This generation of women dropping the rope

[Anonymous]

I have never picked up responsibility for my ILs. The reality is that my husband is more thoughtful than me. I’m a terrible gift giver.

That said, I like my in laws and I do things I want to do for them. From time to time, I call my MIL to tell her something funny about a kid. I invited her and her cousin to my house for lunch and a movie. She told me she really wanted me to be her tour guide in NYC so I planned a trip there with her and my daughter.

There is a happy medium here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never picked up the rope. My husband was always in charge of his parents. I’m pretty sure they haven’t received but one or two Christmas gifts in the last 17 years. Oh well. Not my problem.

I also never picked up the rope. My DH does remember cards, flowers, gifts, birthdays, etc., for both his parents and his sister and her family. He does work with his parents and sister to plan visits and holidays and vacations, and we see my ILs about the same as my family.

The one thing my husband doesn't do to his family's satisfaction is call or FT with the kids. MIL and FIL have wheedled me about this, but I told FIL to his face that I am not DH's secretary, and if they want the son they raised to call more, they should ask him directly. But they don't ask directly, they just whine and guilt trip like "oh, we thought you forgot our phone number, what a nice surprise that you called," and DH doesn't fall for that. The last time MIL whined to me about it, I told her what I sometimes say to my own parents: "The phone rings both ways." Both my parents and my ILs act like kids must initiate the call or OMG abandonment, and I don't play that game. I call my parents once or twice a week, regularly, but if I forget a week they just don't call me and try to guilt trip. Nope! The phone rings both ways: if I don't call you and you want to talk? Call.

np The only thing I would add is you are busier than they are and they probably don't want to call you if you are in the middle of work/making dinner/going to ballet/soccer camp etc. Also, why I agree the son should take the lead I also think that it is sad that there is such a division with "his" and "her" family. When you marry you should consider both sides "family" and figure out a way to include and be involved.

When they say this, I tell them that they don't even have to leave a voicemail--if I miss a call, I will call them back. Or they can text me to ask for a good time to call. It's not about any of that, it's about the older generation feeling it is Their Due as Elders to have the kids call them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a pretty good relationship with the in-laws, but the reason I do more than I otherwise would is I want my kid to have a good relationship with them, if she wants it.

+1. My ILs love DS and have done 10x for him (and me to be honest) than I have given back in handling all the cards, flowers, meals out, etc. for special occasions. I enjoy sending a beautiful flower arrangement and knowing how much my MIL will enjoy it too. I hope that DS marries someone who is not a sour DCUM mom.

You’re both missing the point. Go on and do these things if you want to and it’s important to you, but no wife need feel obligated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

What if he asked you nicely to pick out something for his mom? Most men don't come out and say "you are responsible for MY family" It is more subtle than that.

If he asked me nicely and had a reason that he couldn't do so, I would help him out. Like if he were on a business trip the week before her birthday and asked me to arrange to send flowers and a card, I would be happy to do so. But if he was just like hey would you do this for me I'd be like no, dude, I'm just as busy as you are. And I don't buy into the whole "I don't know what to get her"--just ask her, or freaking Google "gift ideas for mom." If you don't know your mom's likes and preferences after knowing her for the 32 years you knew her before I rolled up, can't help you, buddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

Some women are conditioned by their own family and do this even if their boyfriend/fiance has no expectation and never says anything. My mom definitely tried to condition me to do this stuff. When I got married she was always asking if I was doing this or that for my DHs family (are you arranging visits with them? are you remembering their birthdays and anniversaries? this is part of your job now, you know). By the time I got married I was onto this con but I think a lot of women are raised that this is "polite" and "good manners" and that it's their job. And they only start to question it after years, and often after they become moms themselves, and start to realize who unequal these expectations are.

