Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

If the lawyer wasn’t making statements about this being the cruise ship’s fault, the narrative would likely be very different. I feel awful for that family and definitely have sympathy for grandpa. and hope that there is some quiet settlement with the cruise ship - enough to cover the counseling services they all need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people think, in general, that parents are more lax on vacation? I am wondering if this played a part.

I dont think so. I'm more careful on vacation. New and unfamiliar environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story affects none of you. And none of you affect the outcome of the story. You arguing makes no sense and only serves your selfish needs.

We are reacting to a news story put out there largely by the family's lawyer. If you don't like people talking about it, blame the lawyer.

Yep, the story would be old news already but for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people think, in general, that parents are more lax on vacation? I am wondering if this played a part.

I dont think so. I'm more careful on vacation. New and unfamiliar environment.

Same. I’m also not washing dishes, doing laundry, paying bills, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

A toddler died on a ship because she fell from an 11th story window. Who exactly would not
speculate how that happened?

People that have intellectually, emotionally and spiritually fulfilling lives?

spiritually fulfilling lol. If you’re so spiritually fulfilled why are you here tussling with us heathens?

Oh, I was just contemplating the sort of person who wouldn't speculate on a story like this. I'm the least spiritually fulfilled person on the planet,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

If the lawyer wasn’t making statements about this being the cruise ship’s fault, the narrative would likely be very different. I feel awful for that family and definitely have sympathy for grandpa. and hope that there is some quiet settlement with the cruise ship - enough to cover the counseling services they all need.

I don't think this incident warrants any kind of settlement. The cruise ship did nothing wrong and I certainly would not want to encourage any psychopath parents (or grandparents) from copycatting this tragedy in the hopes of padding their own pockets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

The question is who is to blame for this horrific accident. Is this the sort of thing that could just happen to anyone? Was it a mechanical or design flaw that caused this to happen? The answer is - no.

This accident was 100% caused by the grandfather. He did something that no one in their right mind would do and his granddaughter is now dead. I'm sure that he is beyond devastated and I hope that one day his family will be able to forgive him and that he can one day forgive himself. But blaming RC for it is not right. Remember that real people work behind RC and are responsible for passenger safety. Telling those employees that this is their fault is just plain wrong. They could not have anticipated this tragedy.

But newer Royal Caribbean ships don't have windows that open this same way, so maybe a design flaw did contribute:

"....Freedom of the Seas ship, which made its maiden voyage in 2006, is older, and none of the newer ships have similar windows that can be opened in the same way."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/us/cruise-ship-toddler-attorney-press-conference/index.html

Statements by the family's lawyer indicate that only one window was open in a wall of windows, not every other window like in a YouTube video that has been linked to in this thread. The photographs with the investigators also show just the one window open. Perhaps the windows weren't open in the alternating pattern yet because the ship was still docked, and someone had accidentally left only one window open when cleaning them. It could be that the little girl picked that window because she saw it was open, not realizing the danger, and the doting grandfather lifted her up as she wished.

I believe it is possible for an older person to be confused about whether there was glass or not, regardless of differences of color because of tinting. With all the new sights and sounds and the excitement of being in this new environment, lifting the girl up could have been a quick gesture done without analyzing all the windows and whether any were open or closed. In the back of the grandfather's mind may have been an assumption of a row of closed, secure windows.

We don't know if the grandfather may have been developing dementia, with confusion about windows as noted in the article below. My own mother walked into a glass wall in her 70s. I could completely see her being unaware that one window was open or that some were open and some closed. If we pointed it out to her and explained about the tinting and how you could tell, she would be surprised. If we tried to add that you could also tell because of wind and the feeling of fresh air from a specific window, she would be confused.

"People who have dementia and visual/perceptual impairments may walk into glass doors, so place stickers on them."
https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/home-care/info-2017/wandering-dementia-concerns-ag.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

The question is who is to blame for this horrific accident. Is this the sort of thing that could just happen to anyone? Was it a mechanical or design flaw that caused this to happen? The answer is - no.

