Why do you enter an advanced academics discussion if your kid is not smart enough?

[Anonymous]

Has anyone told OP yet that AAP isn't a gifted and talented program? Her child isn't gifted, a very teeny tiny population of AAP kids are truly gifted. I would guess that far more children do NOT belong in AAP (and are only there because of test prep, tutoring, and enrichment programs) than are actually gifted. It's laughable, OP, that you think that AAP is a gifted program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone told OP yet that AAP isn't a gifted and talented program? Her child isn't gifted, a very teeny tiny population of AAP kids are truly gifted. I would guess that far more children do NOT belong in AAP (and are only there because of test prep, tutoring, and enrichment programs) than are actually gifted. It's laughable, OP, that you think that AAP is a gifted program.

*I say this as someone who 100% is prepping my first grader to take the NNAT and will do so next year for the COGAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone told OP yet that AAP isn't a gifted and talented program? Her child isn't gifted, a very teeny tiny population of AAP kids are truly gifted. I would guess that far more children do NOT belong in AAP (and are only there because of test prep, tutoring, and enrichment programs) than are actually gifted. It's laughable, OP, that you think that AAP is a gifted program.

You clearly need the prep. Op didn’t mention the word ‘gifted’. That’s what you’re internalizing because of your own issues.

If you take a person of average intelligence, there is no amount of prep that will make them pass for gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, the people with completely average kids couldn't care less about AAP. The people most strongly opposed to AAP seem to fall into one of these categories:

1. Parents of the gen ed kids who are gifted in one subject but average in the other. They may be denied access to advanced language arts or advanced math, even though their kids would be more highly qualified for that subject than most kids in AAP.

2. Parents of the many bright kids stuck in gen ed who are indistinguishable from the bottom half of the kids admitted to AAP.

3. Parents of highly gifted kids in AAP who are bored out of their minds from the watering down of the program.

4. Social justice warriors who don't like the demographics of the program.

You missed a couple:

5. People who were gifted themselves and don't think this is a good model.

6. People who work with individuals who are book smart, but since they've been sequestered away with all of the other smart kids since grade 3, don't know how to deal with "real-life" situations.

[Anonymous]

I don't have a dog in this fight at all but my guess is it's because the people who post are remarkably gifted themselves even if their kids aren't. Have to demonstrate that somewhere, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone told OP yet that AAP isn't a gifted and talented program? Her child isn't gifted, a very teeny tiny population of AAP kids are truly gifted. I would guess that far more children do NOT belong in AAP (and are only there because of test prep, tutoring, and enrichment programs) than are actually gifted. It's laughable, OP, that you think that AAP is a gifted program.

You clearly need the prep. Op didn’t mention the word ‘gifted’. That’s what you’re internalizing because of your own issues.

If you take a person of average intelligence, there is no amount of prep that will make them pass for gifted.

Really? Let me copy OP's comment below:

Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

I’m an AAP parent. I’m not anti-AAP. But I think the selection process is subjective and it’s not a gifted program/it’s an accelerated program. And that’s stretching it. I’m glad both my kids had/have the opportunity to be in it. I do think parents like you give the program a bad name by being assuming and acting like AAP kids are smarter than many gen Ed kids. When any criticism of the program gets met with “your kids must not be smart enough,” it just screams of insecurity and defensiveness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

Ask all of the people who have been using exam prep to pass their kids off as brighter than they are.

This happens ALL the time with ALL kinds of tests. Med school grads have to take the board test and law school grads have to pass the bar exam to become licensed. Are you saying these people cheated because they used prep materials including previously used exam questions when preparing to take these tests?

Public school programs should be open to everyone, not just those who can afford to invest heavily in prep. Med school grads and would be lawyers do in fact almost uniformly enroll in prep classes. Don't think it's fair to expect children to do this in order to compete.

They are open to everyone based on need. Would you send normal kid to the special Ed classroom?

You can’t send a kid who can’t keep up with the material to the gifted classroom.

They aren't open to everyone based on need. There are huge overlaps between the bottom half of the kids in AAP and the top gen ed kids who weren't admitted. There are some kids who have high test scores, have high GBRS, and are working above grade level in all subjects, yet get rejected for AAP. How is AAP open to those kids? Or are you suggesting that they don't need AAP and couldn't keep up with the material?

If that is the case, they should be included. AAP is not too much. It’s a shame that it’s used to fulfill the GT requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

I’m an AAP parent. I’m not anti-AAP. But I think the selection process is subjective and it’s not a gifted program/it’s an accelerated program. And that’s stretching it. I’m glad both my kids had/have the opportunity to be in it. I do think parents like you give the program a bad name by being assuming and acting like AAP kids are smarter than many gen Ed kids. When any criticism of the program gets met with “your kids must not be smart enough,” it just screams of insecurity and defensiveness.

Op here:

The truth is that AAP kids are smarter than MANY gen Ed kids. I’m sure that there are a few in gen Ed that were totally missed, but the point is that a parent with an average kid can’t really entirely understand a parent with an advanced and/or gifted kid. It’s like me trying to understand someone with a kid with Down syndrome let’s say. I really don’t. I have empathy for them, and I genuinely understand that it’s hard, but I’d be lying if I said I totally get them.

The same is true for intelligence and those struggles.

The problem is that people think that’s it’s boastful to be concerned about smart kids, when in reality it’s like with all kids, they deserve their own attention.

And to the people that talk about preparing and taxes, that’s also bs. If I’m paying for my kid to get ahead, you are actually paying less taxes for my kid, because I’m putting that burden on myself. Yes, true, gifted teachers cost a bit more, but not much enough to have a burden.


