muslim country for my job. They routinely sacrifice animals for the Eid holidays; there are two Eid holidays per year. At least one of the Eid sacrifices has to do with God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. I don't know if the second, summer Eid celebrates the same thing, but they do also sacrifice animals. Coincidentally, Eid begins on June 27, so we've been talking about this in our house.

I teach at an international school and we have a lot of kids from the host country and surrounding Muslim countries in addition to the Western expats. I had to ask my students never to talk to me about their Eid animals and how they are treated and killed because it upsets me so much. What happens is that a family will go buy a lamb or sheep or goat or camel, treat it what they think is well for a few weeks, and then kill it with the family watching. On the one hand, some Muslims here have told me the animals' deaths are "painless", but on the other hand I've heard a lot of kids (who don't understand yet how this is interpreted by non-Muslims) talking about what it actually looked like and how the animal was actually handled. I find it sickening and won't describe it here.

In wealthier areas of the Middle East, this takes place among families and is largely not visible to non-Muslims. You won't see anything to do with it as an expat in Dubai, for example, though it is happening behind the scenes. In nearby places in the region that are poorer and don't have or cater to a Western expat community, like Karachi, where I've also spent time, one sees heads and piles of innards rotting in the streets around this time (I have photos I took of this, but don't know how to post them and it probably isn't appropriate here, but it is gruesome).

I had no idea this was allowed in the US. I'm kind of appalled it happens there. I do see a culture of callousness and what we would call casual cruelty and disregard of animal welfare in general (not just the Eid sacrifices, but even the way street cats and pets are treated here), and I do think it is related. I do not think it is a good thing to expose children to violent, bloody killing of an animal during a fun celebration.

Muslims need a mass re-education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

What the heck?!?!?!?

Why isn’t it done humanely?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

What the heck?!?!?!?

Why isn’t it done humanely?

This PP is just stirring up Islamophobia, that is not how it’s done. It is done humanely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hamtramck resident here. A few clarifications:

1) No one is allowed to slaughter animals in their backyards, as a matter of fact, it must be enclosed out of the eyes of the neighbors, must apply for a permit from the city, after the fact an inspector will come and insure the sanitation of the area and the waste must be disposed of appropriately.

2) We did not ban the pride flag, that was just the media spin. We banned all flags which happen to include pride flag that aren't: country, state, city, county and powmia. This is done because the city already has several interests from people from various sides wanting their flag posted (including Islamic holidays). This resolution that was approved disallows all on city owned properties. You can still display any flag you want on your private property.

Slaughtering in Islam requires a cut through the jugular vein, carotid artery, and windpipe with a very sharp knife and not in front of other animals. It was scientifically proven that brings on the lowest amount of pain, there are many research papers on this aspect including that stunning an animal in the modern sense actually causes more pain.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/06/23/hamtramck-mayor-pan-african-flag/70351354007/

“If we fly that pride flag — we would see so many flags around the city with weird colors, like black, with messages people don’t like,” he said Friday. “If I allow you, I have to allow everybody else and … the majority of people here do not support the Pride flag and they would fly their own flags in response.”

Sound like the mayor is trying to keep his majority city from going full on anti-LGBTQ+ visually. Good luck with that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

What the heck?!?!?!?

Why isn’t it done humanely?

This PP is just stirring up Islamophobia, that is not how it’s done. It is done humanely.

You think? Does this look humane to you? These are two clips from Youtube. Don't watch if you don't want to see animal cruelty. The jaunty music in the first clip, and the way they tie up the camel's one leg is sickening to me; the fact that kids are gathered around in the second clip is super disturbing.

They do this twice a year for Eid in the Muslim country where I am living for my job:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SQm8VgWic7c
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3irz4tpDL5E

Tell me, why is it OK for kids to see this kind of thing and respond this way in the name of religion, while if you heard that some teens were doing the same thing for kicks to an animal in their garage or whatever your reaction would be quite different? Remember Don't F*** with Cats on Netflix? What that guy was doing isn't much different from the way all of these animals are killed and treated.

I have asked all of my students and Muslim colleagues in this country to never, ever speak to me about their Eid animals. It really bothers me to hear them speak so excitedly about Eid, and to see children's faces glow as if waiting for Christmas morning or something when I know that this is what they are doing in their celebration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hamtramck resident here. A few clarifications:

1) No one is allowed to slaughter animals in their backyards, as a matter of fact, it must be enclosed out of the eyes of the neighbors, must apply for a permit from the city, after the fact an inspector will come and insure the sanitation of the area and the waste must be disposed of appropriately.

2) We did not ban the pride flag, that was just the media spin. We banned all flags which happen to include pride flag that aren't: country, state, city, county and powmia. This is done because the city already has several interests from people from various sides wanting their flag posted (including Islamic holidays). This resolution that was approved disallows all on city owned properties. You can still display any flag you want on your private property.

