Two spouses: a play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

I wouldn’t adopt a dog with that person. When he offers to babysit, observe how he cares for children several times, of different ages. Start there.

“But he would never offer to babysit…”

I wouldn’t adopt a dog with that person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

Weddings are planned by couples not their parents. If your parents plan it you were probably too young to marry in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

Weddings are planned by couples not their parents. If your parents plan it you were probably too young to marry in the first place.

Wrong. Usually the wedding is in the hometown where the brides parents live so they inevitably are able vet the cakes, food, bands, photographers, florists, hotels more easily than flying in a bunch of times.

Our engagement party and wedding spanned three countries so yeah, both sides helped with planning, and a bit with funding. We were 32 yo.

[Anonymous]

There’s only one person who has freedom with no responsibilities.

A baby.

Son, you’re fighting for your right, to be a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

Weddings are planned by couples not their parents. If your parents plan it you were probably too young to marry in the first place.

Wrong. Usually the wedding is in the hometown where the brides parents live so they inevitably are able vet the cakes, food, bands, photographers, florists, hotels more easily than flying in a bunch of times.

Our engagement party and wedding spanned three countries so yeah, both sides helped with planning, and a bit with funding. We were 32 yo.

Other PP

The wedding planning topic was raised in the context of examples of occasions where men can be observed for their competency, capability, maturity - someone reliably demonstrating forever relationship material and worthy of reproduction and raising children, independently of his wife, should the wife become unable.

Whether or not wedding planning is an opportunity to observe a potential parent's competence is irrelevant. If you are not seeing the examples, for any reason, Red Flag. Do Not Proceed.

Outlier cases where men demonstrate and 180 are contained in the "Not all. Most." observation. Most, not all, marriages involving unfit men are men whom I would not have fostered a dog with based on the pre-marriage observations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

Weddings are planned by couples not their parents. If your parents plan it you were probably too young to marry in the first place.

Wrong. Usually the wedding is in the hometown where the brides parents live so they inevitably are able vet the cakes, food, bands, photographers, florists, hotels more easily than flying in a bunch of times.

Our engagement party and wedding spanned three countries so yeah, both sides helped with planning, and a bit with funding. We were 32 yo.

This sounds like a cultural issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Most people I know in this situation, this is exactly the case.

Not all. Most.

Weddings are planned by the brides family and often the grooms family. It is not an exercise in How the Dude Cares or Planning Skills, unless he really takes charge of a few areas and knocks it out of the park - like finds the best band available or a cool outing the day before or knows wine cases to buy or loves making invitationsz

Most dud guy marriages we see are a guy with. Job who masked jsut enough to get married, whilst saying all the right things but not having any examples. Yes I want kids, yes I want a hisue and yard, yes I want you. Then it happened and Poof, he retreated into seclusion and shutdown mode. All he could handle was showtime at work.

Your use of "whilst" gives you away.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

And the reality is those PP's are imposing their judgment of what is "good for the family". Suppose the husbands said, I wish my wife would cut out all of the unnecessary crap and pick up some extra hours at work for the family. The kids don't need all of these extras; they'll be fine. They would be apoplectic. Yet somehow their judgments of how their husbands should "better" use their time "for the family" supersedes his. And, of course, you know that they would complain nonstop if husband was underemployed and funds to underwrite their dream lifestyle were lacking. These are just the sort of people who would complain no matter what.

My husband makes plenty of money and has decided his time is better spent at work rather than trying to DIY a leaky toilet or repairing dry wall. He's more than happy to pay someone who can do it right and not waste his time on it. That's the tradeoff we make. I handle the bulk of the kid stuff although he reads the school emails and will ask if I'm aware of this or that. He also does a lot of chauffeuring kids around. But he will never shop for the red dress or drop everything to get cookies. It works for us.

Can he tell when a toilet needs fixing?
Does he tell someone or call the repairman?
Does he arrange the repair time and let them in?
Does he pay the repair and look over the work?

Or does he see a leaky toilet or clogged drain in his very own home, and say nothing and do nothing?
Thats what I’m dealing with- and he “works” 5am-6pm at home and then drinks and watches TV from 6-9pm before crashing on the sofa. He has a 10pm alarm set on his phone to wake up and go upstairs to bed.

Is he underemployed or not? The tradeoff has to be a lot of money to make up the difference. Yours doesn't sound like he's bringing home the bacon at a high powered well paying job. Big difference.

You are missing the point.

If a high income but uninvolved dad can’t tell something or someone is broken or in need, and thus does nothing, then problem(s) will snowball.

