Why do you enter an advanced academics discussion if your kid is not smart enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What is your source for the information that most people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids? I have three kids, all of whom are very bright but one who is extremely gifted. I am adamantly opposed to AAP.

Poor reading comprehension. ‘Most’ is different from ‘everyone’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

We all pay taxes for these programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because we are taxpayers and have students in FCPS that recognize that this is a zero sum game. Our kids are affected by these programs even if they aren't in them. And, most kids in AAP are not "gifted individuals".

This when you pull off the top 20% of a class, all of the sudden the middle that teachers teach to is a lot lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Poor analogies. Medical boards and the bar exam are designed to ensure individuals entering these professions have minimal knowledge and ability so that they don't harm patients or clients. They are also required to take ongoing training in their field to ensure those minimal standards. Of course doctors and lawyers study for those exams -- they are the single most important exams of their careers and the culmination of a lot of studying, time, and money.

A better analogy would be the the MCAT or LSAT for admission to professional schools. And yes, people spend money to prep for those as well. I actually used to teach LSAT prep classes. Even the though LSAT supposedly tests ability, not knowledge, it's a fairly easy test to greatly improve your score on via test prep. I had students who would come in getting 10% on the logic portion of the test exam, and get that up to 70-80% just using test-taking techniques to help them decode the questions.

Having taken the LSAT, taught it, attended law school, and worked in the legal industry for 20 years, I can assure you -- the LSAT does not test anyone's aptitude for lawyering. It does, however, screen out a lot of people who lack the money to take test prep courses to boost their scores, or ensure that these people attend lower ranked law schools and don't get access to certain employment opportunities.

If someone isn’t dedicated enough to lawyering to put money on a credit card or get a 2nd job to pay for prep courses, they’re not a good fit for top law schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are taxpayers and have students in FCPS that recognize that this is a zero sum game. Our kids are affected by these programs even if they aren't in them. And, most kids in AAP are not "gifted individuals".

This when you pull off the top 20% of a class, all of the sudden the middle that teachers teach to is a lot lower.

So you want me to sacrifice my children so the average of your kids class is higher?


How about you sacrifice your children so the average of my kids’ class is higher!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

We all pay taxes for these programs.

We ALL pay taxes for ALL programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What is your source for the information that most people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids? I have three kids, all of whom are very bright but one who is extremely gifted. I am adamantly opposed to AAP.

Poor reading comprehension. ‘Most’ is different from ‘everyone’.

Poor reading comprehension on your part. What I was asking was your source for the conclusion in your post that most of the people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids.

[Anonymous]

In my experience, the people with completely average kids couldn't care less about AAP. The people most strongly opposed to AAP seem to fall into one of these categories:

1. Parents of the gen ed kids who are gifted in one subject but average in the other. They may be denied access to advanced language arts or advanced math, even though their kids would be more highly qualified for that subject than most kids in AAP.

2. Parents of the many bright kids stuck in gen ed who are indistinguishable from the bottom half of the kids admitted to AAP.

3. Parents of highly gifted kids in AAP who are bored out of their minds from the watering down of the program.

4. Social justice warriors who don't like the demographics of the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What is your source for the information that most people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids? I have three kids, all of whom are very bright but one who is extremely gifted. I am adamantly opposed to AAP.

Poor reading comprehension. ‘Most’ is different from ‘everyone’.

Poor reading comprehension on your part. What I was asking was your source for the conclusion in your post that most of the people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids.

If your reading comprehension was adequate, you wouldn’t bring yourself as an omnipotent example. Who cares what you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What is your source for the information that most people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids? I have three kids, all of whom are very bright but one who is extremely gifted. I am adamantly opposed to AAP.

Poor reading comprehension. ‘Most’ is different from ‘everyone’.

Poor reading comprehension on your part. What I was asking was your source for the conclusion in your post that most of the people who are most adamantly against AAP have traditionally average kids.

If your reading comprehension was adequate, you wouldn’t bring yourself as an omnipotent example. Who cares what you think?

