Ok to just make major parental decisions solo?

[Anonymous]

Just to add to this ^ even though school psychology exams are not great, the school is obligated to assess for free and if you disagree with the results, then you can ask for an IEE (independent educational exam) which the school system pays for but you choose the provider. Again, ask on special needs thread about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your IEP team is whack. It is not possible to have both an ISP and a 504 plan at the same time. If your kid already has an IEP, then she is already “labelled”. (Or maybe I’m whack If I did not understand your OP.)

An IEP legally requires 1) identifying a “disorder (like dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, language disorder, etc.) and 2) showing that the disorder has an “adverse educational imp t (which does not have to be “bad grades”) and 3) need for special instruction. If the IEP team is noticing new issues and thinks your daughter needs accommodations (like extra time, copy of class notes, frequent reminders, etc.), then those accommodations are supposed to be added to the IEP.

If you have an IEP and your team is saying to you that they can only add the accommodations to a 504 plan, they are either extremely ignorant (best case scenario) or liars (worst case scenario). Sometimes teams try to move kids from an IEP to a 504 because they think the kid has accomplished goals and doesn’t need further support and they portray stepping down to a lower level of support as a positive next step (best case scenario). But, often the team is just tryinv to push the student down to a lower level of support that has fewer legal protections.

Please repost your question in Special Needs if you have more Qs about IEP v 504.

As far as getting an evaluation - as I said above, if your DC already has an IEP, she is “labelled” - you have to identify disorder to get an IEP, the disorder is a label. Your DH is right in part because of course labels don’t fully define people and their abilities. And society still has some stigma about these labels.

BUT, you are also right. if your DC already has an IEP, there’s a pretty high likelihood that that IEP rests on some pretty crappy testing and data. Schools don’t like to put a lot of effort into testing because it’s time and money. A full psychoeducational or neuropsychological exam, if you can afford it, it’s almost always better and more complete view of the student. labels can be helpful and some ways - A label can help us find peers with similar strengths and weaknesses, a label can provide access to treatment, a label can help us research our medical issues, etc.

I think knowledge is power. As a parent I want my kids to have as much knowledge about themselves as possible before they leave the nest. Maybe if your DH isn’t ready for a psychoeducational exam, you could convince him to at least go and visit with a psychologist (or educational advocate) who offers these kinds of exams to get more education about what kind of testing is typically done and what I can tell you about your child. Sometimes parents do better when they hear these issues from a doctor then from the other parent

You're missing that OP never said that the child study team found any disability or need for accomodation at all. She had a.meeting with the team because she claimed there was some kind of need for accomodation
The parent has the right to ask for that so the child study team met with her and documented her concerns and their observations and conclusions in an IEP report. Note that OP dances around the obvious fact that no disability was found and no accomodation was.found necessary. She still hasn't said where she wants.thjs to all lead as in what accomodation she is looking for. In fact no where does op claim that her child was ever found to have any deficits at any time at any level of education. This has been going on for years judging by the first post and the father is understandably fed up with it. Amy sane parent would be.

[Anonymous]

I would give my spouse six months to implement whatever “parental discipline” he felt was necessary, and if that wasn’t effective, seek out professional help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would give my spouse six months to implement whatever “parental discipline” he felt was necessary, and if that wasn’t effective, seek out professional help.

Who said the father thinks any parental discipline is necessary? If the OP feels the child is not fulfilling their obligations as a student then it is up to her to apply whatever corrective measures might be appropriate to modify the students behavior.

OPs failure to parent effectively does not mean anything is wrong with the child, the father, or the child study team. The ONLY person involved who seems to think there is any real issue is OP. But she still hasn't started what specific accomodations she is looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would give my spouse six months to implement whatever “parental discipline” he felt was necessary, and if that wasn’t effective, seek out professional help.

Who said the father thinks any parental discipline is necessary? If the OP feels the child is not fulfilling their obligations as a student then it is up to her to apply whatever corrective measures might be appropriate to modify the students behavior.

OPs failure to parent effectively does not mean anything is wrong with the child, the father, or the child study team. The ONLY person involved who seems to think there is any real issue is OP. But she still hasn't started what specific accomodations she is looking for.

It’s kind of bizarre that you presume to know this child better than his mother does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Option A is unethical. Sorry.