I don’t have time for more now.

[Anonymous]

Those who believe that this program should exist only for prodigies—you do you realize the logistical nightmare that would ensue? If 2% FCPS elementary school students qualified, then FCPS would have to assign the students to a single school. Parents would have to drive long distances to get their kids to the prodigy school. We would end up with another TJ, in ELEMENTARY school. AAP casts a wider net because a single test score or bad GBRS shouldn’t tank that child’s future. They can reapply every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I pay taxes and I think you should pay for private/private supplementation instead. I send my kids to private starting preK, never did any testing, but DH went to TJ.

I don't understand this logic. The cost of an AAP child is not different than the cost of a gen ed child. I know people are upset about busing, but that has to be a fairly insignificant cost in the school board budget. I don't think an unfair amount of your tax dollars are going to AAP.

I dare say there isn't one other group of specialized instruction to which you'd apply this thought (ESOL, special ed, alternative school, etc.).

What about the amount of money that goes into having two different curriculums, to having additional classrooms and building out the centers, the time and effort that goes into testing and evaluation, etc.?

AAP kids aren't in some luxurious center setting. My kid's AAP classroom (at a Center) is just another classroom, just like the 2 gen ed classrooms next to it and the other AAP classroom. There is no money being spent on "building out the centers."

Curriculum costs are negligible. There's no investment in text books or anything of the like. It's using materials from one grade up (already purchased by the county) and the worksheets/materials sourced the same as in any other classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I pay taxes and I think you should pay for private/private supplementation instead. I send my kids to private starting preK, never did any testing, but DH went to TJ.

I don't understand this logic. The cost of an AAP child is not different than the cost of a gen ed child. I know people are upset about busing, but that has to be a fairly insignificant cost in the school board budget. I don't think an unfair amount of your tax dollars are going to AAP.

I dare say there isn't one other group of specialized instruction to which you'd apply this thought (ESOL, special ed, alternative school, etc.).

What about the amount of money that goes into having two different curriculums, to having additional classrooms and building out the centers, the time and effort that goes into testing and evaluation, etc.?

Those kids will be in a classroom anyway, so you’re not building any additional classrooms. Also, the centers are neighborhood based, so it’s just a matter of where you draw the school boundaries. If you remove aap centers you’d have to redraw the boundaries of all those schools to acomodate the same number of total children. If anything you’d have to make regular schools bigger to fit in the kids that you took out of the aap center.

Books are also not an issue bc there are no books, but even if they were your still need 30 books for 30 kids, just some different books for some. The only cost is the gifted teacher salary and the busses.

People that complain about aap usually also complain about teacher salaries being too low, so it’s a win win. Kids get better education, teachers get a bit more money.

[Anonymous]

Ps. If a teacher needs to explain something to someone more times for them to master it, who is taking more tax dollars?

[Anonymous]

I didn’t even know what a CogAT test was until I got my kid’s score - and it was above the highest cutoffs I see posted in this forum. My kid was completely unprepped and is considered gifted in his school. My other kid is only in kindergarten, but he is both smarter and more academically advanced than my older child.

I’m still against AAP or any segregation / pull-out programs at the elementary age. My partner and I were both in gifted programs as kids and my mom was a Jr High educator for 30 years with a masters in K-8 gifted education. We purposely chose to live outside of Fairfax to avoid AAP.

I believe all children deserve to learn creative problem solving and critical thinking skills.

I believe NOT being singled out as special or different reinforces a growth mindset and the fact that people of all talents and abilities have something to contribute.

Let’s pretend I did believe in pull out / population segregation. I wouldn’t want my child’s experience dragged down by a bunch of test-prepped and embellished parent referral kids being pushed by entitled parents. Because honestly, after years of reading this forum, I assume half of AAP kids are slightly brighter than average kids whose parents think they are special snowflakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people who are most adamantly against aap or TJ or the like have traditionally average kids.

What do you think qualifies you to have a valid opinion or a meaningful input if you don’t have a real understanding of gifted individuals?

I’m an AAP parent. I’m not anti-AAP. But I think the selection process is subjective and it’s not a gifted program/it’s an accelerated program. And that’s stretching it. I’m glad both my kids had/have the opportunity to be in it. I do think parents like you give the program a bad name by being assuming and acting like AAP kids are smarter than many gen Ed kids. When any criticism of the program gets met with “your kids must not be smart enough,” it just screams of insecurity and defensiveness.

Op here:

The truth is that AAP kids are smarter than MANY gen Ed kids. I’m sure that there are a few in gen Ed that were totally missed, but the point is that a parent with an average kid can’t really entirely understand a parent with an advanced and/or gifted kid. It’s like me trying to understand someone with a kid with Down syndrome let’s say. I really don’t. I have empathy for them, and I genuinely understand that it’s hard, but I’d be lying if I said I totally get them.

The same is true for intelligence and those struggles.

The problem is that people think that’s it’s boastful to be concerned about smart kids, when in reality it’s like with all kids, they deserve their own attention.

And to the people that talk about preparing and taxes, that’s also bs. If I’m paying for my kid to get ahead, you are actually paying less taxes for my kid, because I’m putting that burden on myself. Yes, true, gifted teachers cost a bit more, but not much enough to have a burden.


I don’t have time for more now.

I’m the PP. Do you hear yourself? Are you this insufferable and patronizing IRL? AAP isn’t a gifted program. Full stop. Get over it.