You asked the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, the people with completely average kids couldn't care less about AAP. The people most strongly opposed to AAP seem to fall into one of these categories:

1. Parents of the gen ed kids who are gifted in one subject but average in the other. They may be denied access to advanced language arts or advanced math, even though their kids would be more highly qualified for that subject than most kids in AAP.

2. Parents of the many bright kids stuck in gen ed who are indistinguishable from the bottom half of the kids admitted to AAP.

3. Parents of highly gifted kids in AAP who are bored out of their minds from the watering down of the program.

4. Social justice warriors who don't like the demographics of the program.

Very insightful breakdown. I think the first category is one that deserves attention form policy makers. Mathematically gifted kids who are average readers and writers really get screwed unless their parents are paying for outside enrichment from a private company like AoPS or RSM. Category 4 can go to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, the people with completely average kids couldn't care less about AAP. The people most strongly opposed to AAP seem to fall into one of these categories:

1. Parents of the gen ed kids who are gifted in one subject but average in the other. They may be denied access to advanced language arts or advanced math, even though their kids would be more highly qualified for that subject than most kids in AAP.

2. Parents of the many bright kids stuck in gen ed who are indistinguishable from the bottom half of the kids admitted to AAP.

3. Parents of highly gifted kids in AAP who are bored out of their minds from the watering down of the program.

4. Social justice warriors who don't like the demographics of the program.

Very insightful breakdown. I think the first category is one that deserves attention form policy makers. Mathematically gifted kids who are average readers and writers really get screwed unless their parents are paying for outside enrichment from a private company like AoPS or RSM. Category 4 can go to hell.

Can't the kids in the first category qualify for advanced math or Level 3 pullouts? Two or three kids from the gen ed classroom come into my DC's AAP class for math. IME, the Level 3 pull-outs are more language arts based, so the advanced LA kids can access the L4 curriculum there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, the people with completely average kids couldn't care less about AAP. The people most strongly opposed to AAP seem to fall into one of these categories:

1. Parents of the gen ed kids who are gifted in one subject but average in the other. They may be denied access to advanced language arts or advanced math, even though their kids would be more highly qualified for that subject than most kids in AAP.

2. Parents of the many bright kids stuck in gen ed who are indistinguishable from the bottom half of the kids admitted to AAP.

3. Parents of highly gifted kids in AAP who are bored out of their minds from the watering down of the program.

4. Social justice warriors who don't like the demographics of the program.

Very insightful breakdown. I think the first category is one that deserves attention form policy makers. Mathematically gifted kids who are average readers and writers really get screwed unless their parents are paying for outside enrichment from a private company like AoPS or RSM. Category 4 can go to hell.

Can't the kids in the first category qualify for advanced math or Level 3 pullouts? Two or three kids from the gen ed classroom come into my DC's AAP class for math. IME, the Level 3 pull-outs are more language arts based, so the advanced LA kids can access the L4 curriculum there.

LIII pullouts are not equivalent to an advanced language arts curriculum and often aren’t even language arts based. Advanced math is not available until 5th grade at some schools. Capacity limitations in some center or LLIV programs may cause math gifted kids to be bumped from placement in advanced math. LIV kids automatically get priority for placement in advanced math, even if they’re not particularly good at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

The LSAT is considered the best IQ proxy test because everyone studies/preps for it. So everyone is starting on the same starting line. There is no other test with a comparable starting line, aside from a formal IQ test (and the prep materials for those are available too).

Fwiw, comparing the Cogat test to the LSAT just shows the extent of the problem.

Read again: Bar exam does not equal LSAT.

[Anonymous]

Because I have taught in gifted programs. The AAP craziness is just that. The highest level services were designed for true outlier kids - kids that nowadays would likely be classed as 2E or scary prodigies. It was not meant for simply really bright kids. The more you push bright or barely bright kids into the program, the more worthless it becomes. Track kids in their home schools, add supplemental work. The kids that it is meant for are the kids that took up 75% of my time and most of the oxygen in the classroom. I still remember many of their names many years later and I think of them with fondness, but the rest should have just been in a more traditionally structured classroom.