Reopen the conversation. Think of it as having two phases. In the first phase, you focus on LISTENING. really hear your husband out. See if there are compromises that are available. What exactly are his concerns? What’s his “worst case scenario?” What is he afraid of. Listen, listen, listen, and seriously consider what he’s saying. Allot for this... two weeks? IF at the end of the two weeks, you still haven’t come to agreement or any compromise, and dispute going in with an open mind, you still feel that you need this evaluation, then you try and convince him to do this. If a week or two of that doesn’t work, you can say “I know you disagree, but I feel I need to do this for our child. I’m taking him next week.”

Btw, I agree with you. But your husband is your child’s parent, not me.

I think this is a fair approach. Thanks for the advice. -OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to make that decision for yourself. People here would say yes because they agree with the action you want to take (FWIW, I agree with the action also, but I’m looking at the question you posed as a relationship question).
If you were trying to do something that the other parent opposed but it was NOT a DCUM-approved action, you’d get a different response.

So I think you should weigh the benefit you believe you will achieve against the potential harm to your relationship when your spouse finds out you went behind his back and proceed accordingly. Also think about whether the harm to the relationship, if any, could also have a negative effect on the kid.

Yeah, I think deep down I know I have to discuss with my husband otherwise there will be a huge blowup, and major consequences. I am just so tired of arguing the point, and I guess I am just looking for a green light to just do what I think I need to do.

If you need a note from the pediatrician, will he go with you to an appointment and hear what the pediatrician has to say? I'd make this the minimum before considering just doing it myself.

At some point the needs of the child take precedence over his adult hangups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your IEP team is whack. It is not possible to have both an ISP and a 504 plan at the same time. If your kid already has an IEP, then she is already “labelled”. (Or maybe I’m whack If I did not understand your OP.)

An IEP legally requires 1) identifying a “disorder (like dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, language disorder, etc.) and 2) showing that the disorder has an “adverse educational imp t (which does not have to be “bad grades”) and 3) need for special instruction. If the IEP team is noticing new issues and thinks your daughter needs accommodations (like extra time, copy of class notes, frequent reminders, etc.), then those accommodations are supposed to be added to the IEP.

If you have an IEP and your team is saying to you that they can only add the accommodations to a 504 plan, they are either extremely ignorant (best case scenario) or liars (worst case scenario). Sometimes teams try to move kids from an IEP to a 504 because they think the kid has accomplished goals and doesn’t need further support and they portray stepping down to a lower level of support as a positive next step (best case scenario). But, often the team is just tryinv to push the student down to a lower level of support that has fewer legal protections.

Please repost your question in Special Needs if you have more Qs about IEP v 504.

As far as getting an evaluation - as I said above, if your DC already has an IEP, she is “labelled” - you have to identify disorder to get an IEP, the disorder is a label. Your DH is right in part because of course labels don’t fully define people and their abilities. And society still has some stigma about these labels.

BUT, you are also right. if your DC already has an IEP, there’s a pretty high likelihood that that IEP rests on some pretty crappy testing and data. Schools don’t like to put a lot of effort into testing because it’s time and money. A full psychoeducational or neuropsychological exam, if you can afford it, it’s almost always better and more complete view of the student. labels can be helpful and some ways - A label can help us find peers with similar strengths and weaknesses, a label can provide access to treatment, a label can help us research our medical issues, etc.

I think knowledge is power. As a parent I want my kids to have as much knowledge about themselves as possible before they leave the nest. Maybe if your DH isn’t ready for a psychoeducational exam, you could convince him to at least go and visit with a psychologist (or educational advocate) who offers these kinds of exams to get more education about what kind of testing is typically done and what I can tell you about your child. Sometimes parents do better when they hear these issues from a doctor then from the other parent

I think I’m causing some confusion here because I’m in a neighboring state that requires an IEP for gifted students. That is what my child has. The gifted program is essentially just a pull out once or twice a week for enrichment. They have also identified some attention issues, time management issues, etc, but nothing that is affecting current academics. But they have voiced concerns that these problem areas might become more of a serious issue as our child moves to middle school next year. I am not clear on exactly what the IEP covers and the 504 covers as it was just mentioned to me for the first time. The 504 was suggested for middle school, not elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP being vague is not going to improve the communications issues with your spouse. What does "executive functioning issues" actually mean? It's a nonsense phrase that is so diffuse as to be meaningless. What specific skills or tasks or abilities do you feel your son to be deficient in respect to? What specific deficits we're identified by the IEP team and written up under 504? Example, the student is in a wheelchair and needs extra time to get from class to class as an accomodation. The child is dyslexic and needs extra time to complete times examinations. A 504 suggests some deficit was identified which does not rise to the level of a disability but does warrant some in school accomodation. I'm sure it doesn't say "the mother thinks the child child has executive functioning issues" in the IEP. There has to be more and it has to be much more specific of you want to die on this hill.

