Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

How do we know there is “no way just one was open.” It was the first day of the cruise. It was still at dock. Maybe all the windows had been closed for cleaning before new passengers arrived and only one was accidentally left open.

It might be easier to tell a window is open I’d there is a pattern of opened and closed ones, but if there was truly an entire wall of closed windows except for one, then I can see how the grandpa might not have expected it to be open. In fact, one of the prior pictures printed in an article showed all the surrounding windows as appearing closed minus this one gap.

Or maybe the footage will show the grandpa purposefully walked up to the window knowing it is open.

The fact is, we don’t know. I don’t think we should be skewering grandpa or the cruise line when we don’t know what happened.

I’m so heartsick for this family, I really am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do we know there is “no way just one was open.” It was the first day of the cruise. It was still at dock. Maybe all the windows had been closed for cleaning before new passengers arrived and only one was accidentally left open.

It might be easier to tell a window is open I’d there is a pattern of opened and closed ones, but if there was truly an entire wall of closed windows except for one, then I can see how the grandpa might not have expected it to be open. In fact, one of the prior pictures printed in an article showed all the surrounding windows as appearing closed minus this one gap.

Or maybe the footage will show the grandpa purposefully walked up to the window knowing it is open.

The fact is, we don’t know. I don’t think we should be skewering grandpa or the cruise line when we don’t know what happened.

I’m so heartsick for this family, I really am.

No one is skewering the cruise line, except the family’s lawyer. If there was “just one window open” it was still obvious due to the strong blue tint of all the windows. I get the feeling many posters her have never set foot on a cruise ship (per the DCUM anti-cruise sentiment) and have no clue what they are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, no one believes this is what happened, not even you.

I don't have an opinion. These are possibilities. The facts will eventually speak for themselves. It sounds like there was video of this tragic incident, so investigators can see if only one window was open or not, who picked that one window, if they walked past other windows to get to it, if the grandfather casually swung the girl up onto the railing in a way that you wouldn't expect from someone knowing there was an open window 11 stories up, etc.

Even if only one window was open and without a tinted appearance, I could see someone thinking that the window had been broken and the pane had to be replaced with a clear one temporarily. Or even if every other window was clear versus tinted, I could see someone thinking that was a decorative pattern on a cruise ship.

Do you even hear yourself?? You absolutely “have an opinion.”

DP. This person you’ve quoted clearly has an open mind. He/she is s not stating an opinion. You on the other hand... I mean give it a rest. You aren’t winning anything here by belaboring your argument. No one knows the whole story here. It’s quite stupid to come to any conclusions at this point.

+1. DDP here. These are alternative hypotheses people are presenting. If you're in an analytical field you're familiar with these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

Oh, good, the 1Ls are here.

[Anonymous]

If it was the only window open, the breeze you’d feel on the 11th deck while docked at the port would have been even more obvious than if every other window had been open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story has changed at least three times. Now the parents are blaming the cruise ship.

Poor baby!

This whole thing is just godawful. I can't imagine how terrible the parents and grandparents feel, and I'm sure it helps to have someone to blame. That said, the idea that the children's play area was on the top-most level of the ship and had a glass-free opening that a kid could climb to (not what happened here, I'm aware, but if grandpa lifted her that high I'm imagining that a bigger kid could also climb that high) seems incredibly unsafe. I'd be interested to see a picture of this area.

Same. I just can’t picture the scene at all. Anyone have an example of what the railing looks like?

The level of the window that was open looks lower than I expected - not even waist high. I'm not saying grandpa wasn't also to blame but I'm seriously surprised another kid hasn't gotten hurt with an attractive nuisance like that right there.

Oh, good, the 1Ls are here.

It’s not below waist high. It’s chest height.

It’s amazing how so many people have an opinion about it when there are others who know facts telling them their opinion doesn’t match reality.

If you’ve never been on a cruise ship, go watch some YouTube videos.

And yes, if an older child or adult was so inclined then they could get a chair and possibly climb out the window before anyone could stop them. They could also throw themselves down a flight of stairs or over any balcony or stab their internal organs out with a dinner knife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a reason all the windows are glass all the way to the floor. You don't need to pick up your kid to let them see over, they can look out the window with their feet on the ground.

Another reason the grandfather's story makes no sense. She could have toddler banged from the ground just like she did at the hockey rink. The only difference between her ground view and the ledge was the LACK of a tinted window in place.

I thinking he went for that window specifically and she slipped out of his grasp. Her father/his son-in-law was a cop. He should be asking his FIL pointed questions instead of taking pictures of the 'crime' scene.

And if grandpa did pick her up on purpose should he be prosecuted? To what end? The man is going to live with guilt for the rest of his life, which may not be long. I could see an older person just wasting away after something like this. The heartbreak might kill him. He isn’t a danger to society. It doesn’t sound like he has a rap sheet of killing small kids. What would arresting him do?

This should stay a civil law matter between the family and the cruise line.

A) Neither of us said he should be arrested.

B) The whole point is there isn't a civil case at all. The family is blaming the cruise line when its the guardian's negligence at fault. They should get the body and go home quietly.

I think based on the multiple opinions on this thread alone, there is an open question as to whether the cruise ship met its duty of care. Even if found liable, this will hardly bankrupt the cruise line, but it may inspire them to improve safety measures. At the very least this is more than just a frivolous lawsuit. I know I have a lot of questions about the window height, common practices re: cruise ship window openings, proximity of the children's Play area, window tint coloring, etc., which are reasonable for litigation discovery.

The window height and proximity to the kids area aren't remotely reasonable. If the child had wandered over they would be - but she didn't. She was picked up and placed on the railing.

You are essentially trying to make the argument that the cruise line didn't meet its duty of care in this case because another accident might have happened (but didn't) and it wouldn;t have met the duty of care in that case, had the accident happened (which it didn't).

Go back to doc review, please.

[Anonymous]

If an open window is an “attractive nuisance” so is every balcony on the ship. GMAB.

[Anonymous]

Every statement the lawyer is making is misleading. I’ve also been on that ship with my kids. That area is not a “child area” it’s a general area.
I’m sure RC has rules about unattended children. They have rules about everything.
But what can you say when an adult is holding a child and then places the child in a window 11 stories up after going around a guard rail?
“Please do not place your children on the window ledges of an open window as they may fall out? Also please do not bang on the windows ...”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If an open window is an “attractive nuisance” so is every balcony on the ship. GMAB.

You pay a premium for balcony rooms and they are a big draw. I love them, but would be nervous having one with a child under 12. Or even really drunk cabinmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people think, in general, that parents are more lax on vacation? I am wondering if this played a part.

I dont think so. I'm more careful on vacation. New and unfamiliar environment.

I think, as some PPs have suggested, parents (in particular) can be much more lax on vacation. One example, if you kboww anyone that rents out a beachhouse, things get broken, usually by small children. Parents tend to care a little”differently” in vacation mode.

[Anonymous]

How many days into the trip were they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many days into the trip were they?

The ship hadn't even left the dock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many days into the trip were they?

The ship hadn't even left the dock.

So this family basically boarded this ship and before they could even get their bags unpacked, Grandpa had lifted his granddaughter onto an open window ledge where she plummeted to her death.

Crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many days into the trip were they?

The ship hadn't even left the dock.

So this family basically boarded this ship and before they could even get their bags unpacked, Grandpa had lifted his granddaughter onto an open window ledge where she plummeted to her death.

Crazy.

Yes. And to the PP, I have stayed in a balcony room with small children and felt 100% safe. Because I never lifted them up and propped them on the ledge.