Nothing to do with underemployed or not.
Has to do with paying attention, giving a damn and effort when at home.

This

It’s about giving a damn. And showing that you do.

And who is the arbiter of how to appropriately show you "give a damn"? Lemme guess: you?

Easy. List examples here of your husband demonstrating “giving a damn” about his wife and kids.

Here I’ll start:
- Showed up at the concert!?!
- Got on the plane to gramdma’s!?!
- ate Thanksgiving dinner with everyone!?!
- picked out a movie to watch every night of the week!?!

Why did you marry and have kids with this person? You're having your own little meltdown in here talking about something only tangentially related to the OP.

So you are blaming the wife for not having clairvoyance to know what her husband would be like when they have children? That's like blaming a rape victim on what they were wearing

It's not clairvoyance. It's being a good judge of character. And yes, if you are a bad judge of character, or you get married for whatever reason despite the signs of real character flaws, then you get what you get. I'm not sure why we have to coddle and feel sorry for people like that.

I'll bet this guy who isn't involved in the details also never planned a date, vacation, didn't do much wedding planning, or anything else the hapless fiancee might have noticed much earlier in the relationship. Then 3 kids later she decides he's kind of a dud. The writing was on the wall.

Duh.

He doesn’t care about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s only one person who has freedom with no responsibilities.

A baby.

Son, you’re fighting for your right, to be a baby.

Love it and hate it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This play needs a crisis and resolution.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

Are you really this dumb or are you being purposefully obtuse? The point is that not everyone already has a green shirt or a red dress. Neither of my daughters has either of those things - they aren't colors they like to wear. So yeah, my kids can pick out the green shirt from the closet if it's there, but they can't drive themselves to the mall to purchase one if it's not.

Why is a red dress necessary for caroling?

How would wearing an existing article of clothing prevent the caroling?

And does this child even want to sing to old people?

You're using strawmen here.

No it's actually a valid follow-up question to your response:

"The point is that not everyone already has a green shirt or a red dress. "

Why is a red dress required for old people home caroling? If procuring red dresses is a burden, why is the caroling venue that requires dress procurement an oblation? I've does caroling without specific outfit and cookie requirements. The children were not deprived of medical care, as a previous poster insinuated.

I mean, that's great I guess that you have multiple options for caroling that include those with dress code requirements and food obligations and those that don't and you can choose the one that best suits your needs. That scenario is ridiculous, I hope you can see that.

OP's problem is that her kid need a red dress and cookies for the caroling that was offered to her. Arguing about the necessity for the red dress is completely missing the point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

You just think you have all the answers! But oops! No red dress. Or that green shirt from last year is now 2 sizes too small. What now super mom?

Then either their dad or I buy one or take them to buy it. You do have to do somethings for kids because they are kids. Were you under the impression that you birth them and then magically stuff just happens for 18 years?

Maybe you just have undiagnosed ADHD so basic things are very challenging for you

Nobody says it's hard. But you seem stuck on these very simple tasks. But in a day there are so many very simple tasks. Someone has to do them. And husbands would say they are focused on many other tasks just not the buying shirt tasks. For my house our division of labor is pretty even but no, my husband doesn't have to do the shirt but he is leaving work early today to take the car for an oil change.

I just had AI tally our last five years of Amazon packages and costs. For Share of Mind sake.

Things I ordered, by quantity:
65% for the kids (bday presents, clothes costume, sports stuff, school materials)
30% for the house (snacks, kitchen items, decor, lawn/pest stuff)
5% for me (cosmetics on sale, snakca)

Things my husband ordered, by quantity):
5% for kids (usually returned, wasn’t listening)
90% for himself (clothes/shoes, electronics, 5+ shavers a year & forgets to pack them)
5% for the house (weird electronics or lights sitting in a pile now)

Dollar value and quantity value vastly ordered by me. Tho his random electronics add up big time (roomba, etc).

Ok? Amazon won't quantify for me the mental labor of dealing with the income taxes, car maintenance, investment management, and all the other things in our household division of labor. While shopping for the shirts and bday presents is annoying I don't want to take on the other tasks so it works for us and more or less evens out.

The crux of the problem is ONE parent will not or cannot see the family’s needs and proactively fulfill them — whether it’s the school’s stated concert attire for a kid, or no more cereal left, or a sick child needing medicine, emotional support of a teen.

Then everything falls onto the OTHER more functional parent, who also still works fulltime, can get an oil change every 5k miles or two years, rebalance a PA, fix a leaky toilet, and meal plan, etc.