Slaughtering in Islam requires a cut through the jugular vein, carotid artery, and windpipe with a very sharp knife and not in front of other animals. It was scientifically proven that brings on the lowest amount of pain, there are many research papers on this aspect including that stunning an animal in the modern sense actually causes more pain.

1. citation? link to "scientific proof"? And proof that the majority of backyard grandpas or dads are able to even duplicate the conditions in your "scientific study"?

2. I live in a Muslim country. The truth is that even if your "scientific proof" of the killing is accurate, the majority of these animals are not slaughtered under ideal conditions by a vet or even by an experienced butcher. They are hacked at by some male family member with no "scientific" understanding of animal anatomy. I have heard many Muslim boys gleefully discussing the cries, fear, and struggles of the animals their dad or grandpa killed that Eid: it is not a clinical, respectful killing. Plenty of animals don't die quickly because Grandpa doesn't make a deep or accurate enough cut, and plenty of animals really suffer.

3. I won't get into the way most of these animals are treated in the weeks before their slaughter by the families that purchase them for Eid. Most of these families are not farmers and don't really understand anything about animal welfare or how to make the species they purchased comfortable. The ways the Eid animals are restrained and "played with" by the children I saw in Karachi broke my heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, what exactly is “backyard animal sacrifice”? Killing your dog and roasting it?

I live in a Muslim country for my job. They routinely sacrifice animals for the Eid holidays; there are two Eid holidays per year. At least one of the Eid sacrifices has to do with God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. I don't know if the second, summer Eid celebrates the same thing, but they do also sacrifice animals. Coincidentally, Eid begins on June 27, so we've been talking about this in our house.

I teach at an international school and we have a lot of kids from the host country and surrounding Muslim countries in addition to the Western expats. I had to ask my students never to talk to me about their Eid animals and how they are treated and killed because it upsets me so much. What happens is that a family will go buy a lamb or sheep or goat or camel, treat it what they think is well for a few weeks, and then kill it with the family watching. On the one hand, some Muslims here have told me the animals' deaths are "painless", but on the other hand I've heard a lot of kids (who don't understand yet how this is interpreted by non-Muslims) talking about what it actually looked like and how the animal was actually handled. I find it sickening and won't describe it here.

In wealthier areas of the Middle East, this takes place among families and is largely not visible to non-Muslims. You won't see anything to do with it as an expat in Dubai, for example, though it is happening behind the scenes. In nearby places in the region that are poorer and don't have or cater to a Western expat community, like Karachi, where I've also spent time, one sees heads and piles of innards rotting in the streets around this time (I have photos I took of this, but don't know how to post them and it probably isn't appropriate here, but it is gruesome).

I had no idea this was allowed in the US. I'm kind of appalled it happens there. I do see a culture of callousness and what we would call casual cruelty and disregard of animal welfare in general (not just the Eid sacrifices, but even the way street cats and pets are treated here), and I do think it is related. I do not think it is a good thing to expose children to violent, bloody killing of an animal during a fun celebration.

Just wondering, what did you have for dinner yesterday?
At your most recent wedding or birthday party?
Were you celebrating life over a pile of animal carcasses? Drinking the nectar of a raped cow whose baby was murdered?

I'm a vegan, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband grew up in a Muslim family and he still talks about how traumatizing it was to see a lamb sacrificed as a child. I’m a meat eater and still find meat factories traumatizing. Animals to be eaten are generally not treated well.

At least the Muslims got their hands dirty and weren't hypocrites about it.

It’s not even just that. It’s the method.

The animal’s neck is slit, not enough to kill it, just enough to make it bleed. Then the alive animal lays there until it is completely bled out with spectators celebrating.

A slow, torturous death. Think about that when you’re eating someplace with halal meat.

Please stop making things up, this is not true. The animal is killed with a swift cut instantly to prevent any pain. Islam forbids torturing animals and requires kindness to all animals. Yes, we eat meat but it is no different than any other people, except vegetarians. I find it disturbing when people like you try to vilify Muslims for eating meat, the rules are similar to kosher. If you have a problem with Muslims eating meat then you should have a problem with anyone eating meat.

I'm not the poster you are responding to, but I want to address your points because I LIVE IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY. I have not only been here for multiple Eids, I see firsthand how animals are treated even as pets. Whether or not Islam forbids torturing animals and requires kindness to them, I have seen more cruelty to animals here (pets and street cats/dogs, not just Eid sacrifices) than I ever imagined was possible when living in the West. There is just not the same respect for animals at all.

Nobody here is vilifying Muslims for eating meat. But the reality of the way animals are treated here is shocking and disturbing. My friends and family in the US also refuse to hear this, saying it is "racist" to speak of the casual cruelty to animals, and this is so frustrating to me because they have never witnessed it firsthand or lived in a Muslim country.

I was considering starting a Youtube channel to show the pervasive animal cruelty, but my dh wisely reminded me that someone might try to hurt me for doing it, so I'm waiting until we leave.