Taylor Elem — Closed today, tomorrow, to infinity and beyond?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

Hi, no there was not and is not a group that isn't for standard maintenance of APS facilities. APS already responded directly on AEM a while back disputing this claim. What parent group would want HVAC to break down? What ridiculous statement.

APS met recommended exchange rates per hour. And btw HVAC maintenance and two to six air exchange rates per hour are two different things. APS put HEPA filters in every classroom, cafeteria etc. and upgraded their filters to meet ASHRAE air exchange rate standards. You are confusing standard maintenance and air exchange rates. Taylor didn't shut down bc their air exchange rates went below minimum recommended standards as set by ASHRAE. I'm sure it is a helpful thing for you to blame a scapegoat when something breaks down at APS but this is not due to APE saying APS did the work to update their ventilation and it was okay to open schools. Which, as we've seen, was true.

APS buildings/HVAC need far more than standard maintenance. Many HVAC systems need major upgrades if not replacement just to meet code, and that's not even for Covid safety standards, whatever those are nowadays, I lose track. That is what APE advocated against. APS listened to them. It was the path of least resistance. Maybe if they had not done that, Taylor and other schools would have had their systems upgraded and those kids would not be home today.

Kind of a delicious irony that APE's actions led to kids being OUT of school and school is CLOSED.

I don’t think you can blame this one on APE. There’s no scenario where APS had the money and will to upgrade the HVAC at Taylor by now. At best it would be on a schedule for 2025.

I think it's on APS. But it certainly didn't help that APE told APS their HVACs were all perfectly fine so APS had no incentive to upgrade. If APE cares so much about keeping schools open they could always advocate for upgrades now so this Taylor situation doesn't keep happening. But I won't hold my breath or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

I remember that. Their "keep them separate" cries always hit me the wrong way. Like 1950 white segregationists. "Let them have their own program."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

Not exactly, this was long before the VLP began. Back in height of the pandemic when APS was considering HVAC improvements, APE told APS they were not needed. APE was in a huge hurry to open schools and they apparently worried that any type of improvements might hold that up. Their position was schools were fine as is.

I think APS would strongly dispute that. They did do the HVAC improvements. They had consultants review every school and spent quite a bit of money getting up to the ASHRAE standards. They just weren't good enough for Smart Restart.

I don't know about Smart Restart, but if APS really did all of the needed HVAC improvements and all is just fine and dandy now, then why is Taylor closed?

Rhetorical question because I know they didn't do all the needed improvements. My kid is in a school that's sorely in need of a new system.

They didn't claim to update all their HVAC, that would take a lot of time and a ton of money and is of course important. What they said was they met the air exchange rates that are recommended by both Harvard Safe Schools and ASHRAE. That's why I'm saying the PP is confusing the two with blaming APE's advocacy on reopening schools. APE said data showed schools were safe to reopen (I don't think anyone can dispute that at this point). APS said they met the recommended \ 4-6 exchanges per hour (which even Smart Restart admits on their website that they have a minimum of four which is considered GOOD but SR wanted at least six - hence the dispute). But Taylor's electrical or HVAC issue is not the same thing as saying APS didn't install enough HEPA filters to reopen to have "virus free air", which is the basis of Smart Restart's request. See their website here: https://smartrestartaps.org/vital-issues/ventilation-and-classroom-air-cleaners/

Stuff breaks, things need to be maintained.

The number of exchanges per hour or level of MERV filters or number of HEPA filters wouldn't have changed this. APS will continue to need to budget money for standard maintenance and budget funds for maintenance staff and unfortunately I fear a lot of the funds necessary will now be tied up in the shiny new thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

The open schools group pushed for a special virtual program that spent a ton of money and 30 kids are in now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

Not exactly, this was long before the VLP began. Back in height of the pandemic when APS was considering HVAC improvements, APE told APS they were not needed. APE was in a huge hurry to open schools and they apparently worried that any type of improvements might hold that up. Their position was schools were fine as is.

I think APS would strongly dispute that. They did do the HVAC improvements. They had consultants review every school and spent quite a bit of money getting up to the ASHRAE standards. They just weren't good enough for Smart Restart.