This accident was 100% caused by the grandfather. He did something that no one in their right mind would do and his granddaughter is now dead. I'm sure that he is beyond devastated and I hope that one day his family will be able to forgive him and that he can one day forgive himself. But blaming RC for it is not right. Remember that real people work behind RC and are responsible for passenger safety. Telling those employees that this is their fault is just plain wrong. They could not have anticipated this tragedy.

But newer Royal Caribbean ships don't have windows that open this same way, so maybe a design flaw did contribute:

"....Freedom of the Seas ship, which made its maiden voyage in 2006, is older, and none of the newer ships have similar windows that can be opened in the same way."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/us/cruise-ship-toddler-attorney-press-conference/index.html

Statements by the family's lawyer indicate that only one window was open in a wall of windows, not every other window like in a YouTube video that has been linked to in this thread. The photographs with the investigators also show just the one window open. Perhaps the windows weren't open in the alternating pattern yet because the ship was still docked, and someone had accidentally left only one window open when cleaning them. It could be that the little girl picked that window because she saw it was open, not realizing the danger, and the doting grandfather lifted her up as she wished.

I believe it is possible for an older person to be confused about whether there was glass or not, regardless of differences of color because of tinting. With all the new sights and sounds and the excitement of being in this new environment, lifting the girl up could have been a quick gesture done without analyzing all the windows and whether any were open or closed. In the back of the grandfather's mind may have been an assumption of a row of closed, secure windows.

We don't know if the grandfather may have been developing dementia, with confusion about windows as noted in the article below. My own mother walked into a glass wall in her 70s. I could completely see her being unaware that one window was open or that some were open and some closed. If we pointed it out to her and explained about the tinting and how you could tell, she would be surprised. If we tried to add that you could also tell because of wind and the feeling of fresh air from a specific window, she would be confused.

"People who have dementia and visual/perceptual impairments may walk into glass doors, so place stickers on them."
https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/home-care/info-2017/wandering-dementia-concerns-ag.html

Come on, no one believes this is what happened, not even you.

[Anonymous]

Grandpa doesn’t look that old. There is probably one more item to the story: left glasses off, taking a medication, I’ll with something etc that caused such a tragic lack of judgment. The video will tell the simple story.
Also cruise ships are not American — they are owned in the Caribbean or Norway and follow those laws. You have to have a passport to go on that cruise. So a big American pay out is unlikely. I think the lawyer is not helping things.

[Anonymous]

There was probably a pop up rain shower that caused the crew to close the windows. When the rain lightened up, a guest opened the window to let some sea air in.

Grandpa, for reasons only he knows, then put his toddler grandchild on the edge of that open window where she fell to her death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Come on, no one believes this is what happened, not even you.

I don't have an opinion. These are possibilities. The facts will eventually speak for themselves. It sounds like there was video of this tragic incident, so investigators can see if only one window was open or not, who picked that one window, if they walked past other windows to get to it, if the grandfather casually swung the girl up onto the railing in a way that you wouldn't expect from someone knowing there was an open window 11 stories up, etc.

Even if only one window was open and without a tinted appearance, I could see someone thinking that the window had been broken and the pane had to be replaced with a clear one temporarily. Or even if every other window was clear versus tinted, I could see someone thinking that was a decorative pattern on a cruise ship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, no one believes this is what happened, not even you.

I don't have an opinion. These are possibilities. The facts will eventually speak for themselves. It sounds like there was video of this tragic incident, so investigators can see if only one window was open or not, who picked that one window, if they walked past other windows to get to it, if the grandfather casually swung the girl up onto the railing in a way that you wouldn't expect from someone knowing there was an open window 11 stories up, etc.

Even if only one window was open and without a tinted appearance, I could see someone thinking that the window had been broken and the pane had to be replaced with a clear one temporarily. Or even if every other window was clear versus tinted, I could see someone thinking that was a decorative pattern on a cruise ship.

Do you even hear yourself?? You absolutely “have an opinion.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

If the lawyer wasn’t making statements about this being the cruise ship’s fault, the narrative would likely be very different. I feel awful for that family and definitely have sympathy for grandpa. and hope that there is some quiet settlement with the cruise ship - enough to cover the counseling services they all need.

