New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

then the boxes should be more specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

The reality of TJ is that the VAST majority of its Black population is of relatively recent African extraction - as few Black kids as there are, the number of African-Americans, in the sense of families having been here for generations, is microscopic. But to be fair, life has been pretty horrible for most of the African diaspora at the hands of white people for some time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

then the boxes should be more specific.

Oh, no doubt. They should be MUCH more specific and in particular should disaggregate at the very least between those of East Asian and those of South Asian descent. Especially in this area, the economic advantages possessed by the recent South Asian migrants DWARF those possessed by those from, say, Korea/China/Vietnam, many of whom have been in America for a good generation longer at least..... which is why you see the "Asian" population at TJ skew overwhelmingly Indian in the past dozen years.

Mark my words - we wouldn't be having this conversation right now had you not seen the mass migration from India to the Dulles corridor in response to the tech boom and the prestige of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

The easy way is to claim hispanic ancestry. Believe it or not there is a country in south america that is 35% south asian, and a decent sized japanese population in brazil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

then the boxes should be more specific.

Oh, no doubt. They should be MUCH more specific and in particular should disaggregate at the very least between those of East Asian and those of South Asian descent. Especially in this area, the economic advantages possessed by the recent South Asian migrants DWARF those possessed by those from, say, Korea/China/Vietnam, many of whom have been in America for a good generation longer at least..... which is why you see the "Asian" population at TJ skew overwhelmingly Indian in the past dozen years.

Mark my words - we wouldn't be having this conversation right now had you not seen the mass migration from India to the Dulles corridor in response to the tech boom and the prestige of TJ.

Indians are the latest wave of "high performing" immigrants. I recall Japanese being in those shoes in the 90s. I'm sure Koreans and Chinese had their time, and the Jews before that. If it was not Indians at TJ, it would have been a mix of East Asians who'd have taken those spots, not other groups. And yes, we may not be having this conversation because East Asians are likely more "accepted" because of their skin color vs. South Asians..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

I mean.... morals? The fear of very public humiliation and shaming?

Application information is shared with the TJ liaison at each middle school, so my guess is if they see something amiss they're probably going to let the Admissions Office know about it. As for what the consequences would be, I mean who knows.

If a slightly higher chance at admission to TJ is so important to you that you're willing to lie about your identity..... you have serious problems and you might need help.

and? It's not like there isn't a sizable Indian population in any African country that used to be part of the British empire. If those families emigrate to the US they could self identify as African American. I had an Afrikaner friend in college who checked the African American box to apply, he just thought it was a sick joke

They shouldn't though.. That's the point. African American box (and associated benefits) should be reserved for descendants of slaves. They need much more than reparations. A recent African immigrant (Black Nigerian, African Indian or Afrikaner) or their progeny should not be allowed to check that box.

then the boxes should be more specific.

That's one way to do it.. The method doesn't matter but the end result should only benefit "native" Blacks and Native Americans (IMHO). Other races were impacted, I understand that, but not as much as those two groups. The third groups should be kids who are from poor families regardless of race. If we were to set aside a certain number of seats across the board at ALL schools for these three groups (say 6-15%) and the rest should be open competition for everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

On that note, why can white Europeans (non-Latino) with parents or grandparents who lived in Spain get an admissions boost for being Hispanic?

I think you have it backwards, that Hispanic refers to Western Hemisphere, while Latino refers to Spain. 'Latino' is a word in Spanish and Portuguese. Perhaps even French Caribbeans should be included.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

On that note, why can white Europeans (non-Latino) with parents or grandparents who lived in Spain get an admissions boost for being Hispanic?

I think you have it backwards, that Hispanic refers to Western Hemisphere, while Latino refers to Spain. 'Latino' is a word in Spanish and Portuguese. Perhaps even French Caribbeans should be included.

PP had it correct. Hispanic (SPAIN) is for those of European descent. Latino (LATIN AMERICA) is for those of Latin American or South American heritage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

On that note, why can white Europeans (non-Latino) with parents or grandparents who lived in Spain get an admissions boost for being Hispanic?

I think you have it backwards, that Hispanic refers to Western Hemisphere, while Latino refers to Spain. 'Latino' is a word in Spanish and Portuguese. Perhaps even French Caribbeans should be included.

PP had it correct. Hispanic (SPAIN) is for those of European descent. Latino (LATIN AMERICA) is for those of Latin American or South American heritage.

Besides the point. What's the answer to her question "why can white Europeans (non-Latino) with parents or grandparents who lived in Spain get an admissions boost for being Hispanic?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what prevents an Asian self-identifying as Black or Hispanic when applying to get the Black or Hispanic "boost"? Are they going to look at the skin color and say that the "color tone" is not right?

On that note, why can white Europeans (non-Latino) with parents or grandparents who lived in Spain get an admissions boost for being Hispanic?

I think you have it backwards, that Hispanic refers to Western Hemisphere, while Latino refers to Spain. 'Latino' is a word in Spanish and Portuguese. Perhaps even French Caribbeans should be included.

PP had it correct. Hispanic (SPAIN) is for those of European descent. Latino (LATIN AMERICA) is for those of Latin American or South American heritage.