I mean what good is knowing how to fix a leaky toilet if you’re too lazy to walk by said leaky toilet and do something about it asap or later that day. You need a royal invitation from your wife?

I’m sorry your husband is like that but don’t presume everyone is reading and nodding along.

DP. A lot of women have this issue with their husbands. It's understandable that we would seek to commiserate somewhere. That's what is happening here.

What I don't understand is why there are apparently so many women with husbands who are not like this who need to devote time to this thread and expressing disbelief that any men are like this, or claiming it's just one or something. It's obviously not. It's a trope for a reason.

Trying to convince everyone that buying the dress and cookies is the biggest problem in a marriage is why you’re getting such push back. Men have figured out that this is nonsense, women either want to do this or don’t like the way their husbands compete these non essential tasks and then want to martyr themselves over it. It’s hard to muster up a lot of sympathy over this. Just drop the rope. Send the kid with whatever she has in her closet that’s close enough. Let the cookies go. It doesn’t really matter.

What if your kid tells you it matters?

FWIW, I'm a woman who works full-time and I do find certain things to be stupid wastes of time and therefore just don't do them. However, if my child cared about something, I would ignore the fact that I think it's dumb and would probably do it for them. Because that's part of being a parent. So I'm a little surprised that you think YOUR opinion is the only one that matters. You must not work either, because every job I've ever had has some parts that I don't think need to be done but do them nonetheless. It's called life.

Not really. Maybe in a lot of circles around here, with parents who work a lot and tend to make up for it by being overly indulgent, but you tell your kid that the skirt she already has will have to work. End of story. Your kid will grow up fine, and probably even better because she won't think the world revolves around her, or that she doesn't have to do things just because others are doing it. I really hate when schools do crap like this. It stresses out parents, even more so if they don't have a lot of disposable income.

You know what's not fun? Sitting around in the hot August sun watching a bunch of three-year olds try to kick a soccer ball. And yet millions of parents provide their children with this exact experience all the time. You know what else isn't fun? Schlepping to Target to buy a birthday gift for a kid your child doesn't know well and then wrapping said gift and then driving 45 minutes to deliver your kid to a smelly trampoline park for a party. And yet millions of parents provide their children with this exact experience all the time. Are all those parents indulgent and those children spoiled? I doubt it. Parents do things for their kids that they don't want to do all the time. And honestly, if you don't feel like you've ever done anything for your child like that, then I feel sorry for your kids. And no, I'm not overly indulgent or trying to impress anyone or keep up with the Joneses. But I do realize that the things kids need aren't necessarily the things I would always like to be doing. But being a parent requires being selfless sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I mean, that's great I guess that you have multiple options for caroling that include those with dress code requirements and food obligations and those that don't and you can choose the one that best suits your needs. That scenario is ridiculous, I hope you can see that.

OP's problem is that her kid need a red dress and cookies for the caroling that was offered to her. Arguing about the necessity for the red dress is completely missing the point.

You just made that up.

And, it's relevant to the point OP raised - separating necessary from unnecessary tasks is entirely appropriate when addressing the issue of "invent[ed] tasks" in the context of mental labor. If her wife was offloading work on her because she wanted to spin the yarn she was using to hand-knit the dress, this is fair game in terms of how tasks are prioritized and divided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

Are you really this dumb or are you being purposefully obtuse? The point is that not everyone already has a green shirt or a red dress. Neither of my daughters has either of those things - they aren't colors they like to wear. So yeah, my kids can pick out the green shirt from the closet if it's there, but they can't drive themselves to the mall to purchase one if it's not.

Why is a red dress necessary for caroling?

How would wearing an existing article of clothing prevent the caroling?

And does this child even want to sing to old people?

You're using strawmen here.

That's not what a strawman is.

And the PP raises a good point. OP is all bent out of shape that her DH isn't helping with something that is not all that important. They can teach the kid not to care about stupid stuff like that. Or if it is so important to OP to go along with the dumb thing from the school, she can do it herself. But why should her priorities control?

A strawman argument is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone misrepresents an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack. Instead of engaging with the actual argument, the person creates a distorted, exaggerated, or fabricated version of it (the "straw man") and then refutes that weaker version, making their own position appear more reasonable. This tactic is a form of dishonest debate that distracts from the original point.

That is exactly what is being done here. The issue isn't whether or not a child would be able to sing in a blue dress versus a red one. So making that the focus of your argument is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

You just think you have all the answers! But oops! No red dress. Or that green shirt from last year is now 2 sizes too small. What now super mom?