I don't think this incident warrants any kind of settlement. The cruise ship did nothing wrong and I certainly would not want to encourage any psychopath parents (or grandparents) from copycatting this tragedy in the hopes of padding their own pockets.

It’s a sick thought, but overwhelmed parents have done this sort of thing before. Left kids in cars or let them “wander off” near swimming pools or on camping trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, no one believes this is what happened, not even you.

I don't have an opinion. These are possibilities. The facts will eventually speak for themselves. It sounds like there was video of this tragic incident, so investigators can see if only one window was open or not, who picked that one window, if they walked past other windows to get to it, if the grandfather casually swung the girl up onto the railing in a way that you wouldn't expect from someone knowing there was an open window 11 stories up, etc.

Even if only one window was open and without a tinted appearance, I could see someone thinking that the window had been broken and the pane had to be replaced with a clear one temporarily. Or even if every other window was clear versus tinted, I could see someone thinking that was a decorative pattern on a cruise ship.

Do you even hear yourself?? You absolutely “have an opinion.”

DP. This person you’ve quoted clearly has an open mind. He/she is s not stating an opinion. You on the other hand... I mean give it a rest. You aren’t winning anything here by belaboring your argument. No one knows the whole story here. It’s quite stupid to come to any conclusions at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you are disgusting. A child died and a family is experiencing absolute hell right at this moment and some of you are getting way too worked up about what the grandpa was thinking. You literally have no idea. You are speculating and it’s gross. You’re slamming the lawyer but you are worse.

The question is who is to blame for this horrific accident. Is this the sort of thing that could just happen to anyone? Was it a mechanical or design flaw that caused this to happen? The answer is - no.

This accident was 100% caused by the grandfather. He did something that no one in their right mind would do and his granddaughter is now dead. I'm sure that he is beyond devastated and I hope that one day his family will be able to forgive him and that he can one day forgive himself. But blaming RC for it is not right. Remember that real people work behind RC and are responsible for passenger safety. Telling those employees that this is their fault is just plain wrong. They could not have anticipated this tragedy.

But newer Royal Caribbean ships don't have windows that open this same way, so maybe a design flaw did contribute:

"....Freedom of the Seas ship, which made its maiden voyage in 2006, is older, and none of the newer ships have similar windows that can be opened in the same way."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/us/cruise-ship-toddler-attorney-press-conference/index.html

Statements by the family's lawyer indicate that only one window was open in a wall of windows, not every other window like in a YouTube video that has been linked to in this thread. The photographs with the investigators also show just the one window open. Perhaps the windows weren't open in the alternating pattern yet because the ship was still docked, and someone had accidentally left only one window open when cleaning them. It could be that the little girl picked that window because she saw it was open, not realizing the danger, and the doting grandfather lifted her up as she wished.

I believe it is possible for an older person to be confused about whether there was glass or not, regardless of differences of color because of tinting. With all the new sights and sounds and the excitement of being in this new environment, lifting the girl up could have been a quick gesture done without analyzing all the windows and whether any were open or closed. In the back of the grandfather's mind may have been an assumption of a row of closed, secure windows.

We don't know if the grandfather may have been developing dementia, with confusion about windows as noted in the article below. My own mother walked into a glass wall in her 70s. I could completely see her being unaware that one window was open or that some were open and some closed. If we pointed it out to her and explained about the tinting and how you could tell, she would be surprised. If we tried to add that you could also tell because of wind and the feeling of fresh air from a specific window, she would be confused.

"People who have dementia and visual/perceptual impairments may walk into glass doors, so place stickers on them."
https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/home-care/info-2017/wandering-dementia-concerns-ag.html

The lawyer is misleading.

I was on that ship recently (got off it the morning of the accident). The entire deck 11 has those windows. There's no way just one was open. They are well spaced, but several are open. And it's obvious they are open. The place would be like a steam room if the windows weren't open.

I suspect the newer ships have no windows/just open railings.