When I was growing up, my mom also expected me to take 100% responsibility for my relationship with my father. He was unkind to me my entire childhood, would say rude things about my appearance or my grades (I got great grades, by the way, but he'd make a comment on an A- or criticize me if I didn't win a class award that only went to one student in class). He'd also pick fights with me about politics. My mom was constantly advising me to simply "let him have his way." To be polite and gracious with him so that he could feel important and right. She didn't care if I felt important or like my opinion mattered. It was all in service to his ego and whims.

So of course this also extends to ILs. My mom thinks I owe my DH and his family something, like I need to apologize for my existence or make up for my inherent pointlessness by serving them.

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

Yeah, you say this like I didn't have that same type of upbringing. I DID. My dad has never bought his sister a birthday gift since he and my mom got together. And? So? Just because I saw that modeled in my own family doesn't mean I felt compelled to buy into that BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

Some women are conditioned by their own family and do this even if their boyfriend/fiance has no expectation and never says anything. My mom definitely tried to condition me to do this stuff. When I got married she was always asking if I was doing this or that for my DHs family (are you arranging visits with them? are you remembering their birthdays and anniversaries? this is part of your job now, you know). By the time I got married I was onto this con but I think a lot of women are raised that this is "polite" and "good manners" and that it's their job. And they only start to question it after years, and often after they become moms themselves, and start to realize who unequal these expectations are.

When I was growing up, my mom also expected me to take 100% responsibility for my relationship with my father. He was unkind to me my entire childhood, would say rude things about my appearance or my grades (I got great grades, by the way, but he'd make a comment on an A- or criticize me if I didn't win a class award that only went to one student in class). He'd also pick fights with me about politics. My mom was constantly advising me to simply "let him have his way." To be polite and gracious with him so that he could feel important and right. She didn't care if I felt important or like my opinion mattered. It was all in service to his ego and whims.

So of course this also extends to ILs. My mom thinks I owe my DH and his family something, like I need to apologize for my existence or make up for my inherent pointlessness by serving them.

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

Yeah, you say this like I didn't have that same type of upbringing. I DID. My dad has never bought his sister a birthday gift since he and my mom got together. And? So? Just because I saw that modeled in my own family doesn't mean I felt compelled to buy into that BS.

Ok? Good for you. Different people have different experiences. And, wait for it, different relationships! Some good, some bad, but I don't think women saying "hell no" to upholding these systems is serviced at all by other women saying "yeah I told you so moron".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

Some women are conditioned by their own family and do this even if their boyfriend/fiance has no expectation and never says anything. My mom definitely tried to condition me to do this stuff. When I got married she was always asking if I was doing this or that for my DHs family (are you arranging visits with them? are you remembering their birthdays and anniversaries? this is part of your job now, you know). By the time I got married I was onto this con but I think a lot of women are raised that this is "polite" and "good manners" and that it's their job. And they only start to question it after years, and often after they become moms themselves, and start to realize who unequal these expectations are.

When I was growing up, my mom also expected me to take 100% responsibility for my relationship with my father. He was unkind to me my entire childhood, would say rude things about my appearance or my grades (I got great grades, by the way, but he'd make a comment on an A- or criticize me if I didn't win a class award that only went to one student in class). He'd also pick fights with me about politics. My mom was constantly advising me to simply "let him have his way." To be polite and gracious with him so that he could feel important and right. She didn't care if I felt important or like my opinion mattered. It was all in service to his ego and whims.

So of course this also extends to ILs. My mom thinks I owe my DH and his family something, like I need to apologize for my existence or make up for my inherent pointlessness by serving them.

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

My mother even knows I have a strained relationship with my MIL and supports me, but her own conditioning is strong. So when my DH does out of town she'll casually ask "are you taking the children to see MIL this weekend?" Um, hell no, he can do that when he returns? It pops up from her in the strangest ways. But she is, in general, the most caring and thoughtful person. Her own MIL was VERY intense and my mom dealt with her with a lot of love. I thought I could try that tact, but it turns out I couldn't!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

Some women are conditioned by their own family and do this even if their boyfriend/fiance has no expectation and never says anything. My mom definitely tried to condition me to do this stuff. When I got married she was always asking if I was doing this or that for my DHs family (are you arranging visits with them? are you remembering their birthdays and anniversaries? this is part of your job now, you know). By the time I got married I was onto this con but I think a lot of women are raised that this is "polite" and "good manners" and that it's their job. And they only start to question it after years, and often after they become moms themselves, and start to realize who unequal these expectations are.