I don't know about Smart Restart, but if APS really did all of the needed HVAC improvements and all is just fine and dandy now, then why is Taylor closed?

Rhetorical question because I know they didn't do all the needed improvements. My kid is in a school that's sorely in need of a new system.

They didn't claim to update all their HVAC, that would take a lot of time and a ton of money and is of course important. What they said was they met the air exchange rates that are recommended by both Harvard Safe Schools and ASHRAE. That's why I'm saying the PP is confusing the two with blaming APE's advocacy on reopening schools. APE said data showed schools were safe to reopen (I don't think anyone can dispute that at this point). APS said they met the recommended \ 4-6 exchanges per hour (which even Smart Restart admits on their website that they have a minimum of four which is considered GOOD but SR wanted at least six - hence the dispute). But Taylor's electrical or HVAC issue is not the same thing as saying APS didn't install enough HEPA filters to reopen to have "virus free air", which is the basis of Smart Restart's request. See their website here: https://smartrestartaps.org/vital-issues/ventilation-and-classroom-air-cleaners/

Stuff breaks, things need to be maintained.

The number of exchanges per hour or level of MERV filters or number of HEPA filters wouldn't have changed this. APS will continue to need to budget money for standard maintenance and budget funds for maintenance staff and unfortunately I fear a lot of the funds necessary will now be tied up in the shiny new thing.

Right from that same website you posted:

"More than a third of APS classrooms violate current, minimal ventilation codes, and APS chose not to measure nor report air quality for all its trailer rooms, as well as many other classrooms, in data released to the public. APS couldn’t even count how many classrooms it had correctly in data released to the public, because so many rooms that weren’t designed to be classrooms have been converted (often without any consideration of HVAC code needs) and turned into classrooms to address severe overcrowding."

We're just talking about meeting code here. Basics.

[Anonymous]

Hilarious watching APE try to defend APS's crappy HVAC systems!

[Anonymous]

This is completely false.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is completely false.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

Rewrite history much? We all remember.

[Anonymous]

Wait the group that constantly says there is learning loss from virtual school somehow is also the group that advocated for VLP? Lol okay. What an illogical accusation. At least try to make sense when throwing out attacks. Couldn't pin Taylor's HVAC being broken on them, let's go with segregationists. Maybe that will stick!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is completely false.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

APE pushed for the separate VLP program, which turned out to be very expensive. APE didn't care about the costs, they just wanted those virtual kids away from their in person kids.

Rewrite history much? We all remember.

I remember the APEs all too well. They were the worst part of the pandemic. Even worse than Covid itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

Not exactly, this was long before the VLP began. Back in height of the pandemic when APS was considering HVAC improvements, APE told APS they were not needed. APE was in a huge hurry to open schools and they apparently worried that any type of improvements might hold that up. Their position was schools were fine as is.

I think APS would strongly dispute that. They did do the HVAC improvements. They had consultants review every school and spent quite a bit of money getting up to the ASHRAE standards. They just weren't good enough for Smart Restart.

I don't know about Smart Restart, but if APS really did all of the needed HVAC improvements and all is just fine and dandy now, then why is Taylor closed?

Rhetorical question because I know they didn't do all the needed improvements. My kid is in a school that's sorely in need of a new system.

They didn't claim to update all their HVAC, that would take a lot of time and a ton of money and is of course important. What they said was they met the air exchange rates that are recommended by both Harvard Safe Schools and ASHRAE. That's why I'm saying the PP is confusing the two with blaming APE's advocacy on reopening schools. APE said data showed schools were safe to reopen (I don't think anyone can dispute that at this point). APS said they met the recommended \ 4-6 exchanges per hour (which even Smart Restart admits on their website that they have a minimum of four which is considered GOOD but SR wanted at least six - hence the dispute). But Taylor's electrical or HVAC issue is not the same thing as saying APS didn't install enough HEPA filters to reopen to have "virus free air", which is the basis of Smart Restart's request. See their website here: https://smartrestartaps.org/vital-issues/ventilation-and-classroom-air-cleaners/

Stuff breaks, things need to be maintained.