The dictionary definition of Hispanic is “ relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries, especially those of Latin America.” It’s absurd that you have to know unwritten rules in order to check the correct box

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

+1. This lawyer who wrote the Hill op-Ed piece is either a staggeringly poor lawyer or a staggeringly brilliant businesswoman. These families are going to end up paying gobs and gobs of legal fees - both their own and FCPS’ if the case is even heard - and it’s only going to get worse the further up they appeal.

And for what? If you’re the type of kid who is helped by the old admissions process, you’re also the type of kid whose college admissions prospects will be hurt by going to TJ over your base school. It just doesn’t add up.

They are taking a stand against discrimination against them that is getting worse and worse. You would have told Rosa Parks she was wasting her time.

It’s not discrimination to remove a flawed metric that has little predictive value and conveys a demonstrable advantage to a particular cohort. It’s not discrimination to end de facto segregation.

Let’s end the de facto segregation of judges and prosecutors by increasing Asian representation by instituting a lottery system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

+1. This lawyer who wrote the Hill op-Ed piece is either a staggeringly poor lawyer or a staggeringly brilliant businesswoman. These families are going to end up paying gobs and gobs of legal fees - both their own and FCPS’ if the case is even heard - and it’s only going to get worse the further up they appeal.

And for what? If you’re the type of kid who is helped by the old admissions process, you’re also the type of kid whose college admissions prospects will be hurt by going to TJ over your base school. It just doesn’t add up.

They are taking a stand against discrimination against them that is getting worse and worse. You would have told Rosa Parks she was wasting her time.

It’s not discrimination to remove a flawed metric that has little predictive value and conveys a demonstrable advantage to a particular cohort. It’s not discrimination to end de facto segregation.

Let’s end the de facto segregation of judges and prosecutors by increasing Asian representation by instituting a lottery system.

I’m okay with that. Now if we were to respond with how the opposition to reform responds, they would say:

“You’re anti-Black!”

“If they want to be judges they just need to work harder! Their families don’t value the legal system enough!”

“You just want the judges to be majority white. You want to make judges white again!”

Do you see how stupid those statements sound?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

+1. This lawyer who wrote the Hill op-Ed piece is either a staggeringly poor lawyer or a staggeringly brilliant businesswoman. These families are going to end up paying gobs and gobs of legal fees - both their own and FCPS’ if the case is even heard - and it’s only going to get worse the further up they appeal.

And for what? If you’re the type of kid who is helped by the old admissions process, you’re also the type of kid whose college admissions prospects will be hurt by going to TJ over your base school. It just doesn’t add up.

They are taking a stand against discrimination against them that is getting worse and worse. You would have told Rosa Parks she was wasting her time.

It’s not discrimination to remove a flawed metric that has little predictive value and conveys a demonstrable advantage to a particular cohort. It’s not discrimination to end de facto segregation.

Let’s end the de facto segregation of judges and prosecutors by increasing Asian representation by instituting a lottery system.

I’m okay with that. Now if we were to respond with how the opposition to reform responds, they would say:

“You’re anti-Black!”

“If they want to be judges they just need to work harder! Their families don’t value the legal system enough!”

“You just want the judges to be majority white. You want to make judges white again!”

Do you see how stupid those statements sound?

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overwhelming public evidence exists that the new TJ admissions process was adopted with the purpose of disadvantaging Asian-American students and reducing Asian American enrollment at TJ. As such, these changes violate the Equal Protection Clause.

Helping URMs is a noble goal, but you cannot be biased against Asian Americans in the process. The board essentially gerrymandered the application process to kneecap Asian Americans. The intent is clear.

The application process needs to be redesigned by a board that doesn't hold stereotypes against Asian Americans. The board didn't even pretend to be neutral.

By definition increasing URM numbers at TJ will decrease Asian and White numbers- the math is really simple there. You're basically saying that desegregation is a per se violation of the equal protection clause because it necessarily disadvantages one race- good luck with that

+1. This lawyer who wrote the Hill op-Ed piece is either a staggeringly poor lawyer or a staggeringly brilliant businesswoman. These families are going to end up paying gobs and gobs of legal fees - both their own and FCPS’ if the case is even heard - and it’s only going to get worse the further up they appeal.

And for what? If you’re the type of kid who is helped by the old admissions process, you’re also the type of kid whose college admissions prospects will be hurt by going to TJ over your base school. It just doesn’t add up.

They are taking a stand against discrimination against them that is getting worse and worse. You would have told Rosa Parks she was wasting her time.

It’s not discrimination to remove a flawed metric that has little predictive value and conveys a demonstrable advantage to a particular cohort. It’s not discrimination to end de facto segregation.

Let’s end the de facto segregation of judges and prosecutors by increasing Asian representation by instituting a lottery system.

I’m okay with that. Now if we were to respond with how the opposition to reform responds, they would say:

“You’re anti-Black!”

“If they want to be judges they just need to work harder! Their families don’t value the legal system enough!”

“You just want the judges to be majority white. You want to make judges white again!”

Do you see how stupid those statements sound?

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.