Why do you enter an advanced academics discussion if your kid is not smart enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because we are taxpayers and have students in FCPS that recognize that this is a zero sum game. Our kids are affected by these programs even if they aren't in them. And, most kids in AAP are not "gifted individuals".

+1 Because your supposedly advanced child's academic program is taking away from my normal child's education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are taxpayers and have students in FCPS that recognize that this is a zero sum game. Our kids are affected by these programs even if they aren't in them. And, most kids in AAP are not "gifted individuals".

Every parent can say the same. They’re taxpayers too, and usually they pay more taxes than you. And their kids need an appropriate education too.

It’s that your kids don’t qualify so you want to drown everyone else.

Nailed it right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are taxpayers and have students in FCPS that recognize that this is a zero sum game. Our kids are affected by these programs even if they aren't in them. And, most kids in AAP are not "gifted individuals".

+1 Because your supposedly advanced child's academic program is taking away from my normal child's education.

How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

You seem to misunderstand the issue. It's more that some parents want to control how selection works in order to improve their odds. It isn't about ability. They feel it's fine to buy test answers is a fine way to define merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

You seem to misunderstand the issue. It's more that some parents want to control how selection works in order to improve their odds. It isn't about ability. They feel it's fine to buy test answers is a fine way to define merit.

I’m not misunderstanding anything. You are. You keep getting hung up on this idea that gifted education = TJ = answer theft.

Even if it true that some people stole answers to the TJ test, that can’t be everyone. Additionally, TJ was top ranked in all kinds of stem activities. Will you now say that parents bought the top placements too? In everything there are people who don’t deserve to be there, but you don’t burn down the forest to get read of a flea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

While there appear to be some schools were prep is common, I am guessing that the in-pool scores over 140 are high prep areas, there are plenty of schools were prep is not common. DS scored 135 on the NNAT and CogAT, no prep. He was accepted into AAP. I don’t think any of his friends prepped. I doubt that there is a ton of prep at Title 1 schools and near Title 1 schools.

People on this board tend to think that the patterns posted here apply to the entire County but they probably don’t.

Not to mention that there are a lot of seats for AAP so it isn’t a competition. More likely then not, kids not being accepted are kids with GBRS issues and not score issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

You seem to misunderstand the issue. It's more that some parents want to control how selection works in order to improve their odds. It isn't about ability. They feel it's fine to buy test answers is a fine way to define merit.

I’m not misunderstanding anything. You are. You keep getting hung up on this idea that gifted education = TJ = answer theft.

Even if it true that some people stole answers to the TJ test, that can’t be everyone. Additionally, TJ was top ranked in all kinds of stem activities. Will you now say that parents bought the top placements too? In everything there are people who don’t deserve to be there, but you don’t burn down the forest to get read of a flea.

The perfectly average kids who only got in because of years of prep and test buying seem to feel it was worthwhile. It seems like their test was measuring the wrong things or maybe it's much easier than some wish to let on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

You seem to misunderstand the issue. It's more that some parents want to control how selection works in order to improve their odds. It isn't about ability. They feel it's fine to buy test answers is a fine way to define merit.

Agree the opportunity hording and the extremes so many are willing to go to are just gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

You seem to misunderstand the issue. It's more that some parents want to control how selection works in order to improve their odds. It isn't about ability. They feel it's fine to buy test answers is a fine way to define merit.

I’m not misunderstanding anything. You are. You keep getting hung up on this idea that gifted education = TJ = answer theft.

Even if it true that some people stole answers to the TJ test, that can’t be everyone. Additionally, TJ was top ranked in all kinds of stem activities. Will you now say that parents bought the top placements too? In everything there are people who don’t deserve to be there, but you don’t burn down the forest to get read of a flea.

The perfectly average kids who only got in because of years of prep and test buying seem to feel it was worthwhile. It seems like their test was measuring the wrong things or maybe it's much easier than some wish to let on.

I knew a perfectly average person once, who’d say ‘if I wanted to, if I put in the effort, I’d do this, and I’d do that!’ Guess what they couldn’t do $hit, so all they could do was brag about what they would do if they only tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

They aren't open to everyone based on need. There are huge overlaps between the bottom half of the kids in AAP and the top gen ed kids who weren't admitted. There are some kids who have high test scores, have high GBRS, and are working above grade level in all subjects, yet get rejected for AAP. How is AAP open to those kids? Or are you suggesting that they don't need AAP and couldn't keep up with the material?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

They aren't open to everyone based on need. There are huge overlaps between the bottom half of the kids in AAP and the top gen ed kids who weren't admitted. There are some kids who have high test scores, have high GBRS, and are working above grade level in all subjects, yet get rejected for AAP. How is AAP open to those kids? Or are you suggesting that they don't need AAP and couldn't keep up with the material?

More likely then not, those kids are at a school with lots of high test scores and high GBRS and they have similar peers in their classroom. That Gen Ed class looks very different and operates differently then a kid at a school where the average test score for AAP is 10 points lower. The high test score, high GBRS not admitted kid is probably in a Gen Ed class where there are fewer degrees of difference between the kids so the Teacher can differentiate more then the kid at a Title 1 school where the Teacher has kids who don’t speak English, kids who are 2 years behind, kids who are 1 year behind, kids barely on grade level, and kids who are a little bit ahead.

The parents who seem to fret most about their kids not being in AAP are at the high SES schools were AAP is some type of badge of honor or the parents who wanted a bigger house for less money and bought into a Title 1 school boundary and have just realized why that house was so much cheaper then the house by the MC or UMC schools where the level of differentiation is huge.

The overlap you are worried about is not really the problem you think it is at most schools. Plenty of kids do well in Advanced Math or LIII pull outs in the Gen Ed classroom. They don’t need AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I pay taxes and I think you should pay for private/private supplementation instead. I send my kids to private starting preK, never did any testing, but DH went to TJ.

I don't understand this logic. The cost of an AAP child is not different than the cost of a gen ed child. I know people are upset about busing, but that has to be a fairly insignificant cost in the school board budget. I don't think an unfair amount of your tax dollars are going to AAP.

I dare say there isn't one other group of specialized instruction to which you'd apply this thought (ESOL, special ed, alternative school, etc.).

What about the amount of money that goes into having two different curriculums, to having additional classrooms and building out the centers, the time and effort that goes into testing and evaluation, etc.?