When I was growing up, my mom also expected me to take 100% responsibility for my relationship with my father. He was unkind to me my entire childhood, would say rude things about my appearance or my grades (I got great grades, by the way, but he'd make a comment on an A- or criticize me if I didn't win a class award that only went to one student in class). He'd also pick fights with me about politics. My mom was constantly advising me to simply "let him have his way." To be polite and gracious with him so that he could feel important and right. She didn't care if I felt important or like my opinion mattered. It was all in service to his ego and whims.

So of course this also extends to ILs. My mom thinks I owe my DH and his family something, like I need to apologize for my existence or make up for my inherent pointlessness by serving them.

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

Yeah, you say this like I didn't have that same type of upbringing. I DID. My dad has never bought his sister a birthday gift since he and my mom got together. And? So? Just because I saw that modeled in my own family doesn't mean I felt compelled to buy into that BS.

Ok? Good for you. Different people have different experiences. And, wait for it, different relationships! Some good, some bad, but I don't think women saying "hell no" to upholding these systems is serviced at all by other women saying "yeah I told you so moron".

You are the one who tried to mansplain to me social conditioning of women. Wow, eye-opening insights you brought to the table. I've read Simone de Beauvoir, too, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ummm…Why did you pick up the rope in the first place?

My husband has always been in charge of communicating with his family and I’m only responsible for my parents and siblings.

Same. I never took on that role. I just don't have time to manage his relationship with his family, other than I do send my MIL cards and presents because she is so good about remembering every occasion for the kids. We are definitely not as close with his side of the family, but that's on him. I contrast that with my brother (and his wife), who is super close with my whole family, because HE makes an effort.

[Anonymous]

Good for you, OP.
I dropped the rope- and while it benefited my sanity and wellbeing 10000x over, it has caused a lot of strain in my marriage.
Mainly b/c DH refuses to acknowledge MIL as the source of drama, difficulty, tension, etc.

The moment I decided to drop the rope- and told DH straight to his face that I was tapping out....MIL called me personally and asked me to select a restaurant for her birthday dinner. She said it would mean the world to her if i selected the venue, restaurant, etc b/c she thinks I have interesting taste in food and was more on the food scene than she was. Slightly weird, but ok. So, I picked a restaurant, made a reservation and the whole thing.

MIL sent an email out to the whole family saying that I picked xyz cuisine restaurant when what she reallly wanted was abc cuisine. So she was taking it upon herself to cancel the reservation and move it to the restaurant of her choosing.

The whole thing was a game. A set up, a game. I told DH- "I'm out. Don't ask or expect me to do anything more than show up at events from now on. Bare minimum."

She was a first class B and I'm thrilled to be done with her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never picked up the rope. My husband was always in charge of his parents. I’m pretty sure they haven’t received but one or two Christmas gifts in the last 17 years. Oh well. Not my problem.

I also never picked up the rope. My DH does remember cards, flowers, gifts, birthdays, etc., for both his parents and his sister and her family. He does work with his parents and sister to plan visits and holidays and vacations, and we see my ILs about the same as my family.

The one thing my husband doesn't do to his family's satisfaction is call or FT with the kids. MIL and FIL have wheedled me about this, but I told FIL to his face that I am not DH's secretary, and if they want the son they raised to call more, they should ask him directly. But they don't ask directly, they just whine and guilt trip like "oh, we thought you forgot our phone number, what a nice surprise that you called," and DH doesn't fall for that. The last time MIL whined to me about it, I told her what I sometimes say to my own parents: "The phone rings both ways." Both my parents and my ILs act like kids must initiate the call or OMG abandonment, and I don't play that game. I call my parents once or twice a week, regularly, but if I forget a week they just don't call me and try to guilt trip. Nope! The phone rings both ways: if I don't call you and you want to talk? Call.

np The only thing I would add is you are busier than they are and they probably don't want to call you if you are in the middle of work/making dinner/going to ballet/soccer camp etc. Also, why I agree the son should take the lead I also think that it is sad that there is such a division with "his" and "her" family. When you marry you should consider both sides "family" and figure out a way to include and be involved.