The number of exchanges per hour or level of MERV filters or number of HEPA filters wouldn't have changed this. APS will continue to need to budget money for standard maintenance and budget funds for maintenance staff and unfortunately I fear a lot of the funds necessary will now be tied up in the shiny new thing.

Right from that same website you posted:

"More than a third of APS classrooms violate current, minimal ventilation codes, and APS chose not to measure nor report air quality for all its trailer rooms, as well as many other classrooms, in data released to the public. APS couldn’t even count how many classrooms it had correctly in data released to the public, because so many rooms that weren’t designed to be classrooms have been converted (often without any consideration of HVAC code needs) and turned into classrooms to address severe overcrowding."

We're just talking about meeting code here. Basics.

Please cite what codes they aren't meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:COVID paid for upgraded HVAC??

This is my question too. Weren't there funds allocated to schools for this? I could be wrong.

Regardless, it is ridiculous for this issue to go on into Day 2 and possibly Day 3. What major malfunction happened?

There was a vocal group of parents in the APE group who advocated against HVAC improvements.

You think parents in APE advocated to redirect Covid recovery funds from HVAC to the VLP? Umm, that seems unlikely.

Not exactly, this was long before the VLP began. Back in height of the pandemic when APS was considering HVAC improvements, APE told APS they were not needed. APE was in a huge hurry to open schools and they apparently worried that any type of improvements might hold that up. Their position was schools were fine as is.

I think APS would strongly dispute that. They did do the HVAC improvements. They had consultants review every school and spent quite a bit of money getting up to the ASHRAE standards. They just weren't good enough for Smart Restart.

I don't know about Smart Restart, but if APS really did all of the needed HVAC improvements and all is just fine and dandy now, then why is Taylor closed?

Rhetorical question because I know they didn't do all the needed improvements. My kid is in a school that's sorely in need of a new system.

They didn't claim to update all their HVAC, that would take a lot of time and a ton of money and is of course important. What they said was they met the air exchange rates that are recommended by both Harvard Safe Schools and ASHRAE. That's why I'm saying the PP is confusing the two with blaming APE's advocacy on reopening schools. APE said data showed schools were safe to reopen (I don't think anyone can dispute that at this point). APS said they met the recommended \ 4-6 exchanges per hour (which even Smart Restart admits on their website that they have a minimum of four which is considered GOOD but SR wanted at least six - hence the dispute). But Taylor's electrical or HVAC issue is not the same thing as saying APS didn't install enough HEPA filters to reopen to have "virus free air", which is the basis of Smart Restart's request. See their website here: https://smartrestartaps.org/vital-issues/ventilation-and-classroom-air-cleaners/

Stuff breaks, things need to be maintained.

The number of exchanges per hour or level of MERV filters or number of HEPA filters wouldn't have changed this. APS will continue to need to budget money for standard maintenance and budget funds for maintenance staff and unfortunately I fear a lot of the funds necessary will now be tied up in the shiny new thing.

Right from that same website you posted:

"More than a third of APS classrooms violate current, minimal ventilation codes, and APS chose not to measure nor report air quality for all its trailer rooms, as well as many other classrooms, in data released to the public. APS couldn’t even count how many classrooms it had correctly in data released to the public, because so many rooms that weren’t designed to be classrooms have been converted (often without any consideration of HVAC code needs) and turned into classrooms to address severe overcrowding."

We're just talking about meeting code here. Basics.

Please cite what codes they aren't meeting.

I don't know. I just pulled up the same website you did. I assume building codes.

[Anonymous]

The APE stuff is a red herring. Maintenance issues have existed since before the pandemic, and APS has not spent enough on them, it's obvious. Can we focus on the main problem here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait the group that constantly says there is learning loss from virtual school somehow is also the group that advocated for VLP? Lol okay. What an illogical accusation. At least try to make sense when throwing out attacks. Couldn't pin Taylor's HVAC being broken on them, let's go with segregationists. Maybe that will stick!

No that's not what I said. APE didn't advocate for virtual learning to happen. That was already a given. APE advocated for a separate virtual program last year, instead of having a few virtual classes in the home schools.

APE got its way, and we got the VLP, and we all know how that went.