By executive functioning issues, I mean organization, planning, time management, and attention issues. Our child has an IEP for a gifted program. No 504 yet. The issues I mentioned were brought up by several different teachers over the years, and in particular, by the teacher of the gifted program, and written up in the IEP as well.

But OP, you still haven't explain in a specific fashion what you believe are your child's supposed deficits in "organization, planning, time management, and attention issues." Apparently he's not only above average as a student, he's gifted. Just because he doesn't study as hard as you want him to study, doesn't do the things you want the way you want him to do them, and perhaps isn't neurotically obsessed with being valedictorian doesn't mean he has any deficits in any of those still vague areas.

Wanting to play video games and getting Bs and C's instead of straight As doesn't mean he has any deficits in any of the areas you listed. Half assing his school work and extra curriculars doesn't mean that either even if you are a tiger mom and want him to aspire to Harvard Medical School. It just means he doesn't share your priorities.

When a parent falsely believes their child has a non existent deficit to the point of wanting authorities to officially label it, that's a form of munchausen by proxy.

OP, it actually sounds like you are.more in need of an evaluation of some kind then your child is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your IEP team is whack. It is not possible to have both an ISP and a 504 plan at the same time. If your kid already has an IEP, then she is already “labelled”. (Or maybe I’m whack If I did not understand your OP.)

An IEP legally requires 1) identifying a “disorder (like dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, language disorder, etc.) and 2) showing that the disorder has an “adverse educational imp t (which does not have to be “bad grades”) and 3) need for special instruction. If the IEP team is noticing new issues and thinks your daughter needs accommodations (like extra time, copy of class notes, frequent reminders, etc.), then those accommodations are supposed to be added to the IEP.

If you have an IEP and your team is saying to you that they can only add the accommodations to a 504 plan, they are either extremely ignorant (best case scenario) or liars (worst case scenario). Sometimes teams try to move kids from an IEP to a 504 because they think the kid has accomplished goals and doesn’t need further support and they portray stepping down to a lower level of support as a positive next step (best case scenario). But, often the team is just tryinv to push the student down to a lower level of support that has fewer legal protections.

Please repost your question in Special Needs if you have more Qs about IEP v 504.

As far as getting an evaluation - as I said above, if your DC already has an IEP, she is “labelled” - you have to identify disorder to get an IEP, the disorder is a label. Your DH is right in part because of course labels don’t fully define people and their abilities. And society still has some stigma about these labels.

BUT, you are also right. if your DC already has an IEP, there’s a pretty high likelihood that that IEP rests on some pretty crappy testing and data. Schools don’t like to put a lot of effort into testing because it’s time and money. A full psychoeducational or neuropsychological exam, if you can afford it, it’s almost always better and more complete view of the student. labels can be helpful and some ways - A label can help us find peers with similar strengths and weaknesses, a label can provide access to treatment, a label can help us research our medical issues, etc.

I think knowledge is power. As a parent I want my kids to have as much knowledge about themselves as possible before they leave the nest. Maybe if your DH isn’t ready for a psychoeducational exam, you could convince him to at least go and visit with a psychologist (or educational advocate) who offers these kinds of exams to get more education about what kind of testing is typically done and what I can tell you about your child. Sometimes parents do better when they hear these issues from a doctor then from the other parent

You're missing that OP never said that the child study team found any disability or need for accomodation at all. She had a.meeting with the team because she claimed there was some kind of need for accomodation
The parent has the right to ask for that so the child study team met with her and documented her concerns and their observations and conclusions in an IEP report. Note that OP dances around the obvious fact that no disability was found and no accomodation was.found necessary. She still hasn't said where she wants.thjs to all lead as in what accomodation she is looking for. In fact no where does op claim that her child was ever found to have any deficits at any time at any level of education. This has been going on for years judging by the first post and the father is understandably fed up with it. Amy sane parent would be.

It is really bizarre that you are just totally making up your own story. None of what you said is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your specific list is exactly what basically most really smart kids do, especially if the material isn't challenging.

Well, I was a high school valedictorian, college valedictorian, and did well in my Ivy grad program...I still work like this. It's more of a certain kind of thinker than a disability. Have you read up on things like DISC profiles, etc.? Your son sounds really gifted but just a different profile than teachers tend to want.

FWIW, I was bored in grad school so I took all my notes in rhyme -- for years.