... except that no one is saying this to men - only to women. How often do men initiate social events with their ILs, send gifts or cards, etc.?

~Mother of two sons

[Anonymous]

Yep. I met dh when we were in college so I always had the rope. His mom never got to see what he'd be like single and after college (ie not receiving gifts, since he didn't have money in college). I would buy a present for my mom and just buy two. It reached a crisis point when my second kid was born and I just dropped the rope. DH will ask me on Christmas Eve what we got for his family even. It's pretty ridiculous. If they have an Amazon wishlist, I will buy from it, but I won't do any more.

It's all of our MIL's own faults. They should have raised sons who remembered gifts, cards and calling their parents. I'm raising my sons to appreciate these things and flat out telling them it's their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

Yes, exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never picked up the rope. My husband was always in charge of his parents. I’m pretty sure they haven’t received but one or two Christmas gifts in the last 17 years. Oh well. Not my problem.

I also never picked up the rope. My DH does remember cards, flowers, gifts, birthdays, etc., for both his parents and his sister and her family. He does work with his parents and sister to plan visits and holidays and vacations, and we see my ILs about the same as my family.

The one thing my husband doesn't do to his family's satisfaction is call or FT with the kids. MIL and FIL have wheedled me about this, but I told FIL to his face that I am not DH's secretary, and if they want the son they raised to call more, they should ask him directly. But they don't ask directly, they just whine and guilt trip like "oh, we thought you forgot our phone number, what a nice surprise that you called," and DH doesn't fall for that. The last time MIL whined to me about it, I told her what I sometimes say to my own parents: "The phone rings both ways." Both my parents and my ILs act like kids must initiate the call or OMG abandonment, and I don't play that game. I call my parents once or twice a week, regularly, but if I forget a week they just don't call me and try to guilt trip. Nope! The phone rings both ways: if I don't call you and you want to talk? Call.

np The only thing I would add is you are busier than they are and they probably don't want to call you if you are in the middle of work/making dinner/going to ballet/soccer camp etc. Also, why I agree the son should take the lead I also think that it is sad that there is such a division with "his" and "her" family. When you marry you should consider both sides "family" and figure out a way to include and be involved.

... except that no one is saying this to men - only to women. How often do men initiate social events with their ILs, send gifts or cards, etc.?

~Mother of two sons

Exactly.

And you know what I'll add? If I didn't know you for what, 25 years, and then I started dating your son, why would I be expected to know your tastes, preferences, traditions, or expectations? By the time a son is old enough to date, his parents should have instilled in him whatever values, traditions and expectations they wanted to pass on. And yes, then it's his decision whether to fulfill that or not. My husband got so sick of his parents expecting daily phone calls that he flat-out told them when he was in his early 20s, I will be calling you once a week. Also, just because you're into gift-giving doesn't mean your son will be, and it's not on his wife to nudge him toward "the right path" in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a pretty good relationship with the in-laws, but the reason I do more than I otherwise would is I want my kid to have a good relationship with them, if she wants it.

+1. My ILs love DS and have done 10x for him (and me to be honest) than I have given back in handling all the cards, flowers, meals out, etc. for special occasions. I enjoy sending a beautiful flower arrangement and knowing how much my MIL will enjoy it too. I hope that DS marries someone who is not a sour DCUM mom.

You’re both missing the point. Go on and do these things if you want to and it’s important to you, but no wife need feel obligated.

DP if you enjoy exchanging birthday/Christmas gift with adults you need to step up. If you do not care or think adult birthday/Christmas presents are crazy(like I do)…stop the madness.