Then either their dad or I buy one or take them to buy it. You do have to do somethings for kids because they are kids. Were you under the impression that you birth them and then magically stuff just happens for 18 years?

Maybe you just have undiagnosed ADHD so basic things are very challenging for you

Nobody says it's hard. But you seem stuck on these very simple tasks. But in a day there are so many very simple tasks. Someone has to do them. And husbands would say they are focused on many other tasks just not the buying shirt tasks. For my house our division of labor is pretty even but no, my husband doesn't have to do the shirt but he is leaving work early today to take the car for an oil change.

I just had AI tally our last five years of Amazon packages and costs. For Share of Mind sake.

Things I ordered, by quantity:
65% for the kids (bday presents, clothes costume, sports stuff, school materials)
30% for the house (snacks, kitchen items, decor, lawn/pest stuff)
5% for me (cosmetics on sale, snakca)

Things my husband ordered, by quantity):
5% for kids (usually returned, wasn’t listening)
90% for himself (clothes/shoes, electronics, 5+ shavers a year & forgets to pack them)
5% for the house (weird electronics or lights sitting in a pile now)

Dollar value and quantity value vastly ordered by me. Tho his random electronics add up big time (roomba, etc).

Ok? Amazon won't quantify for me the mental labor of dealing with the income taxes, car maintenance, investment management, and all the other things in our household division of labor. While shopping for the shirts and bday presents is annoying I don't want to take on the other tasks so it works for us and more or less evens out.

The crux of the problem is ONE parent will not or cannot see the family’s needs and proactively fulfill them — whether it’s the school’s stated concert attire for a kid, or no more cereal left, or a sick child needing medicine, emotional support of a teen.

Then everything falls onto the OTHER more functional parent, who also still works fulltime, can get an oil change every 5k miles or two years, rebalance a PA, fix a leaky toilet, and meal plan, etc.

I mean what good is knowing how to fix a leaky toilet if you’re too lazy to walk by said leaky toilet and do something about it asap or later that day. You need a royal invitation from your wife?

I’m sorry your husband is like that but don’t presume everyone is reading and nodding along.

DP. A lot of women have this issue with their husbands. It's understandable that we would seek to commiserate somewhere. That's what is happening here.

What I don't understand is why there are apparently so many women with husbands who are not like this who need to devote time to this thread and expressing disbelief that any men are like this, or claiming it's just one or something. It's obviously not. It's a trope for a reason.

Trying to convince everyone that buying the dress and cookies is the biggest problem in a marriage is why you’re getting such push back. Men have figured out that this is nonsense, women either want to do this or don’t like the way their husbands compete these non essential tasks and then want to martyr themselves over it. It’s hard to muster up a lot of sympathy over this. Just drop the rope. Send the kid with whatever she has in her closet that’s close enough. Let the cookies go. It doesn’t really matter.

What if your kid tells you it matters?

FWIW, I'm a woman who works full-time and I do find certain things to be stupid wastes of time and therefore just don't do them. However, if my child cared about something, I would ignore the fact that I think it's dumb and would probably do it for them. Because that's part of being a parent. So I'm a little surprised that you think YOUR opinion is the only one that matters. You must not work either, because every job I've ever had has some parts that I don't think need to be done but do them nonetheless. It's called life.

Not really. Maybe in a lot of circles around here, with parents who work a lot and tend to make up for it by being overly indulgent, but you tell your kid that the skirt she already has will have to work. End of story. Your kid will grow up fine, and probably even better because she won't think the world revolves around her, or that she doesn't have to do things just because others are doing it. I really hate when schools do crap like this. It stresses out parents, even more so if they don't have a lot of disposable income.

You know what's not fun? Sitting around in the hot August sun watching a bunch of three-year olds try to kick a soccer ball. And yet millions of parents provide their children with this exact experience all the time. You know what else isn't fun? Schlepping to Target to buy a birthday gift for a kid your child doesn't know well and then wrapping said gift and then driving 45 minutes to deliver your kid to a smelly trampoline park for a party. And yet millions of parents provide their children with this exact experience all the time. Are all those parents indulgent and those children spoiled? I doubt it. Parents do things for their kids that they don't want to do all the time. And honestly, if you don't feel like you've ever done anything for your child like that, then I feel sorry for your kids. And no, I'm not overly indulgent or trying to impress anyone or keep up with the Joneses. But I do realize that the things kids need aren't necessarily the things I would always like to be doing. But being a parent requires being selfless sometimes.

Thank gawd elementary school is only 5 or so years in duration.

You can do it PP! Get your child exposure to lots of things and make tons of friends.