Noted. I don’t rule this out as a possibility. As this is essentially my husband (also a valedictorian) who pretty much daydreamed and goofed off through all his classes, and self taught himself just by reading textbooks. Whereas I was gifted but had very similar struggles as my child. -op

[Anonymous]

OP, I think if you'd posted this in the Special Needs forum, you wouldn't have gotten so much pushback about your concerns about executive function. People in that forum tend to be very understanding that ADHD is real. They also understand that gifted kids can be inattentive and/or hyperactive. And it seems to me that Relationships forum tends to have some people coming on and being argumentative/judgmental. But I see why you chose this one.
Don't be pushed by those contrarians pushing their opinions that it's your parenting, or your child's issues are no big deal.
In my case, my son showed signs of impulsivity and inattentiveness. DH attributed my son's behavior to "all boys are like that." I strongly disagreed--when you are constantly getting the notes at end of day from the pre-school teacher, the elementary school after-school counselors, etc, it is not something you can explain away. My DH had heard many stories about Ritalin 'abuse' in older kids. (overprescribing, dependency, misuse, etc.) that he had a preconceived notion that "accepting an ADHD diagnosis"="going on Ritalin"=bad. Finally, the turning point came when my son accidentally harmed another child physically (fortunately not badly, and the victim was a sweet, forgiving child, but still). Other kids had provoked his anger and he acted out in a way that ended up hurting the classmate who was standing in his path. So, I was summoned to the school counselor's office the next day and told that my child would not be permitted back in school unless I agreed to address his behavior with professional help. I don't know what the legal-type rules on suspending a child are, but it didn't matter to me...I instantly said yes because I had already identified a neuropsych evaluation person and wanted to move forward anyways on getting him help.
Assuming your son isn't about to get himself into a situation where you are faced with that sort of ultimatum, I have some other suggestions for you.
First, you can tell your DH that one benefit of the full neuropscyh evaluation is to provide you with a very detailed insight about the types of intellectual strengths your son has. You know your child is gifted, but the evaluation can include a sort of IQ test, and a breakdown of what parts of his intellect are particularly strong. This is not only useful to encourage your child but also has professional weight, so if you need it in the future for any other purposes, you can have it. (in my case, we were going to use it to help get my son into an enriched school program, although it wasn't necessary by the time all was done).
Second, you could propose a compromise of sorts to your DH that you have a consultation with a developmental pediatrician. In my case, neither DH or I were all that familiar with developmental peds, but I kept seeing them mentioned in the special needs forum and went ahead and arranged an appointment with one. It was after the neuropsych, in our case, but I think you can just as easily do it as the first port of call. Your DH can have a professional explain what he/she is seeing, and likely in an authoritative but sensitive manner, so that your DH hears the information in a way that he can absorb. (note that Developmental pediatricians aren't covered by many health insurance plans and aren't cheap). Finally, if your child's pediatrician is attuned to ADHD issues, as my DS's is, he or she can be a voice similar to that of the developmental pediatrician. You'd just need to get your DH to come to that appointment (you don't have to give him any clues beforehand, maybe), and make sure it's a long enough appointment for this kind of discussion. And perhaps email the doctor ahead of time with your concerns so that she/he can plan accordingly when asking your son questions, etc. (and the doctor will surely arrange to give you his/her opinion privately and not in front of your son).
Another argument you can use to maybe convince your DH is that if it will help your son to have a front-row seat in class, for example, or to have his teachers give him reminders, then the evaluation->504 is the way to make that happen. It doesn't have to be because your son gets a label "Has ADHD" . You can simply say that the evaluation can help point to ways that your DS can perform better and require the school to comply.
You might want to post your question on the special needs board, because while there are many people who've replied about their own IEP/504 journey, there is a lot of noise from people questioning your judgment, and on that forum, people do not often judge, and it's likely that people have successfully navigated your very same situation.

[Anonymous]

OPs child doesn't have ADHD. He doesn't have any disability. She finally admitted his IEP is because he is gifted. Not disabled. The IEP doesn't say the child requires any accomodations. Attention issues and time management issues aren't disabilities, don't indicate executive function problems, and don't suggest any special needs accomodations. OP still hasn't indicated what.accomodations she is seeking to have the school district provide. What do you want from the school district, OP? What do you want them to give you? What is your end game with this nonsense?

[Anonymous]

This wasn't posted on the special needs.forum because it's really not about the child at all. It's about ops wish to use the dispute over the child as leverage in her ongoing battle with her husband. She indicates as much in her first post. If she really thought this was a special needs.child that's where she would have posted it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think if you'd posted this in the Special Needs forum, you wouldn't have gotten so much pushback about your concerns about executive function. People in that forum tend to be very understanding that ADHD is real. They also understand that gifted kids can be inattentive and/or hyperactive. And it seems to me that Relationships forum tends to have some people coming on and being argumentative/judgmental. But I see why you chose this one.
Don't be pushed by those contrarians pushing their opinions that it's your parenting, or your child's issues are no big deal.
In my case, my son showed signs of impulsivity and inattentiveness. DH attributed my son's behavior to "all boys are like that." I strongly disagreed--when you are constantly getting the notes at end of day from the pre-school teacher, the elementary school after-school counselors, etc, it is not something you can explain away. My DH had heard many stories about Ritalin 'abuse' in older kids. (overprescribing, dependency, misuse, etc.) that he had a preconceived notion that "accepting an ADHD diagnosis"="going on Ritalin"=bad. Finally, the turning point came when my son accidentally harmed another child physically (fortunately not badly, and the victim was a sweet, forgiving child, but still). Other kids had provoked his anger and he acted out in a way that ended up hurting the classmate who was standing in his path. So, I was summoned to the school counselor's office the next day and told that my child would not be permitted back in school unless I agreed to address his behavior with professional help. I don't know what the legal-type rules on suspending a child are, but it didn't matter to me...I instantly said yes because I had already identified a neuropsych evaluation person and wanted to move forward anyways on getting him help.
Assuming your son isn't about to get himself into a situation where you are faced with that sort of ultimatum, I have some other suggestions for you.
First, you can tell your DH that one benefit of the full neuropscyh evaluation is to provide you with a very detailed insight about the types of intellectual strengths your son has. You know your child is gifted, but the evaluation can include a sort of IQ test, and a breakdown of what parts of his intellect are particularly strong. This is not only useful to encourage your child but also has professional weight, so if you need it in the future for any other purposes, you can have it. (in my case, we were going to use it to help get my son into an enriched school program, although it wasn't necessary by the time all was done).
Second, you could propose a compromise of sorts to your DH that you have a consultation with a developmental pediatrician. In my case, neither DH or I were all that familiar with developmental peds, but I kept seeing them mentioned in the special needs forum and went ahead and arranged an appointment with one. It was after the neuropsych, in our case, but I think you can just as easily do it as the first port of call. Your DH can have a professional explain what he/she is seeing, and likely in an authoritative but sensitive manner, so that your DH hears the information in a way that he can absorb. (note that Developmental pediatricians aren't covered by many health insurance plans and aren't cheap). Finally, if your child's pediatrician is attuned to ADHD issues, as my DS's is, he or she can be a voice similar to that of the developmental pediatrician. You'd just need to get your DH to come to that appointment (you don't have to give him any clues beforehand, maybe), and make sure it's a long enough appointment for this kind of discussion. And perhaps email the doctor ahead of time with your concerns so that she/he can plan accordingly when asking your son questions, etc. (and the doctor will surely arrange to give you his/her opinion privately and not in front of your son).
Another argument you can use to maybe convince your DH is that if it will help your son to have a front-row seat in class, for example, or to have his teachers give him reminders, then the evaluation->504 is the way to make that happen. It doesn't have to be because your son gets a label "Has ADHD" . You can simply say that the evaluation can help point to ways that your DS can perform better and require the school to comply.
You might want to post your question on the special needs board, because while there are many people who've replied about their own IEP/504 journey, there is a lot of noise from people questioning your judgment, and on that forum, people do not often judge, and it's likely that people have successfully navigated your very same situation.

I do think I need to find out more from the school about what exactly a 504 will provide for our child, and then we need to decide if that will be beneficial. Is it just preferential seating, and extra reminders, and extra time for assignments? From what I've read in my tentative google search, it doesn't sound like it is much more beyond that. And from what the IEP team told us, it sounds like we don't need a diagnosis or evaluation to get a 504, we just need to get a note from the doctor saying that the accommodations would be beneficial for our child.

And as far as my husband is concerned, I did bring it. up to discuss tonight, and surprisingly, he was fine with it. Maybe because he also didn't really know what a 504 was. Generally, his thinking was, if all we needed was a doctor's note to have our child sit in front of the class and that's helpful for our child, then why not. I guess we will find out for sure if that is all that is required, or if the doctor will want to do an evaluation - because that might be another story and my husband will probably not be as keen on that.

I appreciate your insight about the value of the neuropsych evaluation and developmental pediatrician. It was something I had considered for a while, and brought up with my husband before. But he was very against it so I had tabled it - but that's good information to have.